New and need advices from the big boys

[talisk3r]

Hello everyone, I'm new on these forums but I've been following some of the threads for some time now.

I started making cider in february and wasn't really pleased with the result. It wasn't bad, but not as good as I thought it would be. I wanted to share my recipe and processes with you and get some advices on things I could do better the next time. Please keep in mind english is not my first language!

To make it short
- 1 gallon organic pasteurized apple juice
- Half a pack (5,5g) of Nottingham ale yeast
- 1/4 tps of pectic enzyme
- Original SG was 1,05

- Primary fermentation lasted 1 week and 2 days at 62-65F. No more bubbles after that.
- I racked off the cider into another gallon for secondary fermentation.

- Secondary fermentation (and maturation as well I guess) lasted 2 months at the same temperature.
- Final SG was 1,003

- I racked the cider in a clean jug to get it off its lees and bottle it.
- I added priming sugar in that jug beforehand. 4 tbs of cane sugar into 1/2 cup of water, boiling for 5 minutes and then cooled.

- I waited two weeks after bottling to let it carbonize.
- Cooling during a few hours and then drank it. (Well not all of it... of course )
- Everything was clean and sanitized, during every step.

It tasted ok as I said and it has a nice carbonation, but I found the alcohol taste to be too present, and it kind of lacked the apple and fruity taste.


My thoughts on what I could change the next time.
- Use less yeast
- Rack it another time so it doesnt stay on its lees for more than a month. I know some people are saying it doesn't matter. But from what I've read, it does. Anyway, it can't be bad.
- Let it mature longer, maybe one or two months more?
- Sweeten it a little before first fermentation, so as to have a higher final SG.
- Use fresh unpasteurized cider, which I'm looking forward to, somewhere in september!

Thanks a lot for the help!

Edit : added some more info

 

[pricelessbrewing]

A higher og will only cause more of the problems you mentioned. It'll drive the fg dowb more, since you're adding simple sugars, raise the alcohol taste, and lessen the apple flavor.

If you want it sweeten, less alcohol taste, and more apple flavor you need to backsweeten with some juice or concentrate. Which you can make via freezing and seperating the frozen high sugar juice from the water.

 

[madwilliamflint]

A higher og will only cause more of the problems you mentioned. It'll drive the fg dowb more, since you're adding simple sugars, raise the alcohol taste, and lessen the apple flavor.

If you want it sweeten, less alcohol taste, and more apple flavor you need to backsweeten with some juice or concentrate. Which you can make via freezing and seperating the frozen high sugar juice from the water.

*scribbles some notes*

Do you have a reference to some tips on freeze-concentrating like that? There have got to be some tricks kicking around because I always end up with a gigantic mess when I try it.

 

[talisk3r]

A higher og will only cause more of the problems you mentioned. It'll drive the fg dowb more, since you're adding simple sugars, raise the alcohol taste, and lessen the apple flavor.

If you want it sweeten, less alcohol taste, and more apple flavor you need to backsweeten with some juice or concentrate. Which you can make via freezing and seperating the frozen high sugar juice from the water.

Thanks for the tip. However, if I raise OG and stop fermentation to a higher FG, somewhere around 1,01, could I get a sweeter cider without needing to backsweeten it?

 

[ericbw]

Thanks for the tip. However, if I raise OG and stop fermentation to a higher FG, somewhere around 1,01, could I get a sweeter cider without needing to backsweeten it?

Yes. But how will you stop the fermentation?

 

[talisk3r]

Yes. But how will you stop the fermentation?

That's the hard part, especially for a newbee like me

But by racking and cold crashing it at the right FG. Hard thing would be to constantly take FG in a single gallon... I'm thinking about measuring SG and putting it back in the gallon so I'm not losing any cider, but that could be quite a mess.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

It's more difficult than it's worth. Just let it ride out, and backsweeten it. I have access to cheap concentrate, so I've never had to make my own but it seems pretty straight forward.

Put juice in container, freeze it. Leave room for expansion! Put container upside down, to slowly melt into another container. The water should melt last. You should get about 1/3 volume in the new container.
Repeat as necessary until you get the gravity and volume required.

 

[AnonyBrew]

A little flavor also tends to come back with age. (few months)

 

[talisk3r]

It's more difficult than it's worth. Just let it ride out, and backsweeten it. I have access to cheap concentrate, so I've never had to make my own but it seems pretty straight forward.

Put juice in container, freeze it. Leave room for expansion! Put container upside down, to slowly melt into another container. The water should melt last. You should get about 1/3 volume in the new container.
Repeat as necessary until you get the gravity and volume required.

That sounds great, but my fear is getting bottle bombs. Is it possible to backsweeten, bottle and carbonize safely?

 

[homebrewbeliever]

That sounds great, but my fear is getting bottle bombs. Is it possible to backsweeten, bottle and carbonize safely?

Well, you could backsweeten with unfermentable sugar... it won't give you any additional apple flavor, but it would sweeten the cider and you wouldn't have to worry about it getting overcarbonated. You can use lactose or splenda, or stevia. I would recommend using the lactose over the other two, as it is the least likely to contribute weird flavors to your beverage.

 

[homebrewbeliever]

Another option is that you can bottle in PET bottles. They are stronger than glass, and if they do explode, it is much less dangerous (although I wouldn't want to be holding one when it goes off). If you let your cider sit in secondary for a much longer time, you'll have less suspended yeast, so you'll leave behind a lot of the yeast when you rack the cider before bottling. After racking, you could add your apple juice concentrate and then bottle it. You can let it sit for a while to carbonate, but because you'll have left a lot of the yeast behind, it wont carbonate as quickly. After 3 weeks or so, open a bottle and test it. If it is carbonated well, then you can just stick all of the bottles in the fridge, which will dramatically slow down the yeast's activity (if not stopping it). As long as you keep the bottles cold, they won't continue to carbonate (unless you used a power yeast like EC-1118).

 

[talisk3r]

Another option is that you can bottle in PET bottles. They are stronger than glass, and if they do explode, it is much less dangerous (although I wouldn't want to be holding one when it goes off). If you let your cider sit in secondary for a much longer time, you'll have less suspended yeast, so you'll leave behind a lot of the yeast when you rack the cider before bottling. After racking, you could add your apple juice concentrate and then bottle it. You can let it sit for a while to carbonate, but because you'll have left a lot of the yeast behind, it wont carbonate as quickly. After 3 weeks or so, open a bottle and test it. If it is carbonated well, then you can just stick all of the bottles in the fridge, which will dramatically slow down the yeast's activity (if not stopping it). As long as you keep the bottles cold, they won't continue to carbonate (unless you used a power yeast like EC-1118).

Great advice, thanks!

 

[MindenMan]

I agree with the PET bottles, they are much more forgiving than glass. Glass bottle bombs. They make a bit of a pop and crunch. IF a PET bottle goes off, it sounds a gun shot as the internal pressure passes 150 psi. Does your juice come in a plastic bottle, or do you use concentrate? If your juice comes in some sort of a bottle, pour out 1/2 cup, add yeast, replace cap leaving it a tiny bit loose to let out fermentation bubbles.
I do things a little differently when making hard cider:I back sweeten with concentrate until I reach the level of sweetness I want, and then I add the priming dose. I have to pasteurize my hard cider to stop bottle bombs from happening, the cider will be at the sweetness level you want, and it will carbonated as well. Get a plastic soda bottle and fill it with hard cider. In a few days to a week or so, when the soda bottle get too hard to squeeze, or gives a little bit, at that point, after pasteurizing the other bottles, either drink the sample bottle as it is, or pasteurize it also. At least two weeks waiting before drinking, will improve flavor, longer is good too. Have you ever thought of making Apple Jack?

 

[talisk3r]

I agree with the PET bottles, they are much more forgiving than glass. Glass bottle bombs. They make a bit of a pop and crunch. IF a PET bottle goes off, it sounds a gun shot as the internal pressure passes 150 psi. Does your juice come in a plastic bottle, or do you use concentrate? If your juice comes in some sort of a bottle, pour out 1/2 cup, add yeast, replace cap leaving it a tiny bit loose to let out fermentation bubbles.
I do things a little differently when making hard cider:I back sweeten with concentrate until I reach the level of sweetness I want, and then I add the priming dose. I have to pasteurize my hard cider to stop bottle bombs from happening, the cider will be at the sweetness level you want, and it will carbonated as well. Get a plastic soda bottle and fill it with hard cider. In a few days to a week or so, when the soda bottle get too hard to squeeze, or gives a little bit, at that point, after pasteurizing the other bottles, either drink the sample bottle as it is, or pasteurize it also. At least two weeks waiting before drinking, will improve flavor, longer is good too. Have you ever thought of making Apple Jack?

I'll consider that, thanks.

And about apple jack, I don't really want to make a strong beverage. I prefer staying under 10 abv for the moment.