New 10 Gallon Herms! Pics!

[The Pol]

Uploaded more pics of my Brew Beast in my gallery... showing a little more detail on the HLT lid and such.

 

[JeffNYC]

If you have a minute, can you help me understand some basic construction issues here?

1) Re: heat exchange coil, does one really need to cut it? Or can one unscrew the garden hose connection and connect the QD to the existing pipe fitting? (I don't have tools to cut copper.)

2) Are the white rubber stoppers OK? Or should one use silicon? I would think rubber is not desirable in direct contact with hot water/wort.

3) What is the JB Weld for? Does one need to have advanced electrical skills to put this together? (Probably should have asked this first before getting interested in this system.)

4) Can you confirm you need a 1/2" elbow nipple from false bottom in mash tun? Right now I have 3/8", but thought that would restrict the flow too much.

 

[JeffNYC]

Tried to put all parts in, including valve assemblies and pump valves, maybe you can use this for the magazine. I know it's not exactly right, as I see you have an elbow connector at the top of the HLT. I have it in Excel, for Qty * Amt for a total cost:

Qty Item
1 Stand?
1 Megapot 10 gallon brew kettle, with spigot
1 Hurricane burner
2 10 gallon coolers
1 Johnson controller (A419)
1 March pump (809HS-PL)
1 25 foot 1/2" copper tubing coil
1 1" Thermowell stopper (or crimped corny pickup tube)
2 1" Solid stoppers
2 Thermometers
1 120v 1500w water heater element
1 JB Weld
1 Wire and plug for water heater element
1 1x SS 1" nut
1 1" PVC tubing (2"?)
1 1.25" hole saw
12 12 ft heat resistant tubing (1/2 ID)
6 [1/2"] stainless hose clamps
2 50915K328 2 Each Standard Brass Compression Tube Fitting, Adapter For 1/2" Tube Od X 1/2" Nptf Male Pipe
3 50785K94 3 Each Med-pressure Extruded Brass Thrd Pipe Fitting, 1/2" Pipe Size, Hex Coupling, 1-3/16" Length
7 6739K59 High Flow Hose Coupling For Coolant, Plug, 1/2" Nptf Male, 3/8"
6 6739K64 High Flow Hose Coupling For Coolant, Sleeve-lck Sckt X Barb, 3/8"cplg Sz,1/2"hose Id
1 6142K49 Ac Gearmotor W/fan, Face Mnt, 100 Rpm, 7 In-lbs Torque, 115 Vac
1 34935K66 Polypropylene Propeller With Shaft U-shaped Blade, 2-1/2" DIA.
1 6099K22 Stainless Steel One-piece Set-screw Coupling 5/16" Bore, 1" Length, 5/8" Od, Without Keyway
2 10095K12 Loc-Line Any-Which-Way Coolant Hose 1/2" ID, 12" Length W/ Connectors & Round Nozzles
2 1/2" x 1/2" FPT x Barb female adapter
2 A-836 1/2"MIP x 1 1/2" Brass pipe nipple
4 3/4" SS flat washer
4 1 1/8" OD x 5/8" ID rubber grommets
4 1/2" threaded ball valve
2 1/2" x 1/2" MPT x barb Male adapter
1 Teflon Tape (for all threads)
1 1/2" elbow barb with nut for false bottom

 

[slimer]

If you have a minute, can you help me understand some basic construction issues here?

1) Re: heat exchange coil, does one really need to cut it? Or can one unscrew the garden hose connection and connect the QD to the existing pipe fitting? (I don't have tools to cut copper.)

A pipe cutting tool is very inexpensive, maybe $4.

2) Are the white rubber stoppers OK? Or should one use silicon? I would think rubber is not desirable in direct contact with hot water/wort.

Why wouldn't they be ok?

3) What is the JB Weld for? Does one need to have advanced electrical skills to put this together? (Probably should have asked this first before getting interested in this system.)

JB Weld "sticks" two metal pieces together. It's like glue/epoxy for metals.

4) Can you confirm you need a 1/2" elbow nipple from false bottom in mash tun? Right now I have 3/8", but thought that would restrict the flow too much.

Many people use 3/8, but 1/2 just flows better.

 

[The Pol]

Tried to put all parts in, including valve assemblies and pump valves, maybe you can use this for the magazine. I know it's not exactly right, as I see you have an elbow connector at the top of the HLT. I have it in Excel, for Qty * Amt for a total cost:

Qty Item
1 Stand?
1 Megapot 10 gallon brew kettle, with spigot
1 Hurricane burner
2 10 gallon coolers
1 Johnson controller (A419)
1 March pump (809HS-PL)
1 25 foot 1/2" copper tubing coil
1 1" Thermowell stopper (or crimped corny pickup tube)
2 1" Solid stoppers
2 Thermometers
1 120v 1500w water heater element
1 JB Weld
1 Wire and plug for water heater element
1 1x SS 1" nut
1 1" PVC tubing (2"?)
1 1.25" hole saw
12 12 ft heat resistant tubing (1/2 ID)
6 [1/2"] stainless hose clamps
2 50915K328 2 Each Standard Brass Compression Tube Fitting, Adapter For 1/2" Tube Od X 1/2" Nptf Male Pipe
3 50785K94 3 Each Med-pressure Extruded Brass Thrd Pipe Fitting, 1/2" Pipe Size, Hex Coupling, 1-3/16" Length
7 6739K59 High Flow Hose Coupling For Coolant, Plug, 1/2" Nptf Male, 3/8"
6 6739K64 High Flow Hose Coupling For Coolant, Sleeve-lck Sckt X Barb, 3/8"cplg Sz,1/2"hose Id
1 6142K49 Ac Gearmotor W/fan, Face Mnt, 100 Rpm, 7 In-lbs Torque, 115 Vac
1 34935K66 Polypropylene Propeller With Shaft U-shaped Blade, 2-1/2" DIA.
1 6099K22 Stainless Steel One-piece Set-screw Coupling 5/16" Bore, 1" Length, 5/8" Od, Without Keyway
2 10095K12 Loc-Line Any-Which-Way Coolant Hose 1/2" ID, 12" Length W/ Connectors & Round Nozzles
2 1/2" x 1/2" FPT x Barb female adapter
2 A-836 1/2"MIP x 1 1/2" Brass pipe nipple
4 3/4" SS flat washer
4 1 1/8" OD x 5/8" ID rubber grommets
4 1/2" threaded ball valve
2 1/2" x 1/2" MPT x barb Male adapter
1 Teflon Tape (for all threads)
1 1/2" elbow barb with nut for false bottom

HOLY COW... truthfully since I have built this rig over the past couple years, and been through several versions, it is hard to tell EXACTLY what is in it

Still standing by on the magazine... not sure EXACTLY what they want to run if they do spotlight my rig.

 

[The Pol]

If you have a minute, can you help me understand some basic construction issues here?

1) Re: heat exchange coil, does one really need to cut it? Or can one unscrew the garden hose connection and connect the QD to the existing pipe fitting? (I don't have tools to cut copper.)

2) Are the white rubber stoppers OK? Or should one use silicon? I would think rubber is not desirable in direct contact with hot water/wort.

3) What is the JB Weld for? Does one need to have advanced electrical skills to put this together? (Probably should have asked this first before getting interested in this system.)

4) Can you confirm you need a 1/2" elbow nipple from false bottom in mash tun? Right now I have 3/8", but thought that would restrict the flow too much.

1) It needs to be cut... the tubing extending vertically to the garden hose fittings is #1 too tall and #2 soldered together near the ends making it impossible to make a nice tight fitting hole around the tubes where they exit the lid. I wanted to have the connections right above the lid and wanted to have 2 nice tight holes around the in and out tubes. Which, you cannot do without cutting the copper tubing. SMALL expense to get a tool, considering this rig cost me about $2000.

2) Well, I have used the gum stoppers for a couple years and not noticed anything off? IMHO they are fine, but as with any build, you are welcome to source different parts if yuo desire (silicone, SS etc...)

3) I have NO advanced electrical knowlege... none. My wife would say that I am more intelligent than the average guy on my street... but if you can read, you can build this. You just need to ask questions, that is how I did it. The JB weld is used for POTTING the electrical connections on the heating element. It has good dielectric properties and is capable of encasing the connections in a water and heat resistant block of epoxy.

4) You do not NEED 1/2" elbow from your false bottom. You are never going to use FULL PORT flow from the MLT anyway, right? All other plumbing I would suggest being 1/2".

If you are building and have ANY questions, I am more than happy to answer them. This build is a little complex and it is hard for anyone to sift through hundreds of posts to pull out the information that they want or need.

 

[gsutton]

Hey Super Pol,

I originally ordered 1/4" loc-line, so I didn't even open the package. I finally got the 1/2" and tried to put it together. Did I get the wrong size grey coupler for the beginning of the line, or was yours impossible to snap together? I actually ruined the first blue piece and had to remove it. The 4 blue sections snapped together and the orange tip as well. If you found a trick let me know otherwise I must have the wrong size.

 

[The Pol]

TRICK:

BOIL THE TWO PARTS FIRST! They are nearly impossible to lock together!

 

[gsutton]

You are my hero

 

[The Pol]

"Its a Cinderella Story...."

 

[gsutton]

Classic!!!

 

[JeffNYC]

What is the downside of setting up the temperature controller probe to the mash tun, either input or output (input probably better to avoid over shooting). I was thinking this would avoid the need to monitor the HLT and for a HLT stirrer, since the output of through the heat exchanger would reflect the result of the heated water (regardless of hot spots)? Would this be an issue during sparging with the potential for hot spots? If this would work, what components can one use to connect the probe to monitor the mash/water temperature at the exit of the heat exchange (for the probe, another one could be used for the output of the mash tun)? Like McMaster 3957K65?

Any thoughts on the Ranco ETC-111000-000? Did you get yours prewired or did you wire it yourself? If one can wire in the water heater, presumably one can do this also.

 

[JeffNYC]

For infusion mashes, you get 2F per minute? Do you find that adequate? Looking to start buying parts now that I have a pretty good list.

 

[The Pol]

Sorry, looks like I missed a couple posts here.

#1. The downwside of placing your temp probe in the MLT, or anywhere too far down line in the process form the HEX is that you increase the chance of an overshoot. People generally have excellent results when placing the temp probe in the HEX, or at the outlet of the HEX. There is really no reason to have the temp probe in the MLT, it is not as accurate at measuring wort temp there.

#2. You still want a way to stir the HLT water. If you do not, you will have a less conrollable HEX. You will have hot and cold spots and temperature stratification that you cannot control. When the temp is homogenous, you KNOW that there is even heating and you KNOW that the heat from the element is being effectively transferred to the coil. Otherwise the coil will create a cold spot, the element a hot spot... this reducing your level of control in the system. IMHO

#3. You could use a "t" and a compression fitting or something to get the probe into the output flow of the HEX. There is really little reason to measure the temp of the MLT output, if you are controlling the temp of the input.

#4. I dont know anything about the Ranco, but I did get my JC A419 pre-wired. I would suggest not hard wiring anything into anything. My A419 PLUGS into my control panel and my element PLUGS into my A419. This helps to make the parts more user friendly when cleaning, repairing, updating, moving, anything.

 

[The Pol]

For infusion mashes, you get 2F per minute? Do you find that adequate? Looking to start buying parts now that I have a pretty good list.

Okay, well when I start my system it takes about 90 minutes to get the full HLT up to temp. Strike + 15F... There is a reason for the smaller element, it is lengh, ammount of water required to keep it submerged...etc. Works for ME, but because I heat that tank while eating breakfast and getting things ready.

If I step mash... it is generally a protien rest so I simply mash in at 122F. During that rest, 20 min, I DO NOT recirculate and heat my HLT to 158F or so. Then then the protien rest is complete, I recirculate to heat the mash. This is all that you can do, since OVERheating the HLT is not recommended because again of denaturing enzymes and overshooting your MLT temp.

 

[JeffNYC]

Sorry, looks like I missed a couple posts here.

#1. The downwside of placing your temp probe in the MLT, or anywhere too far down line in the process form the HEX is that you increase the chance of an overshoot. People generally have excellent results when placing the temp probe in the HEX, or at the outlet of the HEX. There is really no reason to have the temp probe in the MLT, it is not as accurate at measuring wort temp there.

#2. You still want a way to stir the HLT water. If you do not, you will have a less conrollable HEX. You will have hot and cold spots and temperature stratification that you cannot control. When the temp is homogenous, you KNOW that there is even heating and you KNOW that the heat from the element is being effectively transferred to the coil. Otherwise the coil will create a cold spot, the element a hot spot... this reducing your level of control in the system. IMHO

#3. You could use a "t" and a compression fitting or something to get the probe into the output flow of the HEX. There is really little reason to measure the temp of the MLT output, if you are controlling the temp of the input.

#4. I dont know anything about the Ranco, but I did get my JC A419 pre-wired. I would suggest not hard wiring anything into anything. My A419 PLUGS into my control panel and my element PLUGS into my A419. This helps to make the parts more user friendly when cleaning, repairing, updating, moving, anything.

I see the need for only measuring temps from the heat exchange output, that's what I was looking into, measuring the heat coming out of the coil in the HLT into the MT (I was looking for a T, although I can't find a part that looks like it works with the thermowells on McMaster). I was thinking of measuring the output of the MT also (or input into the coil of the HLT), just for information on the temperature difference (similar to what you do).

However, your clarification pointed out (now obvious) that my suggestion would require recirculation for the heating element to work. I can see cases of not running a recirculation, such as the example you pointed out above, and others.

I was thinking of hard wiring the plugs myself, but if you didn't, it doesn't make sense for me to try to either. One less thing to do (especially that involves electricity).

As for tools, what else do you need besides a 1 1/4" hole saw and 2" hole saw (I have 2 1/2" I assume that is OK) for the heating element? 1/2" for HE? 1" for stoppers (thermowell, thermometer)? Others?

 

[The Pol]

Those hole saws and drills should work! Did you check out my video? Some of the pics may help too!

 

[planenut]

I may have missed it somewhere but am wondering what kind of flow rate you want when recirculating the mash?

I'm guessing you would want it to be similar to fly sparging at around 1 qt per minute but that seems really restrictive on the pump.

Just curious what rate and how you achieve that rate with the pump?

Thanks

 

[missing link]

I have a similar set-up to POL. I initially tried to recirc very slowly and what I found is that my system would call for heat and heat the liquid in the heat exchanger to my set temp and switch off, it would then take a few minutes to purge the heated wort out and bring in enough cool wort to trigger the system on. It was difficult to maintain temps this way and almost impossible to increase the temp with any type of speed.

I have since learned that once you are doughed in and you have a slow recirc going, I can actually open the pump up to full flow. At full flow rates, my element can turn on and stay on until the mash reaches set temp. As long as the mash outlet is below the set temp on my system, my element stays on. I am very happy with this set-up now.

Linc

 

[The Pol]

I dont have a particular flow rate really. I run it at about half flow when I am recirculating. Now, if I am stepping up, I may open it up further, maybe even full open... I just sorta wing it!

 

[planenut]

I thought the pump ran several gallons per minute. It isn't going that fast is it?

I only have 3/8 ball valves currently but I don't think it will flow faster than about 2 quarts per minute wide open...

 

[The Pol]

As long as I am not sticking my mash... I dont really care how fast it is running.

If you are only getting 2qt/min FULL OPEN, you can run it full open. I probably run mine at about 1gal/min when I am brewing generally... I never really pay attention to the position of the valve, I just look at the flow in the return line and say.. yup, looks good... and leave it.

 

[planenut]

I guess a lot of this will be answered when your supplies come in and we get to see you in action...

With my slower flow, I guess I am just worried about starving the pump. I would have the valve to the pump fully open and the outflow restricted enough so that I don't get a stuck sparge?

 

[The Pol]

I dont know how much my video will answer... I pump at about 1gal/min during the mash, which you stated you cannot get from your setup.

You have smaller plumbing

You have a much lower possible flow rate

You should be able to FULLY open your MLT valve and adjust your flow to anything you desire on the output with no ill effects. Your flow is not just a product of your 3/8" valve on the MLT, it is also a product of the restriction of flow down line from the pump with your smaller plumbing.

I think your questions will be best answered when you brew with your system... I think that is the only way to determine how YOUR rig will operate best.

 

[The Pol]

I guess a lot of this will be answered when your supplies come in and we get to see you in action...

With my slower flow, I guess I am just worried about starving the pump. I would have the valve to the pump fully open and the outflow restricted enough so that I don't get a stuck sparge?

I dont think you have to worry about a stuck sparge while pumping 2qt/min.

 

[planenut]

Cool thanks..
Didn't want to burn up a pump.

 

[Saccharomyces]

Hey, srsly guys, was I the first one to recognize the BLING BLING photos of this lovely rig in the Mar/Apr BYO mag?

Way to go dude!!

 

[diatonic]

Hey Pol, congrats on the BYO article, hoping my first issue arrives soon.

Which false bottom do you run in your MLT?

 

[The Pol]

Ahhh, that is the SS false bottom from Northern Brewer for the 10gal coolers. It is phenominal.

Thanks guys.

 

[zimmzala]

Well after sitting here reading this thread from beginning to end and looking at all the pictures in your gallery all I can say is WOW!! that is brilliant. I had decided to go AG and was going to start purchasing everything this weekend, however now I think I need to change my parts lists. Nice work Pol keep it up. Going to get the mag tomorrow also.

 

[Gumbys_Brew]

i do have to say this setup is amazing. i have currently started putting one together myself based on your system Pol. although i am not using an electric cooler as an HLT. I was going to buy a ten gallon cooler when my SWMBO reminded me about a ten gallon kettle i had purchased about 6 months ago. so i am going to use it and directly heat the HLT with a burner. i'll also be using a bathroom fan to stir the HLT.

all i need to finish and get the herms to work is a pump and i'll be set

 

[The Pol]

Well after sitting here reading this thread from beginning to end and looking at all the pictures in your gallery all I can say is WOW!! that is brilliant. I had decided to go AG and was going to start purchasing everything this weekend, however now I think I need to change my parts lists. Nice work Pol keep it up. Going to get the mag tomorrow also.

Hey, thanks. I appreciate all of the praise. The system has evolved for a long time, and has had a lot of thought put into the details of how it was built.

I appreciate the praise, and if I can further help in the build, let me know. I have helped a few here, and have some spreadsheets available that make calculating volumes, temps and times for the HERMS HEX a breeze.

 

[The Pol]

i do have to say this setup is amazing. i have currently started putting one together myself based on your system Pol. although i am not using an electric cooler as an HLT. I was going to buy a ten gallon cooler when my SWMBO reminded me about a ten gallon kettle i had purchased about 6 months ago. so i am going to use it and directly heat the HLT with a burner. i'll also be using a bathroom fan to stir the HLT.

all i need to finish and get the herms to work is a pump and i'll be set

The bathroom fan will work for an hour or so, then burn up and die. I used mine in testing and it burned up. They spin WAY too fast, even with a small impeller they do not have the torque to stir water. Also, they depend on the "fan" to cool them, without that, they burn up.

I used a 120VAC AC gear motor, it is 100RPM, from McMaster Carr. But, trust me, the fan motor will not work.

 

[The Pol]

Here are the components!

This is what you want for the HLT stirrer... or something like it. Fan motors will not do it.

 

[G-E-R-M-A-N]

Hey Pol it has been a long time. I have a few more questions.

How high up does your heating element come up in the MLT? (I am concerned my 2000w might be longer)

What did you say was the minimum amt of water you want in the HLT to keep element covered?

Is there a way to get the magazine issue with your setup? I have not subscribed to BYO, but want to read the article.

On a side note, ordered the last of the parts for this yesterday. ( I think LOL)

 

[The Pol]

#1. My element is 7" long, so I did a physical test to see how many gallons of water I needed to keep it submerged. It is about 3.6 gallons.

#2. I bought a few issues at my LHBS. If you go on the BYO website, they have a section where it tells you where you can buy thier magazine outright, with no subscription.

If you need any more assistance, let me know!

 

[TommyBoy]

I have the same gear motor as Pol but 150rpm. It has a little less torque but is still more than enough for H2O. Mine runs a stainless propeller in a 15gal B3 kettle.

 

[The Pol]

I have the same gear motor as Pol but 150rpm. It has a little less torque but is still more than enough for H2O. Mine runs a stainless propeller in a 15gal B3 kettle.

They are nice motors arent they!

 

[TommyBoy]

They are nice motors arent they!

Definitely heavy duty! I am very glad that I picked one up after seeing yours.

 

[The Pol]

Yeah, that motor will last forever, they are very heavy duty... perfect for water/mash mixing applications.