New 10 Gallon Herms! Pics!

[The Pol]

You will probably be about the 8th person here to build this system... Welcome, and if I can help, I will. I have a couple spreadsheets for this system that are needed to manage water temps, volumes and heating times. When you get to that point, drop me a line and I will hook you up.

The BYO article was cool, they sent me a beautiful etched glass beer mug as well with "BYO" on one side and the White Labs insignia on the other. They were a pleasure to work with.

Pol

 

[OddMind]

Just finished watching your YouTube videos, very well done.

As I’m building my parts list and making orders, I noticed this project of yours has been the culmination of a few years. That being said, if you were starting from scratch today, would you do anything different?

For example the March Pump, would you now go with a different pump? What about the temp controller would you stick with the same one or upgrade to something newer?

 

[The Pol]

THere is no pump that can outperform the March Pump in my mind. Also, the JC A419 on the HLT works excellent, it needs no prcial wiring and can be mounted to the HLT... I like that.

Id personally change nothing.

 

[alpo]

FYI, I will be building a similar system in the coming week or two. I already had half the equipment and I can build a stand myself, so I figured, what the hell. It won't be exactly the same, but the basic concept is there. Also, I will be using the HLT as a prechiller for a CFC, so the heat exchanger will work both ways.

 

[e lo]

One other option for the stirring is to get an old hand-held mixer from Goodwill or the like. Mine has worked quite well for 4 batches or so now. Not nearly as elegant as ThePol's version, but it does the job for $5 instead of $50.

 

[G-E-R-M-A-N]

Hey pol I am slightly confused on how much water I am going to need to actually brew. I have a 2000w heating element, that stays submerged at about the 4 gal line.

You start off with 9.5 gals right?

Then you add strike water which is roughly 3.5 gal right? (depends on grains etc.)

Then your topping off with a specific temp water to help bring the HLT tank water to proper recirculation temp correct?

From here you sparge with remaining water after mashout.

So after adding initial strike water........ example : 9.5g - 3.5g = 6gal remaining.

I am going to need roughly 5gal to sparge with according to beer tools, to get a final boil volume of 7.44 (this leaves me about 5.7 gal to ferment after 1 hr boil)

So... do I only add enough water to cool down to circulation temp? Then after mashout, you just turn off heating element and sparge right? (so at that point it does not matter if element is submerged)

Sorry I feel like my brain is farting on this part of the system.

 

[OddMind]

So this is probably only the start of my questions, but I didn’t see the answers anywhere in the existing thread.

With regards to your sparge arm (loc line), did you stopper the end, and drill holes in the coolant tubing? (This was my first order from McMaster, thanks for tip, really nice website and service.)

For the E-Kettle you combined a PID and SSR for control. (I’m assuming there is a temp probe in there somewhere, but lost track of it in my reading). However for the HLT you’re using the Johnson A419. Is there any reason for the two different methods?

 

[The Pol]

Hey pol I am slightly confused on how much water I am going to need to actually brew. I have a 2000w heating element, that stays submerged at about the 4 gal line.

You start off with 9.5 gals right?

Then you add strike water which is roughly 3.5 gal right? (depends on grains etc.)

Then your topping off with a specific temp water to help bring the HLT tank water to proper recirculation temp correct?

From here you sparge with remaining water after mashout.

So after adding initial strike water........ example : 9.5g - 3.5g = 6gal remaining.

I am going to need roughly 5gal to sparge with according to beer tools, to get a final boil volume of 7.44 (this leaves me about 5.7 gal to ferment after 1 hr boil)

So... do I only add enough water to cool down to circulation temp? Then after mashout, you just turn off heating element and sparge right? (so at that point it does not matter if element is submerged)

Sorry I feel like my brain is farting on this part of the system.

I start with the ammount of water in the HLT that the spreadsheet dictates. Most of the time it is 9.5 gallons, most of the time.

I then strike with whatever ammount is required... 3.5 - 5 gallons.

This leaves 4.5 - 6 gallons of 180F water in the HLT. I then typically have to add about 1 - 1.5 gallons of water (68F)) to the HLT to meet my total water requirement. This water in turn reduces my HLT temp to the proper recirculation temp. (155 - 160F)

In my system I need 1.5 gallons MORE water than is required to brew with... due to water loss in the coil, dead space in the HLT and MLT. When I begin to sparge I turn off the element and simply sparge, this completely drains the HLT. There is no need to keep the element submerged during the sparge, the element is off, you just drain the HLT.

 

[The Pol]

So this is probably only the start of my questions, but I didn’t see the answers anywhere in the existing thread.

With regards to your sparge arm (loc line), did you stopper the end, and drill holes in the coolant tubing? (This was my first order from McMaster, thanks for tip, really nice website and service.)

For the E-Kettle you combined a PID and SSR for control. (I’m assuming there is a temp probe in there somewhere, but lost track of it in my reading). However for the HLT you’re using the Johnson A419. Is there any reason for the two different methods?

The Loc Line is just a line... no holes drilled, no stopper. I fly sparge, and typically during a fly sparge you leave 1-2" of water above the grain bed, so the Loc Line simply delivers the sparge water gently into that water. There is no need to sprinkle water on top of water as far as I am concerned. That 1-2" of water is the buffer between the sparge flow and the grain bed, I see no channeling.

There is a K type thermocouple in the E-Keggle... it is on page 6 I think of my electric HERMS conversion thread. I used an A419 on the HLT because that is all that it needs. In the early stages of my system I only had 120VAC available, so I designed it all around that power supply. That being said, the A419 made more sense than an SSR and PID.

If I could have used an A419 for control of my BK, I would have. It is smaller, more concise, less hassle to wire. The only reason to use an SSR and PID is to switch large amp loads that an A419 cannot, or to have a "smart" temp controller, which is not needed on either the HLT or BK.

 

[conch]

Hey Pol, I just wanted to thank you for this awesome thread. After hours and hours of research it looks like your system is exactly what I am looking for; so I guess that I'm the 9th person on this forum that wants to build it! I will probably go with propane for the BK for now and maybe upgrade later to the E-Keggle. Anyway, most of my questions have been answered with this thread, however, I have a couple for you.

1. I plan on fly sparging. How to you measure that the arm is 1-2" off the grain bed since you can't see inside the MLT with the top on. Is it just experience, or do you have some way of measuring the distance? Also, do you place the nozzle slightly above or below the 1-2" water line?
2. When sparging, how do you ensure that you are maintaining the 1-2" water level since you can't see inside the MLT? Again, experience, or something else?
3. If possible, could I get a copy of the excel spread sheet that you have come up with. I would appreciate it.
4. In your YouTube video I see that there are a couple of notches cut into the top of the MLT. Is this from an earlier build, or do they serve a purpose with this set-up?
5. When you are in the mash phase, where do you place the flexible arm in the MLT. Is right above the grain bed, in the middle MLT, or on top? Also, do you position it so you get a whirlpool effect, or do you try and minimize that?

I am sure I will have more questions as I get further into it. Again thanks for all of your help.

 

[The Pol]

Hey Pol, I just wanted to thank you for this awesome thread. After hours and hours of research it looks like your system is exactly what I am looking for; so I guess that I'm the 9th person on this forum that wants to build it! I will probably go with propane for the BK for now and maybe upgrade later to the E-Keggle. Anyway, most of my questions have been answered with this thread, however, I have a couple for you.

1. I plan on fly sparging. How to you measure that the arm is 1-2" off the grain bed since you can't see inside the MLT with the top on. Is it just experience, or do you have some way of measuring the distance? Also, do you place the nozzle slightly above or below the 1-2" water line?
2. When sparging, how do you ensure that you are maintaining the 1-2" water level since you can't see inside the MLT? Again, experience, or something else?
3. If possible, could I get a copy of the excel spread sheet that you have come up with. I would appreciate it.
4. In your YouTube video I see that there are a couple of notches cut into the top of the MLT. Is this from an earlier build, or do they serve a purpose with this set-up?
5. When you are in the mash phase, where do you place the flexible arm in the MLT. Is right above the grain bed, in the middle MLT, or on top? Also, do you position it so you get a whirlpool effect, or do you try and minimize that?

I am sure I will have more questions as I get further into it. Again thanks for all of your help.

Thanks for the inquiry. Send me your email addy and I can email you the appropriate files.

1. You can actually see where the return line is ending up as you close the lid, it is pretty easy to eyeball the depth. I leave it in somewhere in the water that is above the grain bed.

2. Experience, matching the flow rate isnt as hard as it sounds, really.

3. Answered above.

4. Those were from a mod. a couple years ago where I mounted my sparge arm INside the MLT... no longer needed.

5. I let it whirlpool against the side of the cooler, an inch or so below the fluid level in the MLT. Remember, there is plenty of water above the grain bed in the MLT during the mash.

 

[rjhockey]

So I just order some lock line and the tip and 1/2 connector. I didn't order the pliers anyone have any ideas to mash them together.. I've already tried brute force and thing I damaged it a little.

 

[The Pol]

So I just order some lock line and the tip and 1/2 connector. I didn't order the pliers anyone have any ideas to mash them together.. I've already tried brute force and thing I damaged it a little.

Boil the two pieces in hot water, that is what I did.

 

[G-E-R-M-A-N]

Boil the two pieces in hot water, that is what I did.

I had to beat my loc line on where it connected to the threaded fitting. Even after boiling.

I wound up screwing a brass piece on threaded end of lockline fitting and gently hammering it into the blue piece. I then from here connected it to the rest of the blue loc line pieces.

 

[thorongil]

That was definitely the toughest part of the process... the rubber mallet came in handy for me... glad you got it done!

 

[rjhockey]

Thanks I'll have to try boiling them tomorrow.

Yea I snapped the rest together with ease using straight brute force, but that stupid little grey connector can go to hell.

 

[The Pol]

It is tough, but after boiling them and using some muscle, they popped right together.

 

[mcgeebc]

I am planning on doing something similar to this design. My question is... what is the benefit of having a separate IC and heat exchanger? Couldn't you save a couple of $$$ and use one coil for both?

 

[The Pol]

Eh... save $50 and add a lot of hassle. The HERMS coil needs to go through the lid of the cooler, and I prefer that it do so tightly so as to reduce heat loss. This means that it cannot be removed from the HLT lid, which also means that it cannot be used as an IC. The benefit is having dedicated equipment, never having to clean my HERMS coil etc.

I am currently looking at getting rid of chilling all together, that will solve the IC issue as I dont like wasting water to that degree really.

 

[Thirsty_Monk]

I am currently looking at getting rid of chilling all together, that will solve the IC issue as I dont like wasting water to that degree really.

And how would you do it? You need to have some kind of heat exchanger.

 

[G-E-R-M-A-N]

I am currently looking at getting rid of chilling all together, that will solve the IC issue as I dont like wasting water to that degree really.

Might be a dumb stab at what you are doing, but are you going recirculate post boil wort through ice slurry submerged coil in converted HLT? Sorta like a reverse HERMS?

 

[planenut]

I think he is going to do the Australian thing and not chill at all. Just put it in a vessel with no air and wait a day or so when it is cool to pitch yeast...

 

[jkarp]

Hrmm. What about DMS?

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

You can also recirculate water form an ice batch through your IC or CFC. That's what I do now as in the winter I have nowhere for the water to go and in the summer I can get fined.

 

[The Pol]

Hrmm. What about DMS?

No real worries about DMS, after a 90 minute boil, there should be no scare of DMS. Apparently this no chill thing works, people are doing it here and abroad. Should shorten the brew day, save water etc... I am down with the Aussies.

 

[The Pol]

And how would you do it? You need to have some kind of heat exchanger.

Yup, a 65F fermentation chamber... ambient air.

 

[Henny]

You can also recirculate water form an ice batch through your IC or CFC. That's what I do now as in the winter I have nowhere for the water to go and in the summer I can get fined.

Seriously? Fined? For what?!?

 

[The Pol]

Seriously? Fined? For what?!?

Many places monitor water useage in the summer. Here in the states you can get fined for washing your car etc. at home in the summer if you live in the wrong city.

 

[Henny]

I live in the states, where the HELL do they fine for water usage???

 

[The Pol]

Carolinas, Georgia, etc... the southeast is in a long standing drought. I have friends that have to collect rain water to water thier gardens because it is illegal to use water for yard or gardening purposes as well as washing your car.