Never been so discouraged about homebrew (need some encouragement)

[eanmcnulty]

Instead of RO water and adding salts, you might try bottled spring water and not add anything. Chicago water is very good once the chlorine evaporated, but sometimes I forget to leave my water out over night to let that happen, so I go out and buy a couple of 2.5g bottles of spring water. I have read that spring water still has minerals in it.

 

[Adeering]

Im still fairly new to brewing (got about 30 batches and 1 year into the hobby) but I have had my fair share of good and not so good batches (only 2 that I had to dump). What I found that really help us with producing quality batches was to stay with kits longer than we wanted. On my third batch we tried to create our own recipe and while it was drinkable and decent, was not at all what we were expecting (neither me or my brew buddy like the banana clover of belgian hefs and we got a strong flavor from the yeast we didnt know any better at the time). Learning what works together and what does what helped a lot and now we are designing quality beers (not world class but definately as good as store bought stuff) on a regular basis.

The other thing I would recommend is getting your setup fine tuned. We took 3 brews in a row and recorded everything from water amounts, temps, ph and gravities in every step we could think of. Was a pain in the ass and kinda made us forget some of the additions a little late, but it allowed us to break down our efficiency and process and now we hit our numbers pretty close every time.

As said many times already, sanitation is super important. I currently have a lager that I brewed by myself since my partner is out of town and wasnt as vigilant as we normally are (he normally is the one going crazy for sanitation) and it has an off flavor. Im letting it age even longer hoping it will settle out but not sure. Point being is to be over sanitized vs under.

Dont give up, the first time you create a beer that you take a sip of and think its amazing is an awesome feeling. I made an IPA that to me is one of the best IPAs Ive ever drank (and not just because I made it, though that helps). Was a lucky recipe I kinda through together to test a hop I wasnt familiar with and now its my favorite hop and favorite brew that i keep rebrewing.

 

[jbeukelman]

- Friends and family are often poor beer judges. I don't know about yours, but my family would tell me it was the best tasting beer ever, even if I gave them the gnarliest butter bomb ever created.
- Have you tried taking a bottle or two down to your local LHBS and see what they have to say? Maybe they can detect what your tasting and offer advice.
- I've read the whole thread and don't recall you saying what your fermentation temp is. Temp control during fermentation is key.
- What about making a simple extract batch? If it tastes the same, than you know it has nothing to do with mash/sparge/etc. If it tastes better, than at least you'll know where to look.

I've certainly been frustrated before. I've dumped a few batches myself. Is it possible that your beer is actually just fine, and that you're being a little overly critical of yourself that your brew doesn't measure up to a commercial micro? I've been there done that, so that's why I'm asking.

 

[phoenixs4r]

Trying too hard. My best batches are ones that I did for friends on the side and honestly didn't care as much as when I did mine. Expectations weren't as high, and since I didnt really care, I didn't remind myself of every little thing that went wrong on that particular brew day when cracking each bottle open.

I've really just stopped worrying about everything as of late. I built a stand just so that I could be consistent with my water volumes and not burn my hands repeatedly when lifting my keggle HLT. The only thing that ruins a brew day is my ****ing pump. I swear if I don't goes rims in 1 year I'm selling it.

 

[jbsg02]

- Friends and family are often poor beer judges. I don't know about yours, but my family would tell me it was the best tasting beer ever, even if I gave them the gnarliest butter bomb ever created.
- Have you tried taking a bottle or two down to your local LHBS and see what they have to say? Maybe they can detect what your tasting and offer advice.
- I've read the whole thread and don't recall you saying what your fermentation temp is. Temp control during fermentation is key.
- What about making a simple extract batch? If it tastes the same, than you know it has nothing to do with mash/sparge/etc. If it tastes better, than at least you'll know where to look.

I've certainly been frustrated before. I've dumped a few batches myself. Is it possible that your beer is actually just fine, and that you're being a little overly critical of yourself that your brew doesn't measure up to a commercial micro? I've been there done that, so that's why I'm asking.

I cool down my wort in my kegerator before pitching, I can only get it down to about 80 using my chiller. I try to pitch in the low-mid 60's. For ales, I usually keep it at 64-66 for the bulk of primary fermentation, then as fermentaion is ending, I will let it warm up to encourage the yeast to stay active, finish up, and clean up. If I'm using something like 1056, I will ferment sometimes as low as 61, or sometimes 65-66. The kolsch I just kegged stayed at about 65 for the first week, when it was just about at FG, I let it warm up to 70-72. I have been using liquid yeast lately, making a starter on a stir plate. I had previously been sticking to US-05 for almost everything.

 

[jchudon]

Have you tried to use carbon filtered tap water?
What sanitizer du you use?
How do you store your grains and hops?

Maybe if you walk us through an entire brew with every step detailed, we'd be able to give you some hints.

I hope your brewing gets to you taste soon

 

[hopsalot]

Most of my brews tended to lack maltyness and mouthfeel, which led me to buy a new thermometer, because I suspected I was mashing much lower than I thought I was.

add carapils

 

[jbsg02]

Have you tried to use carbon filtered tap water?
What sanitizer du you use?
How do you store your grains and hops?

Maybe if you walk us through an entire brew with every step detailed, we'd be able to give you some hints.

I hope your brewing gets to you taste soon

Thanks, I filter all my water through a culligan filter and use star-san. I don't store any grains and hops. I buy them from the brew store and use them within a few days.

 

[brrit]

I second the idea of taking a bottle or two into your brew store. I'm just south of you in Dallas and I would recommend taking a bottle into Homebrew Headquarters. They'll be able to help you out with the off flavors. I've never done it and maybe there is some law against it or something, but I would highly recommend giving it a try.

 

[biochemedic]

I bottled a wheat beer a couple of months ago. ... It wasn't horrible, but had a somewhat plastic aftertaste.

What about chloramines? Do they use chloramines to sanitize your water? If you can't figure out whether or not they do, you could consider trying some potassium metabisulfite treatment of your water....

 

[Rocky71]

I don't worry about half the stuff you listed and my beers and wines mostly come out great. How good are your ingredients? Meaning do you know for sure where your buying them from has a high turn over rate and so on.

 

[jbsg02]

What about chloramines? Do they use chloramines to sanitize your water? If you can't figure out whether or not they do, you could consider trying some potassium metabisulfite treatment of your water....

Yes they do, but I filter my water very slowly through a culligan water filter. I have tasted the effects of chlorine/chloramine before, my first two batches were rendered undrinkable because of it. They plastic flavor isn't that strong in that beer.

 

[downtown3641]

Yes they do, but I filter my water very slowly through a culligan water filter. I have tasted the effects of chlorine/chloramine before, my first two batches were rendered undrinkable because of it. They plastic flavor isn't that strong in that beer.

I don't think filtering is going to remove the chloramine. It took me seven batches before I started using Campden tablets, but they've made a big difference. Even with the first seven batches, the chloramine had more of an effect on some than others. While the chloramine may not be the entire problem, I don't think there's any reason not to toss a quarter to half a Campden tab in your tap water. They're extremely inexpensive.

 

[bribo179]

Have you tried switching grain manufacturers?

What sanitizer do you...how do you use it?

 

[jbsg02]

I don't think filtering is going to remove the chloramine. It took me seven batches before I started using Campden tablets, but they've made a big difference. Even with the first seven batches, the chloramine had more of an effect on some than others. While the chloramine may not be the entire problem, I don't think there's any reason not to toss a quarter to half a Campden tab in your tap water. They're extremely inexpensive.

I have used potassium metabisulfite before (pretty much the same thing as campden). The carbon filter I have is pretty commonly used to remove chlorine and chloramine

 

[david_42]

There are many things that a filter will not remove, like dissolved minerals. Either get the filtered water tested or just buy some bottled water for the next batch. The latter is a really simple way of determining if it's the water or some problem with your process.

 

[jbsg02]

There are many things that a filter will not remove, like dissolved minerals. Either get the filtered water tested or just buy some bottled water for the next batch. The latter is a really simple way of determining if it's the water or some problem with your process.

I have tried using RO water a few times, and it doesn't seem to affect the outcome very much. The water isn't bad here, I have talked to some local professional brewers and they only use a carbon filter as well as pH 5.2 in their mash.

 

[Schmutzli]

I saw you use starsan, do you use any cleaners like bbrite or onesstep? Or anything else to clean/sterilize? Do you sterilize bottles in the dishwasher? Residuals from these have caused flavors like you describe in my beers and brew pals'.

 

[roadymi]

At the risk of sounding sarcastic.....You have dismissed (mostly politely) every idea and suggestion presented to you by the good people of this forum. It appears your process and technique are spot on and it is just Sh#$%^ DA#@ luck that prevents you from having the premium beer you crave.

 

[jrodskreet]

Just my 2 cents...

Maybe it's as simple as you setting the bar too high for yourself. You mentioned not being as good as your favorite brews you get at the store. I've only been doing this half the time you have, but I've learned that the most mediocre of my beers taste about 100xs better just because I brewed it. Meaning it may taste like poo to everyone else, but it's gold to me

Keep at it though. You can only get better.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

It seems to me you are just overthinking it. My suggestion would be to just do a SMaSH, Maybe something like Maris Otter and Centennial, use some store bought spring water and NO SALTS. If you get the same results, then IMO, you have an equipment problem and you'll want to start thinking about replacing stuff. Best of luck to you, I know how frustrating this kind of thing can be.

 

[rico567]

The RO water thing has been done, so I don't know what to add. Brew something very simple. Use RO water, unmodified. Get things down to the point where variables are minimized.

 

[neosapien]

thing about the dfw area is that we got chloramine in our waters. that's one of the first things i did. didn't mess with salts and chemisty. got myself water from one of those glacier water things in front of stores. made a huge difference. i'd agree with the previous post that you're probably just overthinking things. take a break for a minute. brewing is supposed to be a fun thing. think about the fact that you said your beers aren't as good as you want them to be, you didn't say you are making bad beer. i'd say the hunger for serving your own high standards is a good thing. every brew is just another step closer to that goal. at least, that's how i've felt about the scant handfuls of batches i've brewed. somebody previously mentioned trying a smash, go for that. get some plain ol' bottled water a nice grain a nice simple hop, and let 'er rip @ 152. wait a while, do some life, come back in a few, have a beer, rinse repeat. it's a pretty neat brew of life.

 

[pivovar]

Are you pitching enough yeast and oxygenate well? Try a small 1.040 OG, 1 gallon batch. With the same water. Stressed yeast throws off a ton of phenolic off-flavors.

 

[ArcLight]

So far I have only brewed extract recipes from Northern Brewer and Midwest Supplies.
I've never had to dump a batch.
But I've never brewed anything that I thought was excellent.
The Dry Irish Stout (NB) was good.
The Caribou Slobber (NB) was ok (a bit thin,, and not due to using too much water)
All 3 IPAs I have brewed have been disappointing to me. The Chinook IPA (NB) was ok.
But nothing I've brewed is as good as the good craft beer I can get at the store.

I am a bit discouraged. Both my last 2 batches were slightly under attenuated (1.016 instead of 1.012,, and 1.018 instead of 1.010 - I added another yeast packet top the later).

I will try all grain via BIAB (Brew in a Bag). I expect there is a learning curve there as well, but hopefully the beer will taste better.
If I follow the directions of a kit, and its just OK, then I may have done something wrong.
But maybe the kits I've brewed so far are just ok, but not great.
In any case I will continue brewing, but I am a little discouraged.

Next up: Whiskey Barrel Porter, Pale Ale, Vanilla Porter, Kolsch

 

[Toy4Rick]

How about pick a recipe you like and brew it several times to perfect it. If you keep trying different recipes you will never be able to hone in on what might be going on. I have brewed my Hef abut 7 times in the last 1.5 years and I really like it. The first one was drinkable at best, now it's really good.

Also, document everything from brewing to fermenting to bottling and tasting so you can analyze from batch to batch.

Toy4Rick

 

[Dawgs47]

I thought about this last night. I think there are three levels of problems. 1. Contamination, 2. Process, 3. Ingredients. I would do a full system evaluation on all three levels. Simplify everything on every level to eliminate variables and find what is causing your problems.

1. Contamination- I would review everything that touches the wort or beer after the boil. Replace or deep clean everything. Use quality cleaners. No bleach or scented products. Concentrate on on Sanitatization during your next brew. I lost 3 batches due to a bad piece of tubing.

2. Process- Simplify and then add back one brew at a time. I would go to Extract with RO or distilled water. This will eliminate all mashing problems or water problems. The extract already has all the minerals and salts it needs. I would go with dry yeast (properly rehydrated) US-05. Ferment at 67F. Tape the temp prob to the fermentor with bubble wrap or towels on top of that. Give it 2 weeks then bottle instead of keg.

3. Ingredients- Get fresh ingredients from trusted sources. I would look for a simple recipe with with a lower OG so you don't have to worry about O2. Look for something that you can enjoy, but also pick out off flavors.

All the equipment and information can make things more difficult and certainly more complicated. A well made beer will taste good. Add back everything one at a time after you have made a clean beer you approve of.

Just my thoughts, I hope it helps.

 

[seefish]

I would enter your beer into a competition, not to win, just for the feedback. Maybe take one of the beers you did like and try to brew it a couple times to see if you can repeat the results.

 

[theblaster]

Ever thought that maybe you are trying to juggle with too many balls?

I once heard one of the white labs people say that they won't teach someone how to brew all grain or mini mash until they have completed 20 batches of extract. I know you have all the fancy gear and want to use it to its fullest. But are trying to play beer chess against Kasparov?

Maybe try making a few extract kits from AHB, Morebeer, Williams, etc. Something simple like a pale ale. Follow the instructions and let go of that big brain. use some bottled water and don't even correct it. Just let the force flow through you...

Also, your standards might be a little high for your own product. When tasting 'professionally' made beer people tend to think that it is right. You know, because these people get paid to make beer. And people tend to think their stuff isn't as good because, well, people are insecure. Make something simple. Take it to a brew club. Let them tell you what you did right. That would be my advice.

In Bottle: Hoppy Wheat
In Keg: Brown Ale
In Fermentor: Session IPA
Up Next: Session IPA (with improvements)

 

[danio]

If you are using a CDN thermometer, make sure that its not the type for 'thin cuts of meat.' That thermometer almost made me quit brewing too. It was accurate at 0F and 212F but around 155F it was 20-30F off!!! It all had to do with how deep I put it in the water. Turns out that on the package it says 'for thin cuts of meat' when it should say 'don't put this in more than 1/2".' As a result I was getting tannins and stale flavors in my beer thanks to mashing too hot.

Heat up a cup of water in the microwave and check it when you think its around mash temps. Check it against a simple analog thermometer.