Never been so discouraged about homebrew (need some encouragement)

[emjay]

Harshness/bitterness often comes from too much sulfate.

 

[jbsg02]

What are you fermenting in?

I have a better bottle and the usual buckets. Seeing all the broken glass has scared me from using it, and people seem to do just fine with their better bottles on here.

 

[jbsg02]

One additional thought: Lactic acid has a rather nasty flavor of its own. If you must acidify your sparge water, phosphoric acid would be a better choice.

The best brew I made (the Kolsch) used more lactic acid than I have used in any other batch. I tend to use as little as I can get away with in my lighter beers.

 

[D0ug]

I made one decent beer with DME, it was yooper's 60 min IPA clone, although the hop flavor faded very quickly in the bottle and I think suffered from a little oxidation after several weeks in the bottle. I tried extract again after I made a few bad all grain beers, using DME. If I remember correctly, it was a bit harsh/bitter, possibly metallic.

I don't suppose there was anyhting different between the two? Could be a clue...

I have a better bottle and the usual buckets. Seeing all the broken glass has scared me from using it, and people seem to do just fine with their better bottles on here.

I've use glass, BBs, and buckets, and haven't noticed a difference in taste due to the choice of fermentor.

 

[jbsg02]

I don't suppose there was anyhting different between the two? Could be a clue...



I've use glass, BBs, and buckets, and haven't noticed a difference in taste due to the choice of fermentor.

That's what I took out of my extract experiment, that I needed to focus more on healthy fermentation, I had always just used dry yeast before that. I began buying liquid yeast and making a starter on a stir plate. I have noticed some improvement since then, but I'm still not making the beer I'd like to be.

 

[D0ug]

I wouldn't be too quick to knock the dry yeast, the Fermentis products US-05, 04, etc... are pretty good, ensure a good pitch rate for most beers up to 1.050-1.060, and many people on here report good results with them.

This makes think we're back to the suggestion of bringing some samples to a local brew club to have them tasted, or finding some other brewers in the area who might be willing to stop in on a brewday or two.

How is your fermentation set up for temp control, and what are your typical ferm. schedules/conditions like?

 

[jbsg02]

I wouldn't be too quick to knock the dry yeast, the Fermentis products US-05, 04, etc... are pretty good, ensure a good pitch rate for most beers up to 1.050-1.060, and many people on here report good results with them.

This makes think we're back to the suggestion of bringing some samples to a local brew club to have them tasted, or finding some other brewers in the area who might be willing to stop in on a brewday or two.

How is your fermentation set up for temp control, and what are your typical ferm. schedules/conditions like?

I agree, that would do wonders for me, to have some long-time brewers taste and even have a brew day with them.

I can cool my wort down to about 80 with my immersion chiller, we have pretty warm tap water here. Then I stick it in my kegerator for a few hours and try to pitch in the mid to low 60's for most ales. I keep it there through the bulk of fermentation and when fermentation winds down I let it warm up a few degrees to help the yeast totally finish up.

 

[Dan]

Just a dumb thing to say. But maybe you should back off brewing for a month or so. Let your mind think about other things. Stuff you enjoy, family, etc...

Then if you can do that, probably impossible I understand. But if you can let it go for a while and come back to it. You might have a dfeent outlook on your beer.

My lousy couple pennies.

Best of luck my friend!

 

[jbsg02]

Just a dumb thing to say. But maybe you should back off brewing for a month or so. Let your mind think about other things. Stuff you enjoy, family, etc...

Then if you can do that, probably impossible I understand. But if you can let it go for a while and come back to it. You might have a dfeent outlook on your beer.

My lousy couple pennies.

Best of luck my friend!

Thanks, I probably won't brew for a bit anyways because I just brewed 2 batches and am waiting on these.

 

[Stauffbier]

Just a dumb thing to say. But maybe you should back off brewing for a month or so. Let your mind think about other things. Stuff you enjoy, family, etc...

Then if you can do that, probably impossible I understand. But if you can let it go for a while and come back to it. You might have a dfeent outlook on your beer.

My lousy couple pennies.

Best of luck my friend!

This is good advice in my opinion! I've done this with many things in life. I used to do it a lot with guitar playing when I couldn't get a certain riff down. After a little break I would nail that riff on the first try!

 

[RiffMagnum]

Cap and Hare is a good beer club in the DFW area.

 

[jbsg02]

I should point out I'm sampling my most recent brew right now and it's really not that bad. It's a hefe with 50% pils and 50% wheat, about 15 IBU's of hallertau, and I used wyeast 3068. It lacks maltyness and mouthfeel, but there doesn't seem to be any real off flavors. It's still pretty young, only been in the keg about 3 days and not fully carbonated.

 

[jbsg02]

Cap and Hare is a good beer club in the DFW area.

Haven't heard of that, thanks.

 

[estricklin]

Stauffbier you stole what I was going to say! As guitarist we KNOW exactly what it's like to be totally frustrated with something you love so much. When I get pissed I step back for a bit then I remember...Oh yeah this is supposed to be fun.

Grapefruit flavors make me think of a possible infection, review your sanitation techniques, also it could be the lactic acid your using. As for the other off flavor you mentioned I agree with the above about extracting tannins from the mash. Is your sparge water too hot? What temp are you mashing at? How much water are you sparging with? Never sparge until you see clear liquid coming out!

Are you doing a secondary fermentation or one long primary? I'm a big believer of secondary fermentation.

I also agree with the above about brewing software. I can say after my going on 8 years in the oilfeids, not everything engineered on a computer works correctly in the real world. Keep it simple where you can.

 

[jbsg02]

Stauffbier you stole what I was going to say! As guitarist we KNOW exactly what it's like to be totally frustrated with something you love so much. When I get pissed I step back for a bit then I remember...Oh yeah this is supposed to be fun.

Grapefruit flavors make me think of a possible infection, review your sanitation techniques, also it could be the lactic acid your using. As for the other off flavor you mentioned I agree with the above about extracting tannins from the mash. Is your sparge water too hot? What temp are you mashing at? How much water are you sparging with? Never sparge until you see clear liquid coming out!

Are you doing a secondary fermentation or one long primary? I'm a big believer of secondary fermentation.

I also agree with the above about brewing software. I can say after my going on 8 years in the oilfeids, not everything engineered on a computer works correctly in the real world. Keep it simple where you can.

Thanks for the reply. I didn't actually even use lactic acid in that batch. I used RO water. As far as tannins, that was part of the reason for using acid in my sparge water, was to keep it from getting over a pH of 6. My sparge water is usually 170, by the time it leaves my cooler, it's probably a lot lower than that.

 

[urbanmyth]

Maybe monitor your sparge gravity if you haven't been already. Anytime the gravity of the wort leaving your tun dips below 1.010 or so, you are extracting tannins.

 

[jbsg02]

Maybe monitor your sparge gravity if you haven't been already. Anytime the gravity of the wort leaving your tun dips below 1.010 or so, you are extracting tannins.

From what I understand, that's really true if your pH gets too high, mainly the reason I have been acidifying my sparge water. I have been checking my runnings too, and they haven't been getting that low.

 

[mike20793]

How long are you conditioning your beers? I know you mentioned you keg but you mentioned it had only been in for three days and it has no mouthfeel. That sounds a bit green to me.

I live in TN and we have pretty hard water here, but I get along just fine without needing to add anything to control pH. Maybe you should try bottling a smash brew and letting it properly condition.

Other than that, it may be the beer lines of your keg like someone previously mentioned. I feel like you definitely know your stuff, so I really don't know what could be causing your problems. Hope all goes well. Please let us know what you find out. Cheers!

 

[jbsg02]

How long are you conditioning your beers? I know you mentioned you keg but you mentioned it had only been in for three days and it has no mouthfeel. That sounds a bit green to me.

I live in TN and we have pretty hard water here, but I get along just fine without needing to add anything to control pH. Maybe you should try bottling a smash brew and letting it properly condition.

Other than that, it may be the beer lines of your keg like someone previously mentioned. I feel like you definitely know your stuff, so I really don't know what could be causing your problems. Hope all goes well. Please let us know what you find out. Cheers!

Thanks, I have one keg I'm conditioning for a bit longer and natually carbing in the keg. I will try that in a few weeks and hopefully take it to the lake for 4th of July if it's good.

 

[Stauffbier]

Thanks for the reply. I didn't actually even use lactic acid in that batch. I used RO water. As far as tannins, that was part of the reason for using acid in my sparge water, was to keep it from getting over a pH of 6. My sparge water is usually 170, by the time it leaves my cooler, it's probably a lot lower than that.

If you're using RO water are you adding salts back in or are you just using acid? That could give you some problems right there. You should treat your water if you're just using RO..

 

[jbsg02]

If you're using RO water are you adding salts back in or are you just using acid? That could give you some problems right there. You should treat your water if you're just using RO..

The couple of times I used RO water I added some salts back in, no lactic, as my residual alkalinity was very low with no alkalinity in the water. When I use my filtered tap water, I use a little lactic in the mash and sparge, sometimes adding salts depending on the beer.

 

[Dan]

This is good advice in my opinion! I've done this with many things in life. I used to do it a lot with guitar playing when I couldn't get a certain riff down. After a little break I would nail that riff on the first try!

Sorry

Off topic.

Hey Mike,

Not suprised you play the guitar and even though I never had the dedication to be able to, my son did. He's pretty good at it but I think he lost hiisconfindence in his ability.

Pardon me for my bd spelling

Anyway. The creativeness is there. I asked my son the other day how the playing of his guitar was going. He said down hill and I asked him why?

Because Dad, I hear myself play and am let down. I told him he should play with ear plugs.. LOL

To much work you guys put into it. Never stop playing... Please.

 

[Stauffbier]

The couple of times I used RO water I added some salts back in, no lactic, as my residual alkalinity was very low with no alkalinity in the water. When I use my filtered tap water, I use a little lactic in the mash and sparge, sometimes adding salts depending on the beer.

Do you have problems with all of your beers or just certain styles? For instance, do your lighter colored beers come out better than darker ones or vice versa?

I've always felt like my darker beers have a bitter, almost acrid bite to them. Some worse than others. My light beers are always awesome, though. I've recently decided I'm going to either cold steep my dark/roasted grains in cold water and add that water to the boil, or I'm going to add the dark grains to the mash right before vourloff/sparge. I've read (and been told) that this will give a smoother taste while still maintaining roast flavors and color. Resulting in a less harsh beer....

 

[crushingblackdoom]

Sounds to me like you spent a little too much time and effort making a pretty brew house instead of a consistent or efficient one. Not knocking you in any way, but sometimes the ugly junk is what it takes to learn the methods and get the procedures down. I would personally scale back and try to make a simple, time tested recipe (BM's Centennial Blonde and EdWort's Haus Pale come to mind), and instead of monkeying with mash pH and water chemistry, get some simple spring water and focus on the process and making sure fermentation is nice and healthy. Calibrate your tools, leave the brews in the fridge until you pitch your yeast, and have a good time. Hit your numbers. And if you don't, figure out why and how to fix it. I hate to sound preachy, because I am far from an expert, but doing the above has helped me make some of my best beers yet.

Word up. I figure that's how anything worth a damn gets up and running. Start small. Cheap. Improvise. Develop a style & technique. But like DOug? says, making sure you have a good healthy clean ferment is all that really matters. I'm sure youre using enough good yeast, but are you repitching? You MAY be recycling bad juju over and over again. Been there & done that. It sucks. Enough to give up hope & start drinking liquor. Yuck. Well... Sometimes Yuck :{

 

[Stauffbier]

Sorry

Off topic.

Hey Mike,

Not suprised you play the guitar and even though I never had the dedication to be able to, my son did. He's pretty good at it but I think he lost hiisconfindence in his ability.

Pardon me for my bd spelling

Anyway. The creativeness is there. I asked my son the other day how the playing of his guitar was going. He said down hill and I asked him why?

Because Dad, I hear myself play and am let down. I told him he should play with ear plugs.. LOL

To much work you guys put into it. Never stop playing... Please.

Thanks a lot Dan! I loved to play! I hate to admit that I gave it up many years ago due to arthritis preoblems related to my work. I can't even make it thru one song without my hands cramping up now. I still have the guitar I played as a teen. It's over 27 years old.

Here I am with it 27 years ago at the age of 15..

Back on topic... OP, take a little break and do some soul searching on your process, reading and research. Then I bet you'll have great results!

 

[jbsg02]

Do you have problems with all of your beers or just certain styles? For instance, do your lighter colored beers come out better than darker ones or vice versa?

I've always felt like my darker beers have a bitter, almost acrid bite to them. Some worse than others. My light beers are always awesome, though. I've recently decided I'm going to either cold steep my dark/roasted grains in cold water and add that water to the boil, or I'm going to add the dark grains to the mash right before vourloff/sparge. I've read (and been told) that this will give a smoother taste while still maintaining roast flavors and color. Resulting in a less harsh beer....

I actually haven't done any dark beers, I've been sticking to pale ales, IPAs, blondes and a kolsch.

 

[Stauffbier]

I actually haven't done any dark beers, I've been sticking to pale ales, IPAs, blondes and a kolsch.

Well, that still leaves a few possibilities..

- What temp do you ferment at?
- Do you make starters?
- How do you aerate?
- Is there anywhere you could improve your sanitary practices?
- When you tweak your pH are you actually using a meter to check it?

If any of these topics have already been discussed, I apologize...

 

[Jwood]

you making up these recipes or following tried and proven ones? If the former, try doing one in the recipe section that has raving reviews as a test batch. Do everything you are doing and see what you can pick out.

I see you didn't say anything about yeast starters or aerating. The proper amount of yeast, ferm temps, and aerating the wort with pure 02 will make the biggest difference in the world.

P.S. You bottle or keg? some people don't notice it, but if i run any beer through the clear, plastic silicone tubing it picks up a nasty plastic flavor. I know use the bev-seal ultra seal tubing with no problems.

 

[Braufessor]

I know it was kind of mentioned once, but I don't think you gave a real specific answer . . .. Time - How long are you waiting before you label your beer "not good?" For instance, for me -
Brew Day -make beer/cool/add yeast (starter used), primary ferment begins (in buckets)
Day 21 - This is the next time I touch my beer - from primary to keg or bottle. Secondary if it is "big" beer/additions, etc.
Day 42-Day 56 - I will try my first beer in the 6-8 week range usually.
8-16 weeks - this is when I find most of my beers start to come around and taste their best, depending on style.

Any chance you are just rushing these steps and passing judgement on your beer before it has had time to come around?

Couple other thoughts - forgive if I missed it earlier:
*Are you boiling/sanitizing your priming sugar?
*Replace tubing - especially cold side, bottling tubing
*What do you sanitize with? I clean with PBW or Oxyclean, Rinse, Starsan soak, don't rinse.

Keep at it, I could not agree more with the idea of a club, having someone brew with you, brew with someone else, have someone come watch your process - that is the BEST option.

 

[Yooper]

I think the alkalinity of your water is a bit high, and I wonder if it goes up more during some seasons. That can give you a harshness to the beer. Chlorine or chloramines would cause the "plastic" flavor. If you're not treating for that, it could be where your off-flavor comes from (in the city water).

I'd try one more batch with RO water and 1 teaspoon of calcium chloride. I've never been to Garland, but I see those "water machines" all over Texas because the water isn't great.

I'd suggest a very very simple recipe and a package of dry S05 yeast. Something like a Sierra Nevada type pale ale. Like 10 pounds 2-row and 1 pound 40L, and hopped to 40 IBUs. Ferment it at 65 degrees.

And then see if you get ANY of those same flavors. Taste it for plastic, harshness, malty flavor, etc. See if it's just sort of bland, or if there really are off-flavors.

It's really hard to pin down an issue, especially when you seem to be doing everything right! But there has to be something going on, and we can help you figure it out.