need water chemistry help

[WNCBrewman]

My water is pretty soft, but I'm getting a low ph while mashing. If I use one teaspoon or so of baking soda to add sodium and bicarbonate and add one teaspoon of gypsum in the sparge water only leaving me a profile of:
69 ppm sodium
234 ppm bicarbonate
68.2 ppm calcium
118 ppm sulfate
How much and what will precipitate out during a 60 minute boil? I'm worried about the high level of bicarbonate particularly.
I'm starting with a bicarbonate level of 66ppm, and total alkalinity of 54 ppm.
What started all this was my mash ph being too low and extracting at 50-60 percent efficiency. My total hardness is 52 ppm. I'm coming up short on various batches 5-15 gravity points and I am not getting a very good malt backbone or profile. My favorite styles are pale hoppy beers that need a lower amount of bicarbonate.
So I need help determining the amount that comes out in boiling. I have a citra pale ale in the fermenter now that I added sodium bicarbonate to the mash with 1 tsp and one tsp of gypsum to the sparge, got great efficiency ( at target). But the krausen looks weak and I'm very anxious on the results. Please help me fellow brewers.

 

[Yooper]

Good heavens, where is the bicarbonate coming from? That's a disaster!

 

[WNCBrewman]

Should I use calcium carbonate to the mash and no gypsum at all and ditch the soda? Again, I'm asking for help. I was trying to raise my mash ph by adding one tsp of baking soda. I mash in biab. I mashed 5 gallons and sparge to 6.25 total prevail volume

 

[Yooper]

Should I use calcium carbonate to the mash and no gypsum at all and ditch the soda? Again, I'm asking for help. I was trying to raise my mash ph by adding one tsp of baking soda. I mash in biab. I mashed 5 gallons and sparge to 6.25 total prevail volume

No, you never want to use calcium carbonate, unless you know how to bubble c02 through it to get it to dissolve.

Baking soda is ok, but that is a massive bicarbonate level.

You want a mash pH of 5.4-5.5, in most cases. You only need enough alkali (baking soda) to get that mash pH. In a dry stout, a mash pH as low as 5.2 is good, but in others you may want to have a higher pH.

What have your mash pH measurements been?

 

[WNCBrewman]

Reading 4.5 ph while mashing. I'm not sure if I was adding any gypsum to my mash over the last few mashed which was lowering my mash ph before I figured my ph being too low was the reason for poor efficiency.

 

[WNCBrewman]

That one teaspoon of baking soda would raise my ph. It also raises sodium 75 ppm and bicarbonate 191ppm, well roughly at 88 percent of that for a five gallon batch. So more like 66ppm sodium, and 168 bicarbonate. Do I use 5 gallon for formula or 6.25 for preboil volume? If I use preboil at 6.25 , it will lower the amount.

 

[WNCBrewman]

Soda, and really couldn't efficiently tell that my ph rose that much, but I got much better efficiency leading me to believe my ph was pushed to ideal range. Also, I could be confused that baking soda is adding that much bicarbonate

 

[Yooper]

Reading 4.5 ph while mashing. I'm not sure if I was adding any gypsum to my mash over the last few mashed which was lowering my mash ph before I figured my ph being too low was the reason for poor efficiency.

That can not be right. It just can't. Something is wrong with your strips. With the water you have, with an alkalinity of 54 ppm, it's impossible for the pH to be 4.5 unless you dumped a lot of acid in it.

 

[GotPushrods]

Either a healthy dose of acid got added (intentionally or not), or the measurement is way off.

What EXACTLY went into the mash tun, and how did you measure pH?

 

[WNCBrewman]

Some gypsum (1 tsp)to the mash which was lowering the pH some, before I figured this was a problem and why I was seeking help. Does it appear my water is fine and I should just add a top of gypsum after my mash has completed and add to the sparge or just directly right before I start to boil to add some calcium?

 

[WNCBrewman]

My straps could be off, but I was having a problem for sure because I was very weak on efficiency, and my straps were reading around 4.5.

 

[FourSeasonAngler]

I think your main problem is relying on the strips for an accurate measurement. Get good info on your water make-up and use software to dial it in.

 

[WNCBrewman]

With the profile mentioned, should I forgo the baking soda, or should I add half a teaspoon to mash which will add some sodium and will bring the bicarbonate level to 150ish...

 

[WNCBrewman]

A report from ward labs, hence why I know my profiles on the ions.

 

[g-star]

You're all over the place here, and really flying blind. No one is going to be able to give you a "magic bullet" to fix your problems.

First, your pH would have to be severely out of whack to lose 10-15 gravity points due to water chemistry alone. You may want to check your grain crush or how tightly your packing your grain bag as more likely culprits.

Second, get a good pH meter, like the Milwaukee 102. Calibrate, then take a sample of wort after 15mins of mashing and measure the pH at room temperature. This will give you an accurate value.

Gypsum will drive your mash pH down, but a teaspoon is not going to get it to 4.5 with you moderate starting alkalinity.

Based on experience, your water is decent for brewing as is and there is no need to add alkalinity when brewing a pale beer. A modest gypsum addition should get you in the right range with no other salt additions necessary.

You're making too many assumptions without accurate data, and just wildly swinging in the dark. Check your crush, grain wetting during the mash, mash temps, and get an accurate pH measurement. Then adjust your water chemistry, if necessary.

 

[Yooper]

A report from ward labs, hence why I know my profiles on the ions.

That's helpful, then. Input your data into a spreadsheet like bru'nwater or Brewer's Friend, and get a projected pH.

The strips are notoriously inaccurate as a rule, but there is one brand (colorphast?) that seems to only be off something like .3. That's still a lot, but better than the cheaper strips. An accurate pH meter is the only way to test pH better than that.

Once you get an idea of your projected mash pH with your grain bill and water, you can add the minerals you wish to get the flavor you want.

 

[Homercidal]

I would go back to using the water as-is for pale beers. Maybe use some Gypsum to get calcium and sulfates for hoppy beers.

A complete water report posting may be helpful.

And In My Opinion, pH test strips are about as useful as a truckload of dead rats in a tampon factory!

 

[divrguy]

I would go back to using the water as-is for pale beers. Maybe use some Gypsum to get calcium and sulfates for hoppy beers.



A complete water report posting may be helpful.



And In My Opinion, pH test strips are about as useful as a truckload of dead rats in a tampon factory!

I'm. laughing so hard. I'm crying! 😅


Cheers!

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

1) Start out with RO or distilled water then adjust the pH down with 88% lactic acid and add gypsum, epsom salt and calcium chloride until you get the pH and water profile you like.

B) Always use a calibrated digital pH meter to take your pH readings, the strips just don't cut it here they're not that accurate. Try and wait 15 minutes for additions to stabilize in the water before taking digital pH readings.

III) Take your pH readings at room temperature targeting the 5.4-5.6 range, at mash temperatures the same reading will translate to 5.2-5.4 due to the temperature difference.

2) If you don't always start off with a consistent water source, have a very accurate way to test pH and use software like EZ Watercalculator to the adjust salts and minerals that add flavor you will always be guessing.