Need to re pitch...can I aereate again?

[delpo]

After 72 hours of no airlock activity I checked gravity with the hydrometer and wort was still at the 1.070 OG. Pitched originally a wyest activator and did not use starter. Yeast must have been dead.

I am getting ready to pitch with a starter and my question is can/should I aereate again before re pitching.

Thanks in advance.

Delpo

 

[delpo]

Guys, common, need your help on this one.

Delpo

 

[inhifistereo]

Did you open it up and see if there is any krausen?

 

[inhifistereo]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=43635

 

[IrregularPulse]

He already mentioned it had been 3 days and he checked gravity and there had been no change. If I were you i would go ahead and re-pitch and shake. I'm no expert however. But worst case, oxygenated beer would at least be beer where-as your's is just wort.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned. What is the temperature of your carboy?

 

[tdavisii]

Three days?????? THROW IT AWAY. If you left anything out of the refrigerator for three days would you eat or drink it? my answer is no. If there were no yeast or alcohol to fend off the other little creatures that grow in wort then it is not good. A five gallon batch of beer is not worth a major health risk.

 

[delpo]

He already mentioned it had been 3 days and he checked gravity and there had been no change. If I were you i would go ahead and re-pitch and shake. I'm no expert however. But worst case, oxygenated beer would at least be beer where-as your's is just wort.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned. What is the temperature of your carboy?

Temperature has been held constant at 70 degrees since pitching. Pitched at 70 degrees.

 

[Revvy]

Have you swirled the carboy gently to re-suspend the yeast and wrapped it with a blanket? If that didn't work then I'd say go ahead and reptich some yeast but I wouldn't aerate it again....

 

[paul_h]

I'd just gently stir new yeast in. If it fires up quickly I wouldn't chuck it.
If it was infected, good chance the wild yeast would have started fermentation or you'd see stuff growing on the surface.
I wouldn't eat food out of the fridge after 1 day, yet that's fine for every brew until the yeast starts up.
I'd add new yeast because it's a small price to pay to save a beer. I'd test it in a few days, if it doesn't taste good, then chuck it.

 

[tdavisii]

I'd just gently stir new yeast in. If it fires up quickly I wouldn't chuck it.
If it was infected, good chance the wild yeast would have started fermentation or you'd see stuff growing on the surface.
I wouldn't eat food out of the fridge after 1 day, yet that's fine for every brew until the yeast starts up.
I'd add new yeast because it's a small price to pay to save a beer. I'd test it in a few days, if it doesn't taste good, then chuck it.

Again...........would anyone drink a glass of kool aid or how about a opened beer that was left out for THREE days? I really dont think it is a wise choice. Just because there is no sign of infection doesnt mean there are not bacteria growing like crazy (which there are) I would rather spend 30 bucks on another batch then that 500 dollar co-pay on my medical insurance from my trip to the hospital.

 

[Rick500]

Whether I'd eat or drink something that was left out for three days depends on the food... Bread, yes. Milk, no.

 

[Edcculus]

Again...........would anyone drink a glass of kool aid or how about a opened beer that was left out for THREE days? I really dont think it is a wise choice. Just because there is no sign of infection doesnt mean there are not bacteria growing like crazy (which there are) I would rather spend 30 bucks on another batch then that 500 dollar co-pay on my medical insurance from my trip to the hospital.

I dont think you need to go that far. It was put in under fairly sanitary conditions and has been air tight the entire time. Would you drink from a bottle of juice that has been in the store for 3 days? yes. Yea juice is probably bottled under sterile conditions, but I think its the same idea. 3 days is a long time, but if you can get some yeast to start, there is no real reason to ditch it unless it smells funky.

 

[Liquidicem]

Again...........would anyone drink a glass of kool aid or how about a opened beer that was left out for THREE days? I really dont think it is a wise choice. Just because there is no sign of infection doesnt mean there are not bacteria growing like crazy (which there are) I would rather spend 30 bucks on another batch then that 500 dollar co-pay on my medical insurance from my trip to the hospital.

That is one of the most ridiculous statement I have read in quite a while on this board. As long as proper sanitation was followed during the brew day it should be just fine. In a sealed carboy or pail there not going to be anything getting in there. I would repitch and stir gently.

Just remember, once it ferments, there is nothing that can live in beer that can kill you.

 

[delpo]

Thanks to all. Will proceed to re pitch.

 

[Revvy]

Again...........would anyone drink a glass of kool aid or how about a opened beer that was left out for THREE days? I really dont think it is a wise choice. Just because there is no sign of infection doesnt mean there are not bacteria growing like crazy (which there are) I would rather spend 30 bucks on another batch then that 500 dollar co-pay on my medical insurance from my trip to the hospital.

Can we please put this myth to bed once and for all???

No known pathogen can grow in wort/beer...It may get moldy but it wouldn't make you ill, and it's doubtful that 3 days in a mostly sealed container (except for taking grav readings) would even be enough time for moldspores to grow in it...

besides even the smallest amount of viable yeast cells would start some fermentation which would be helping to prevent anything from growing...Not to mention the fact that since fermentation can take up to 72 hours to start this beer is probably in no more risk than any of our beers where there is a long lag time...

Don't forget, that hops are a preservative to begin with...

Googling "pathogens in wort/beer" netted me this info from a food microbiologist/homebrewer on another forum...

Can you get a PATHOGEN from beer. No. NO *NO* Did I make that clear? You have a ZERO chance of pathogens in beer, wine, distilled beverages. PERIOD!

Pathogens are described as organisms that are harmful and potentially life threatening to humans. These are some 1400+ known species overall encompasing viruses, bacteria, fungi, protozoa, and helminths. Of that group, we are only interested in those that can be foodborne. Quite simply, if it can't survive in food, it isn't in beer. That knocks out all but bacteria and fungi. Viruses need very specific circumstances to be passed around... like on the lip of a glass or bottle, not the beer in it. **Ahhh...CHOOO!**

Pathogens as a rule are very fastidious beasts. Meaning that they want very specific temperatures, acidity, nutrients and other conditions to thrive.

Bacteria that *could* live in wort, cannot survive even a little bit of fermentation. There are several reasons for this. One is in the 'magic' of hops. It is the isomerized alpha acids that provide a preservative effect to the beer, which happens to inhibit pathogens! Good deal for fresh wort!

Another reason is the drop in pH from fermentation. Next, yeast emit their own enzymes and byproducts, all in an effort to make the environment hostile to other creatures. The major one is alcohol, of course, but their enzymes will break down less vigorous organisms and they become sources of trace nutrition. Now the latter is very minor compared to the effect of alcohol, but it exists! Most of the time these enzymes work on the wort, not organisms until late in the process. Good deal for beer! ...uh, wine too.

Oh, Botulism specifically... did you know that this is an anaerobic pathogen? It's toxin is one of the few that is broken down by boiling. Did you know tht it is strongly inhibited by isomerized alpha acids, even in water? Since fresh wort has a healthy amount of oxygen in it, the beastie cannot even get started, then once the O2 is used up, it doesn't have a chance against the hops or the yeast.

All that is left are a handful of acid producing bacteria that'll ruin a batch of beer. Overall, there are less than 200 organisms that can survive in beer and lend flavor effects. None of these for very long, or very often. Lambic being the sole exception, and if pathogens *could* survive, that'd be the style where you find 'em.

So, you might make a beer that'll kill your ego, but not your friends, family, co-workers or enemies.

Repeat after me Hops Are Our Friends!!!

Worst case is a sour beer....but even that is unlikey if the OP pitches today...

I still wouldn't aerate though, if you did already...if there was the slightest fermentation occurring (more than likely) you don't want to oxydize it...

 

[Saccharomyces]

After 72 hours of no airlock activity I checked gravity with the hydrometer and wort was still at the 1.070 OG. Pitched originally a wyest activator and did not use starter. Yeast must have been dead.

I am getting ready to pitch with a starter and my question is can/should I aereate again before re pitching.

Thanks in advance.

Delpo

If it is still at the OG then I would aerate well and re-pitch. If the gravity has moved at all I would not aerate. Hopefully you are pitching enough yeast this time. For 1.070 beer I'd use a 2 quart starter so if you are using yeast packs you'll need two to get a good cell count.

Good luck.

- Eric

 

[Beerthoven]

I agree with elowe. If no fermentation at all occured with the first pitch then I would consider this virgin wort and re-aerate as normal. At an OG of 1.070 I think you'll end up with a stuck ferment if you don't.

 

[jesse]

Again...........would anyone drink a glass of kool aid or how about a opened beer that was left out for THREE days? I really dont think it is a wise choice. Just because there is no sign of infection doesnt mean there are not bacteria growing like crazy (which there are) I would rather spend 30 bucks on another batch then that 500 dollar co-pay on my medical insurance from my trip to the hospital.

$500 copay for a trip to the gynecologist ???? that seems a bit high.. I'm gonna ask my girlfriend about that one.

 

[Jamo99]

$500 copay for a trip to the gynecologist ???? that seems a bit high.. I'm gonna ask my girlfriend about that one.

I think $500 is a reasonable amount for sand removal

But seriously, nothing bad that can harm us is gonna be surviving in our favorite fermented beverages. If it was, the response "Taste it" would never be a response to an "Is it infected?!?!?" thread.

I vote repitch and aerate if you're sure the gravity hasn't moved (which seems to be the case.) If fermentation hasn't started, the new yeast will need some O2 to reproduce and build up a large enough count to finish the job strong.

 

[tdavisii]

Now that everyone on the entire sight has jumped on me. Just thought the SAFEST thing to do. Rather be safe then sorry. As far as infection goes, yes the wort is sterile at the point it is cooled. However there is a lot of space above the wort that is not. This is not a jug of juice that was pasturized in its container or put in to its container hot. AS ARE MOST COMMERCIALLY SOLD DRINKS. this is sterile liquid cooled put into a container with non sterile air above it. At bare minimum there is going to be off flavors due to oxyedation. Most likely it will come out fine but there is a risk. was just giving my opinion and didnt mean to offend if i did.

And my gynecoligist tells me he removes sand for free if he gets to take pictures

 

[kingjam]

your crazy man...

 

[DeathBrewer]

i'm now leaning towards "oxidation after fermentation has begun" as being yet another boogeyman of brewing. i think it's important to minimize aeration after fermentation has begun, but it's not something you should be overly concerned with. any yeast in solution will eat up any and all oxygen they come across, even after fermentation has begun. i'd be more concerned after it is finished fermenting and sitting in secondary with too much headspace or an open top.

in other words, and IMO, you could aerate it now if you want to. however, a big healthy starter would probably work fine without any additional aeration.

 

[Donasay]

Three days?????? THROW IT AWAY. If you left anything out of the refrigerator for three days would you eat or drink it? my answer is no. If there were no yeast or alcohol to fend off the other little creatures that grow in wort then it is not good. A five gallon batch of beer is not worth a major health risk.

You do have an immune system you know, and eating or drinking anything in the fridge for more than three days happens all the time at my house. The best cheese I have ever had in my life was a brie goat cheese I accidentally left on the floor of my car for two weeks unrefrigerated. Delicious... I have also cut moldy sections off of cheese and eaten the "good" cheese underneath. What else have I had... week old pizza stored in my fridge... I have eaten hili that has sat for well over a week and a half.

Once I had bad indigestion after eating a slice of pizza on the road and the only thing to drink in my car was a 3 week old diet pepsi that I had opened and drank about 1/4 of the bottle, yea I used some of that to settle my stomach. When I go camping I drink out of rivers and streams and eat fruits growing in the wild. I have cooked fish that I have gutted in the dirt on the side of the river then used the river water to wash em off.

You really have nothing to worry about with the beer and if anything is in there which is highly unlikely it will just keep your immune system on its toes. If you can't tell I like to keep my immune system on its toes and I am healthy as an ox!

 

[Donasay]

Oh, I forgot to mention I absolutely love aged steak served "Black and Blue", has anyone ever had one of these, they are amazing. I hope someone can go through the process of explaining how they make an aged steak and what black and blue means. I will allude to it for it is only for those who are not faint of heart.

Oh and I have made the sausage, I do not fear knowing how the sausage is made!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_aged_beef

 

[tdavisii]

my kidneys hurt after all these shots im takin. OK I GIVE

 

[TheFlatline]

Again...........would anyone drink a glass of kool aid or how about a opened beer that was left out for THREE days? I really dont think it is a wise choice. Just because there is no sign of infection doesnt mean there are not bacteria growing like crazy (which there are) I would rather spend 30 bucks on another batch then that 500 dollar co-pay on my medical insurance from my trip to the hospital.

So if you don't get fermentation in the first couple days you throw the beer out? If you think about it, even after "fermentation" starts, alcohol isn't produced for another day or two. We're talking anywhere from 1-4 days of insignificant quantities of alcohol as a normal course of action.

You've sanitized for a reason, to minimize all those buggies. It's why you boil, it's why you starsan, it's why you keep your hands and equipment clean.

I'd repitch and monitor. If you're using a carboy, smell the outgas for nasty off scents like mold and watch for floating colonies.

If you get a good fermentation in the next day or so, the alcohol will kill off whatever was nasty in the beer. Remember, there are no known pathogens that can exist in beer.

 

[TheFlatline]

Now that everyone on the entire sight has jumped on me. Just thought the SAFEST thing to do. Rather be safe then sorry. As far as infection goes, yes the wort is sterile at the point it is cooled. However there is a lot of space above the wort that is not. This is not a jug of juice that was pasturized in its container or put in to its container hot. AS ARE MOST COMMERCIALLY SOLD DRINKS. this is sterile liquid cooled put into a container with non sterile air above it. At bare minimum there is going to be off flavors due to oxyedation. Most likely it will come out fine but there is a risk. was just giving my opinion and didnt mean to offend if i did.

And my gynecoligist tells me he removes sand for free if he gets to take pictures

Your logic would then suggest that every lager ever made is a game of russian roulette waiting to kill you or send you to the hospital.

Hell, EdWort tells you to leave a 5 gallon bottle of apple juice, with 2 extra pounds of sugar to boot, at 70-75 degrees for a month and a half or so for a batch of apfelwein. Think about that for a second. You're not even boiling anything. Just sanitizing and dumping.

Seriously, step back, take a deep breath, and realize that there is are several orders of magnitude more bacteria in your intestines than in the entire batch of beer you brew, including stuff that could kill you if it got into the right places. Heck, your mouth probably has, on average, way more bacteria living in it than in a swallow of homebrew.

 

[delpo]

Thanks to all for your comments. Re pitched yesterday, aereated a little, and sure enough, there are signs of fermentation this morning. The airlock is going so the new yeasties are doing their thing.

 

[Revvy]

Thanks to all for your comments. Re pitched yesterday, aereated a little, and sure enough, there are signs of fermentation this morning. The airlock is going so the new yeasties are doing their thing.

Yehaw!!!!!

Keep us posted.

 

[TexLaw]

Wow. I just read this one. We have a whole lot of people talking from vast non-experience. Here's what my advice would have been:

Aerate your starter, pitch, walk away, and enjoy the results. If you think anyone would be freaked out about the fact that your wort sat for three days or so without fermenting, don't let them know about it.

Many of you need to stop spinning out of control on speculation based on extrapolation of incomplete data, incomplete research, poor assumptions, questionable logic, and pure BS. That is all.


TL

 

[Beerthoven]

Watch out! TexLaw is on the Rout!

Honestly, though, I think reaerating the primary would have been a reasonable thing to do in this case. I don't think its a good way to start all stuck ferments, though, just those where the first yeast pitched were dead (a rare event). As for all the other stuff, bah, I didn't even bother to read it.

 

[ArcaneXor]

Three days?????? THROW IT AWAY. If you left anything out of the refrigerator for three days would you eat or drink it? my answer is no. If there were no yeast or alcohol to fend off the other little creatures that grow in wort then it is not good. A five gallon batch of beer is not worth a major health risk.

If there was something in there, it would either have started fermenting on its own or it would be killed off by the alcohol once fermentation does start. As long as it doesn't look or smell funky, it's perfectly fine.

Anyway, every batch of homebrew is infected to some extent. We sanitize, not sterilize/pasteurize.

(Disclaimer: do at your own risk, etc.)

 

[delpo]

Fermentation continues to humm along but there is a funky smell coming out of it. I have read in the forum that lager yeast can sometimes smell funky. Would that explain the smell? The yeast re pitched was Wyeast Bavaria liquid. The wort taken our for hydrometer reading before re pitching looked and smelled normal. Comments welcomed.

Thanks.

 

[Revvy]

Fermentation continues to humm along but there is a funky smell coming out of it. I have read in the forum that lager yeast can sometimes smell funky. Would that explain the smell? The yeast re pitched was Wyeast Bavaria liquid. The wort taken our for hydrometer reading before re pitching looked and smelled normal. Comments welcomed.

Thanks.

Yup, Lager Yeasts produce some mighty funky, sometimes sulphuric smells...

Everything's fine.

 

[delpo]

It has been 12 days since re pitching and airlock continues to bubble 8-12 times per minute. I have not opened the primary to check gravity due to the bubbling. Should I wait for airlock activity to subside before opening or should I go in and check gravity?

I have been disciplined so far and heeded the advice to step away from the beer.

 

[paul_h]

Check the S.G. after 2-3 weeks, if the S.G. is consistant over three days, bottle it.
Bubbling can just be caused by the ambient temp warming the beer up during the day. I normally leave my beers alone for 3 weeks, and if the S.G. is where I expect it, I bottle.