Need to purchase new wort chiller

[HoppyMaltPoet]

OK so I finally got my Blichmann 15 Gallon pot. My next purchases will be the burner and a new chiller. I currently have a 25' copper IC. This is a bit too small for the 15 Gallon pot so I want to upgrade. I have been looking at plate chillers but it seems (from other posts here) that there are mixed concerns with keeping plate chillers (I was thinking about the Therminator) clean. Right now all I do is thoroughly rinse my IC before and after every use and leave it in the last 5 - 10 minutes of my boil to sterilize.

From what I have read cleaning a plate chiller is much more involved and there is never any guarantee that you have cleaned out all the particulate matter. I have read, as soon as you are done, backwash then clean, then sterilize then backwash. Boil the plate chiller then backwash then....Or stick in the oven on the clean cycle for 30 min. then flush, clean, sterilize. This seems like a lot of effort to keep clean. I like the idea of being able to cool my wort to pitching temps in 5 min. But, is it worth it with all the hassle of cleaning these things.

I was wondering if anyone out there has used both for extended periods of time and seen any issues with cleaning the plate chillers and problems (off flavors / infections) with using these plate chillers. Also is it really that much of a hassle to clean these things in order to make sure you don't get any off flavors or infections. Do you suggest a plate chiller over an IC?

Just another note: At this time I am only planning on doing 5 and 10 gallon batches. I can't see myself doing more, but as I have seen you never know where this hobby can take you. If I got another larger IC, I would probably limit myself to the size batches I could do (again I don't plan on going bigger but you never know). The plate chiller would at least be scalable as long as I get one with sufficient surface area.

Any suggestions, experience, etc. is appreciated. Thanks guys!

 

[maida7]

I have a 15 gallon pot and make 11 gallon batches. I use a immersion chiller. I made it myself from 50' of 1/2" refrigeration grade copper tubing. I have recently upgraded to a whirlpool style chiller. Works great! Easy to clean.

 

[HoppyMaltPoet]

I have recently upgraded to a whirlpool style chiller. Works great! Easy to clean.

By this you mean the IC with a pump to circulate the wort and create the whirlpool? Like this?:

I thought about those too. Did you purchase one like that, or make it yourself? I would need a pump with this setup, correct?

 

[maida7]

yeah like that. I made it myself. The chiller will work OK without the whirlpool feature. The pump for the whirlpool is kinda pricey. But moving the wort makes the chiller work much faster. A poor mans whirlpool is a spoon. Simply stiring will get you the same effect.

If your not into making your own, morebeer.com sells them.

 

[oceanselv]

Compare prices at this place. When I bought my IC they were the cheapest. http://www.nybrewsupply.com/products/wort-chiller-copper-immersion.php#c1250

 

[slowbie]

If you decide to go with a bigger IC, then you can always use your old one as a prechiller. That's what I would do in your situation.

 

[HoppyMaltPoet]

If you decide to go with a bigger IC, then you can always use your old one as a prechiller. That's what I would do in your situation.

So you mean hooking this up inline and maybe submerging the 25' IC into an ice bath to bring down the temp of water even further? I hadn't thought of that. I think I like that. Although my ground water is pretty cool. I think I will have to test this out. See if the temperature of the water pre and post "prechiller" is significantly lower. Probably would be more so during the summer, winter I am lucky if the hose water isn't frozen.

 

[slowbie]

So you mean hooking this up inline and maybe submerging the 25' IC into an ice bath to bring down the temp of water even further? I hadn't thought of that. I think I like that. Although my ground water is pretty cool. I think I will have to test this out. See if the temperature of the water pre and post "prechiller" is significantly lower. Probably would be more so during the summer, winter I am lucky if the hose water isn't frozen.

That's exactly what I mean. I know some people have done it with success, and I could use one right now since my water doesn't stay below 70, so it takes forever to get below 80.

 

[maida7]

So you mean hooking this up inline and maybe submerging the 25' IC into an ice bath to bring down the temp of water even further? I hadn't thought of that. I think I like that. Although my ground water is pretty cool. I think I will have to test this out. See if the temperature of the water pre and post "prechiller" is significantly lower. Probably would be more so during the summer, winter I am lucky if the hose water isn't frozen.

Been there, done that. It doesn't work nearly as good as one would expect. If your having problems with the temps of your water the best method is to pump ice water thru the immersion chiller. Buy a cheap garden fountain pump. Put the pump in a bucket of ice water. Use the tap water to get it down to 100F then hook the IC up to the pump and recirculate the ice water thru the chiller and back to the bucket. This works very well.

PS: for max effectiveness, don't forget to stir your wort.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Well...what are your plans in terms of a sculpture? Form factor can be important; plate chillers are good for this.

Will you ever go electric? You won't want an IC because of the element.

Are you a no-fuss kinda guy? You may not want to clean a plate, or may not want to buy the pump.

I have all 3 types, (IC, CFC, Plate) and use them in different situations....right now I'm primarily using a plate because of it's small size and because I'm using electricity.

 

[HoppyMaltPoet]

Well...what are your plans in terms of a sculpture? Form factor can be important; plate chillers are good for this.

Will you ever go electric? You won't want an IC because of the element.

Are you a no-fuss kinda guy? You may not want to clean a plate, or may not want to buy the pump.

I have all 3 types, (IC, CFC, Plate) and use them in different situations....right now I'm primarily using a plate because of it's small size and because I'm using electricity.

Right now no sculpture. In the near/distant future I plan on going to Brewtus style or 2-tier.

I don't have any plans on going electric. Again, doesn't mean that a year or two from now I wouldn't change my mind...but right now, none.

I don't mind buying the equipment (I use my yearly bonus to get myself some toys ) and I do plan on getting a pump, I just worry that the cleaning of the plate chiller may introduce possibilities of off flavors or infections if not cleaned properly. And cleaned properly may involve too much time/effort when compared to other alternatives. What is your experience with cleaning the plate chiller? Is it really that time consuming? I just don't want to add another hour + on to my brew day for cleaning one piece of equipment. Maybe I have it wrong, and I am worrying for nothing and this is much easier to clean than I perceive it to be. I wish I could trial run one of these to test it out. Although I don't know how accurate that would be considering I may not have time to build up debris inside during a trial period. I don't know...what's your take?

 

[Irrenarzt]

I vote for Therminator. It knocks temps down incredibly fast and has an extremely small footprint. Recirc some caustic through it to clean it then finish with some star san. Never had an infection due to the plate chiller. Cleaning it becomes part of the routine and doesn't take that long. It's well worth it IMO.

It's somewhat sensitive to hop trub but not to the point where it makes it unusable or anything. If you use a whirlpool in the kettle, this solves most of that problem, hop sacks even more so. I sold my immersion chiller setup as it was clunky and hard to store as it plus the prechiller and hoses took up ALOT of space in the garage. That and it was not as effective as the Therminator.

 

[Captain_Bigelow]

Compare prices at this place. When I bought my IC they were the cheapest. http://www.nybrewsupply.com/products/wort-chiller-copper-immersion.php#c1250

Also they can custom make them cheaply too. Just shoot an email to Jeff. He made me a 50" 1/2" IC with whirlpool arm and 1/2" connections for my QD's. I think it was about $100 total.

 

[maida7]

Also they can custom make them cheaply too. Just shoot an email to Jeff. He made me a 50" 1/2" IC with whirlpool arm and 1/2" connections for my QD's. I think it was about $100 total.

That's a killer price. I think the materials for my home made version worked out to about the same.

 

[Captain_Bigelow]

Yep. That is why I ordered it from him. I couldn't buy the parts any cheaper.

Off topic... but I tested it on this thread and the whirlpooling makes a huge difference. Almost halves the time to chill.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/ic-v-ic-whirl-pooling-192012/#post2229615

Pro's...
- easy to clean
- low maintenance
- you get your entire batch below 140 quickly
- easy to tell when you get to your required temperature

Con's...
- big, takes up storage space
- takes up room in the inside of the pot, have to wrestle with the hop blocker etc
- requires pump to recirculate the wort and a valve on your kettle

 

[HoppyMaltPoet]

Con's...
- big, takes up storage space
- takes up room in the inside of the pot, have to wrestle with the hop blocker etc

these are my issues...
I have little storage left ...
And I will be getting a Hop Blocker for my kettle.

Decisions, decisions

 

[zanemoseley]

I use a 50' 1/2" OD Refrigerant tubing IC. I brewed 11 gallons of beer Sunday. The water temperature was about 60 degrees and it took right at 30 minutes to get to 75*. I did put a bit of ice in my pump bucket toward the end to get the last 5-10 degree drop. I already had a nice good sized aquarium pump though I could use. I like how simple IC's are to operate and clean. I'm sure CFC's and plate chillers are easy enough after you get used to them but I don't like the idea of pumping your virgin wort though nooks and crannies you can't inspect to see if they're 100% clean.

 

[HoppyMaltPoet]

I don't like the idea of pumping your virgin wort though nooks and crannies you can't inspect to see if they're 100% clean.

My fear exactly...although I haven't been able to find anyone complain of off flavors or infection from use of theirs. Maybe this is an unfounded fear. Maybe it is a little bit like religion. Faith means believing in what you can't see. It doesn't help much that I am an atheist.

 

[Irrenarzt]

Caustic soda or even PBW will remove all that trub with ease. I am not a man of faith and I have no issues with the plate chiller.

 

[maida7]

Both types work fine and are capable of making great beer.

 

[HoppyMaltPoet]

Both types work fine and are capable of making great beer.

Yeah, I know. I guess I was just trying to see if anyone had any bad experiences with a plate chiller. I see lots of fears but can't find any that are founded on any actual issues with using one.

When I upgraded I was sure I was going to get a PC. Then I said maybe too much work cleaning and unnecessary for 5 - 10 gallon batches so I'll get an IC. Now I am thinking ...I don't know. I think I am more undecided then when I started this thread.

 

[rico567]

If all you're doing is jumping up the pot size, then just go with the bigger IC. IMHO, KISS is best, and there's no worries about internally cleaning an IC. Just hose 'er off, and reuse next time.

 

[Captain_Bigelow]

Yeah, I know. I guess I was just trying to see if anyone had any bad experiences with a plate chiller. I see lots of fears but can't find any that are founded on any actual issues with using one.

When I upgraded I was sure I was going to get a PC. Then I said maybe too much work cleaning and unnecessary for 5 - 10 gallon batches so I'll get an IC. Now I am thinking ...I don't know. I think I am more undecided then when I started this thread.

I had a PC before I went back to an IC. I got the 40 plate one from eBay. My problem was the ground water. Where I am it doesn't really get below 70. Even with a prechiller it didn't work great. I had to resort to the water trickling out at such a slow speed, it took 30+ mins anyway to complete. If you have cool ground water I think you will be fine. Obviously no PC is going to get you any cooler than about 2 degrees from the gorund water temperature.

I also had the fear about not seeing inside and it was some extra work cleaning and sanitizing. I must say though that I have read lots of threads about the Therminator and I have not really read one negative about it. Also those Dudda chillers seem to get good reviews.

 

[HoppyMaltPoet]

So I am thinking about draining through the valve and into the PC and into a pump that will move it back up into a whirlpool IC that I have in the pot...ok maybe that is overkill. I think I will just have my cold hearted wife stand next to the pot to cool it from boil to pitching temp in 0.6 secs.

EDIT: OK so I am just mad at the SWMBO. She lets me brew ... alot... so I appologize...ok...happy....ouch!!! my head!!!

EDIT II: Sorry Honey I love you and had too much to drink. Can you find it in your heart to forgive? PWEASE?!?!?!?!

 

[ScubaSteve]

Put your pump before the plate.....

Mentioned above by Captain Bigelow, if your groundwater is a problem, no chiller will work well.

It's really a personal choice. I like equipment so I don't mind messing with a plate....but I've always kept my IC just in case

 

[ChrisS68]

I too am debating what kind of chiller to get. I'm looking at the likelyhood of going to 15 gallon batches. I considered just doing 10s, but my wife said I shouldn't kid myself and that I should just go for 15s.

I have a 25' immersion chiller. I recently did a full boil and struggled to get the temps down to a pitchable level even after one hour, so I'm a bit leery of how well even a 50' chiller will work on 15 gallon batches. Sure, steps can be taken like recirculating and/or adding a prechiller, but then I wonder if at that point maybe it would be best to just go to a Counterflow or Plate Chiller...

 

[HoppyMaltPoet]

At this point I think I may be leaning towards the PC. I am just calculating price for Whirlpool IC plus pump....over $200
Pros - easy to clean
Cons - more expensive then PC, Larger and harder to store, may get in the way using hop blocker, might not be as efficient as a PC

I think that maybe the cleaning issue isn't as big a worry as I was originally thinking and the plate chiller just seems like a better option. I don't know....let me wait a while and think it through. I am sure by tomorrow I will be back to the I think an IC would be better because...

 

[maida7]

At this point I think I may be leaning towards the PC. I am just calculating price for Whirlpool IC plus pump....over $200
Cons - more expensive then PC, Larger and harder to store, may get in the way using hop blocker, might not be as efficient as a PC

Not really more expensive. If you add a pump to your plate chiller, then the IC may end up costing less.

Yes it's bigger but not that much bigger.

What do you mean by efficient? Are you talking about speed?

Actually I think an IC is much faster cooling then a plate chiller. The IC cools the entire volume at once while the PC cools only a small portion at a time. With a IC you can have the entire batch below 140F in 3-5 minutes.