Need Recipe Feed Back

[EMH5]

I’m hoping to get some recipe feedback on a Brown Ale recipe that’s been sitting in my head. I’ve never made a brown (only an ipa and a wheat) and this will be my 3rd AG batch ever so suggestions are welcome. I’m looking for a bit nutty, a bit hoppier than norm, dark brown ale to make for this winter. So if you think I need more oats less victory, etc. let me know.

Recipe Specifics:
Batch Size (Gal): 5
Grain (Lbs): 13
~ OG: 1.071
~ SRM: 26.5
~ IBU: 48
~ ABV: 7%

Grain: 13 lbs
69.2% - 9 lbs. Maris Otter Pale Malt
9.6% - 1.25 lbs. Victory
7.7% - 1 lb. Crystal (60L)
5.8% - 0.75 lbs. Brown Malt
3.8% - 0.5 lbs. Chocolate Malt
3.8% - 0.5 lbs. Flaked Oats

Mash Schedule:
-90 min @ 152°
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Hop Amt & Schedule:
1 oz Northern Brewer (Pellet, ~10% AA) @ FWH
1 oz Northern Brewer (Pellet, ~10% AA) @ 5 min
3 oz Cascade (Dried Leaf, ~7% AA) @ FO 30 min
2 oz Galaxy (Pellet, ~14% AA) DH 7 days

Extras:
1 tab Whirlfloc @ 15 min.

Yeast/Fermentation:
Harvested - Wyeast California Common Beer - WY2112 Ferm temp 62° (that’s my basement temp. Since Ferm range is 58-68° I think that’ll be fine.) I might wrap a few blankets around it for the first 2-3 weeks to keep the temp up around 64 but again, just throwing ideas out.

I have never used this yeast before (taking it from a friend’s batch) so if anyone has any experience or hints using it please chime in.

How long should I ferment a common/brown in primary? Is it longer? I was thinking of 3 weeks in primary, 1 week in secondary and then bottle.

 

[Aristotelian]

Seems like a lot of unfermentables between the Victory, brown malt, chocolate, and crystal (27% total). What is the estimated FG and do you want it that high?

Why use Cal Common for an American Brown? Just curious what your thinking is there.

IBUs also seem high for the style. Seems like you might be covering up some of the malt and roast flavors you would be going for.

 

[hanuswalrus]

I would probably cut the Crystal down to .5 lbs and the Chocolate down to .25 lbs and add that .75 lbs to your base. I might also cut back the Victory considering you're using MO as your base. It doesn't take much Victory to get that bready/biscuity flavor, especially if MO is your base malt.

I'm also curious about your yeast choice, though I've never used the Cali Common strain. I wouldn't wrap the fermenter in blankets if your ambient temp is at 62. The temp of the fermenting wort will rise due to fermentation (most people say it can rise up to 5 degrees higher than ambient but I've read some people say up to 7 degrees higher). I think 62 would be a good temp for this strain, maybe even 58-60 for the first few days at least.

 

[EMH5]

I wanted to try the Common yeast because of the lower temp ferment (58-62). I normally use Wyeast 1318. Just trying something different plus I thought it would be fun to have a Common-Brown mash up... Commons are usually amber like so I figured a brown wouldn't be too far off. I don't adhere to a style really and I like beers to have a hoppiness so this beer won't have a style.

As for unfermentables..., this is great information for me. I just added ingredients that looked good from other recipes to this recipe but I don't know much about them.

I know Victory adds nuttiness, Crystal 40 adds color and malt, Chocolate is used in browns right? I know zero about Brown malt.

So are all the ingredients too much? What would you recommend for a hoppy, nutty brown?

 

[m00ps]

I agree with both other posts. Personally, I try to stay under 20% specialty malts, even for something like a big imperial stout. Once I started using this rule of thumb, my recipes got much better. Cutting the victory and crystal is definitely the way to go. Or Maybe taking out the brown malt. Who says a brown ale needs brown malt anyway?

 

[EMH5]

All helpful suggestions guys.

So cut the brown out, crystal 40 and victory down to .5 lbs each? Won't that cut the caramel flavor down?

Should I reduce the chocolate too?

 

[hanuswalrus]

On second thought, I might cut the chocolate out all together. A lot of people use it in brown ales just for the color, but if you're using brown malt, I don't think the chocolate is really necessary.. unless you're looking for a DARK brown ale with some roast behind it. Another malt I've seen used in brown ales is Amber malt. You could also add a touch of melanoidin (like 1-3%). I love melanoidin in a malt-forward beer.

If it were my recipe, I would try to keep the base malt closer to ~80% of the total bill, and then fill in the remaining 20% with specialty/adjunct.

For fermentation, though I've never used this yeast, I would think to keep it down around 60-62 for about the first week, and then slowly ramp up to the upper end of the yeast's range to ensure the beer finished up. Personally, I wouldn't use a secondary on a beer like this. Just bottle it up after about 3 weeks, assuming the FG is stable.

 

[EMH5]

I am still new at this and I really want to understand how you guys build recipes. 80-20% ratio. Got it.

@mOOps - Why wouldn’t you use Brown malt?

@Aristotelian - Brown Malt is a fermentable, isn’t it? (I’m not sure)

@hanuswalrus - If you remove the chocolate, what grain would you add to give the beer the dark brown hue?

I tried to simplify it. You guys are removing ingredients - do you believe that the recipe below would be muddled?

80% - 10 lbs. Maris Otter Pale Malt
4% - .5 lbs. Victory
4% - .5 lb. Crystal (60L)
4% - .5 lbs. Brown Malt
4% - .5 lbs. Chocolate Malt
4% - .5 lbs. Flaked Oats

Thanks again for all the replies.

 

[hanuswalrus]

There's a few different malts you can use to add color w/out adding the roast. Carafa Special dehusked, Midnight wheat, and Perla Negra are the one's that I've used.

 

[Aristotelian]

Sorry, I am far from an authority. Yes, I think you are right. My understanding is that Victory and Brown are roasted without the caramel process, so yes, they are not fermentable on their own but they are when combined with the enzymes from your base malt. What I do not know is how much you can have along with your base malt. 27% of specialty grains seems like a lot, both for fermentability but also from a flavor standpoint.

Sorry to have confused the thread!

 

[m00ps]

For the brown malt, I just didnt think its adding anything to the recipe. When in doubt, simpler is always better IME. I would pick either chocolate or brown malt to get you the color you want. Chocolate will lean more towards roasty while brown is more....toasty? and nutty I guess

 

[EMH5]

This is the beer I'm trying to form this recipe around: Kelsen's Brown Ale. Hoppy with nice chocolate notes... That's why I'm interested in using 7 oz of hops like Cascade, Galaxy... maybe Nugget.

 

[EMH5]

Thank you for the feedback guys. I simplified the recipe a bit and I'm going to use Wyeast 1318 too:

MO 10.4 lbs
C60 .75 lbs
Victory .5 lbs
Brown.5 lbs
Chocolate.35 lbs

I cut out the oats and kept the %below 20%...

I'm looking forward to brewing this (wed).

 

[CajunChuck]

Thank you for the feedback guys. I simplified the recipe a bit and I'm going to use Wyeast 1318 too:

MO 10.4 lbs
C60 .75 lbs
Victory .5 lbs
Brown.5 lbs
Chocolate.35 lbs

I cut out the oats and kept the %below 20%...

I'm looking forward to brewing this (wed).

I'm friggen excited for you man! PLEASE let us know how it turned out in comparison to Kelsen's Paradigm, my favorite American Brown Ale to date!

 

[CajunChuck]

How was the brew day?!?

 

[CajunChuck]

Every post has to be mod approved?! Really?

 

[EMH5]

Looking good. Reading 1.014
Pretty dry... More nut brownish not really chocolate-y. I think it may be more INBA (india nut brown ale) than American Brown.
Not as chocolate-y or dark as I was looking for but tastes good.

 

[CajunChuck]

Looking good. Reading 1.014
Pretty dry... More nut brownish not really chocolate-y. I think it may be more INBA (india nut brown ale) than American Brown.
Not as chocolate-y or dark as I was looking for but tastes good.

That looks marvelous!

 

[EMH5]

So far not so good. The flavors are a bit muddled. I feel like the hops are fighting the malt a bit and it tastes confused. I think it needs a touch more chocolate (.5) and more crystal (1.5). I think a base of 9-1.5-.5 (MO/Crystal/Choc) I'm going to let this sit and age a bit and keep cracking one open every month or so to see how the flavors marry. Hopefully over time it will get better which is the case for darker beers.

 

[CajunChuck]

Good to know. I am planing a trip to Indy to pick up 5 batches and will be experimenting soon. Thanks for the reply.

 

[EMH5]

I was lamenting about this brew to my cousin, who is a more experienced brewer, and he told me that he matures his darker beers for 2-3 months! So I guess I just need to give this more time.

 

[hanuswalrus]

It will almost certainly get better with age. Aside from my IPAs/hop forward beers, I just about always find that the last bottle (oldest bottle) of a certain batch ends up being the most enjoyable one. Give the beer some time to mellow and fire up another batch