Need Keggle Advice

[Jewrican]

So i just recently sunk some money into getting my 3 keggles cut open and welded. With this I built out my mash tun which is where this whole thread comes from.

My mash tun is a keggle and i decided to go with a custom made burlap grain bag (sewn in mesh at the bottom) and a false bottom. It is important to note that the false bottom sits on top of the bulkhead used for draining the keggle (1.8 gallons of liquid fit beneath the false bottom). The grain bag is custom made so that the bottom of it literally sits on the false bottom when in the keggle.

So here comes my issue - and i dont know if i need to chill out or if my concerns are legit. I brew 5 gallon batches (eventually MAY step up to 10) so lets say I use 15 lbs of grain for a brew at 1.25 quarts per grain. This would mean that I would use nearly 4.75 gallons of water (rounded to be easy). Now lets go back to my false bottom. At dough in, 1.8 gallons of this 4.75 gallons of water are BELOW the false bottom and not in contact with the grain all together.

1. If i recirculate this water throughout the mash using a pump, does this even matter?
2. What about if I dont?
3. Would i have to add an additional 1.8 gallons of water to my mash? How does this affect my sparge? Do I have to fly sparge with a normal amount and boil off the additional 1.8 gallons of water???

I am hoping to hear that i need to chill out and that it is fine (whether recirculating it or maybe even just vorlaufing enough), but i want honest advice

Thanks for any help you can lend. I had TERRRRRIBLE efficiency on my first batch with this setup, but it was just a disaster.. had a bunch of issues ... but it did not keep my confidence in my new investment

Oh, and my alternate option is to drop my grain bag back down to the bottom of the kettle and go back to batch sparging. I would like to keep my setup as listed above, but if it isnt going to work, then changes need to be made.

 

[dregus]

I don't have experience using a grain bad but I can imagine that might affect your efficiency. As far as the amount of water in the mash tun, I don't think you need to compensate for the 1.8 gal but it can't hurt. You will need to heat more sparge water in order to get to the desired pre-boil volume. I use ProMash to estimate all this. I hope this helps.

 

[kanzimonson]

I don't think you need to worry about the water under the false bottom, especially if you're recirculating. Remember, the enzymes and starches eventually make their way to the liquid, so it's not like you're "not using" the 1.8gal.

However, just make sure that the grain bed is at least suspended in liquid so you don't get too tight of a compaction. You may have to go up to 1.5qts. I fly sparge and this is what I use.

 

[kanzimonson]

Oh, and fly sparge with your normal amount, not 1.8gal extra.

 

[Jewrican]

thanks for the help! I really appreciate it

Anyone else feel differently about this? If not, thanks a ton

 

[92greenyj]

personally I just add the 3/4 of a gallon below my false bottom to my mash water volume just to be safe. Also since i know I will lose some in the pump line and above the valve lip. this helps compensate for that and give me a little extra wiggle room.

 

[Jewrican]

i think with only 3/4ths of a gallon that wouldnt be a huge deal, but i am pretty worried about adding 1.8 gallons of additional water... that is why i am hoping that the general consensus agrees with Kanz. But if not, i want to know that my process is flawed.

 

[Bobby_M]

Well, let's ask some more questions. Even though it takes 1.8 gallons to reach your false bottom, how much liquid is left in the tun after you fully drain it? You can test this with just water any time. In other words, does your bulkhead drain have a siphon tube to the bottom?

Are you directly heating this tun?

What is the intended purpose of the grain bag?

 

[Jewrican]

I am not sure how much is really left, but i would assume certainly no more than a pint or so. I am using a keggle with a pickup at the center of the mash tun but the pickup is not all the way on the keg bottom. I will have to measure that for you.

I am directly heating the tun (and may need to recirculate water through the mash as i am concerned about losing temps during it even with my reflectix jacket and lid i use)

The grain bag is just for ease of cleaning up, fly sparging (hopefully prevent channeling a little more since the bag has a mesh bottom and the liquid could flow through it at all points) and to filter better for clearer wort. I also feel that it may help to keep the temps a little higher throughout my mash times.

Thanks a bunch Bobby!

 

[Jewrican]

bumpity

 

[Yooper]

I still don't get it- why the bag if you've got a false bottom? It just seems like it's unnecessary and may cause more problems.

If you're not leaving much wort behind because you've got a pickup tube, then you should be fine.

 

[klyph]

If you have a false bottom, ditch the grain bag. And post some pictures of this keggle for us to evaluate.

 

[pretzelb]

I still don't get it- why the bag if you've got a false bottom? It just seems like it's unnecessary and may cause more problems.

If you're not leaving much wort behind because you've got a pickup tube, then you should be fine.

I'm no expert and I never used a keggle but I was going to ask the same thing. If you use a bag then what is the point of the false bottom?

 

[OLDBREW]

put a dip tube from the outlet port to the center of the convexed bottom. If you really want to go over board, put a piece of ss braid on the very end of the dip tube and get rid of the bag.

If you use a pump and recirculate, you want the dip tube as close to the bottom as possible, especially if you are direct heating the mashtun and use a rms setup. you can burn the liquor if the diptube sits to high.

That burlap sided bag will really be hard to clean and dry.

What you do is before you brew, fill the keggle with enough filtered water so you can get a siphon going Prime and purge the pump of air then drain the mashtun and turn it off. Shut the mashtun valve. This becomes your starting point for measuring your strike/dough-in water. Heat it up then dough in. From there you can either batch sparge or fly sparge with a full false bottom.

If batch sparging.. stir in the batch water, then set the bed, and recirculate with the pump for a few minutes before you drain/pump. This will give you a few more points and clarify the wort

Make up one of these for recirculation. You can sit it right on top of a level grainbed and it will keep you from channeling through the grainbed while recirculating