Need Help with Ignition and Valves to work like Blichmann Tower of Power

[Mudflap]

I've been scouring the forums all day, but haven't really found any direct answers for my needs...
I purchased most parts a while back to automate my brewing, had to put things on hold for almost the past year with a new baby. So I'm back brewing now trying to get this project finished, and I see that Blichmann now has a great package to do exactly what I was wanting to do with my build, unfortunately I have quite a bit of money already invested and can't really scrap it AND spend the cash for the ToP setup, so I'm looking for the build plans with part numbers for a clone or very similar to the Blichmann to finish what I started a year ago.

Here are my requirements for my build:
-all components to be high pressure propane compatible
-direct spark ignition or similar safety and windproof design (want to avoid standing pilots)

Here are the parts I already have:
-(2) 1/2" 120VAC Viton B21V solenoid valves (the ones popular on ebay)
-(2) Auber (SYL-2362) with cables and RTD sensors

So my biggest sticking point is I don't know what parts to get for the ignition/pilot side to do what I want (DSI) with what I already have and be an automatic, but safe system.
I'm hoping someone out there has built a setup like I want with these parts and can help me fill in the blanks. The closest thing I could think of to a commercial available would be the Blichmann, so build plans with p/n would also be helpful. Thanks for any help, and if there is another thread already covering this in detail, please link!

 

[Trillium]

I purchased my solenoids from valves4projects on eBay and the SYL-2342 from Auber and their Tri-clamp RTD thermocouples . The reason I went with the 2342 is that I wanted the PID to control 120 volt Fenwal spark igniters. This way I avoided having to step down the voltage to 12 vac or 24 vac.

Now is it perfectly OK to use the 12 and 24 vac igniters with your PID. The wiring will be a little more complicated due to step down transformer and latching relay, but they are a lot cheaper on EBay. Any brand will work. Just make you read the specifications to figure out what the part numbers mean.

 

[blazin]

Here are my requirements for my build:
-all components to be high pressure propane compatible
-direct spark ignition or similar safety and windproof design (want to avoid standing pilots)

Here are the parts I already have:
-(2) 1/2" 120VAC Viton B21V solenoid valves (the ones popular on ebay)
-(2) Auber (SYL-2362) with cables and RTD sensors

So my biggest sticking point is I don't know what parts to get for the ignition/pilot side to do what I want (DSI) with what I already have and be an automatic, but safe system.

Any luck with this? I have been reserching for the past few days and can't find a solution.

One idea that I had is to use a second PID controller w/ a NO relay attached to a thermocouple probe that is posistioned over the pilot light. You could then set the PID controller at a few hundred degrees, so that if the pilot light went out the thermocouple would cool to below the setpoint, opening the relay and preventing power from reaching the solenoid valve.

 

[angrybits]

I purchased my solenoids from valves4projects on eBay and the SYL-2342 from Auber and their Tri-clamp RTD thermocouples . The reason I went with the 2342 is that I wanted the PID to control 120 volt Fenwal spark igniters. This way I avoided having to step down the voltage to 12 vac or 24 vac.

Now is it perfectly OK to use the 12 and 24 vac igniters with your PID. The wiring will be a little more complicated due to step down transformer and latching relay, but they are a lot cheaper on EBay. Any brand will work. Just make you read the specifications to figure out what the part numbers mean.

How are you doing flame detection? One would want to relight the burner if it goes out, or at least shut the gas off.

 

[Mudflap]

I've actually switched gears since starting this thread because I found someone on here selling the popular spark ignition combo setup and this build is pretty well proven and documented on this forum. I didn't feel very confident in my skills for this first build to have to figure a lot of stuff out for myself on the high pressure stuff, hence the reason I originally posted this thread.

I do think there is great potential for some of you guys more savvy than I to build an awesome system with these high pressure valves and DSI and not have to go the low pressure honeywell route with stepdown 24v transformers, pilot lights, and all that jazz that's involved with this route. I mean, if Blichmann markets a system like this, it must be legit and practical, it's just beyond the scope of my skills to do my own engineering. By all means though, please continue to use this thread to kick around these awesome ideas though and get this figured out for those thinking of doing the same thing I was. I've learned a lot building my system and I will surely chime in with anything helpful I can contribute. Good luck!

 

[Mudflap]

How are you doing flame detection? One would want to relight the burner if it goes out, or at least shut the gas off.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I believe the spark ignition "probe" also doubles as flame detection/thermocouple on these units.

 

[angrybits]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I believe the spark ignition "probe" also doubles as flame detection/thermocouple on these units.

Depends on your ignition control module, but yes normally. The question for me is how to read it without buying an expensive module. I'd love to know how blichmann is doing it. My goal would be to use an MCU to to fire spark, detect flame, open solenoid, detect flame-out -> relight, etc, etc.

In the end, I will probably buy a tower of power and call it a day, I feel like I will waste copious amounts of money trying to piecemeal something togetherin DIY fashion. And the risk is, well... non-zero.

 

[medicalneedles]

FWIW: I just installed and fired up my tower of power LTE on my spankin new Breweasy system and the thing works like a charm. Having done a DIY PID Fermentation temp controller with the BrewPi I know the thrill of DIY and the flip side of agony of DIY. Given that combustion/sparks/flames are involved and the fact that I'm not even close to an electrician I went with a sure-thing. Hope that helps.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[angrybits]

Given that combustion/sparks/flames are involved and the fact that I'm not even close to an electrician I went with a sure-thing.

Yeah we're on the same page here methinks.

 

[Mudflap]

Congrats on the Blichmann ToP. I am almost done with my intermittent spark ignition build, actually got her fired up for the first time last night, and yes, this DIY build has been quite an adventure. It has been countless hours of building, grinding, cutting, wiring, drilling, etc. to get the thing done, and I am now almost there. To see the creation come to life last night, I felt like a new father! or at least Dr. Frankenstein...

Now, as rewarding as that felt, and for as much as I have learned through this build, if I had it to do all over again from ground zero...
I would absolutely, 100%, without a doubt in my mind...BUY THE BLICHMANN from the get-go! All of the countless hours, frustration, the research, the ordering and waiting on parts, the trips to Home Depot (then Lowes when HD doesn't have what you need) just wasn't worth it to me in the end, literally. I don't have my total costs sheet, but I maybe saved a couple hundred dollars with DIY (possibly not when I include the tools I had to acquire to finish the job)

Now, I will love my new brew system, it is a thing of beauty, it will eventually work great, and I can say I put my heart and soul into this thing...but at the end of the day, I'm a brewer, not an electrician, plumber, welder, HVAC guy or any other trade you have to study and become somewhat versed in to complete a build like this. I thoroughly commend Blichmann for bringing a system like the ToP to market, and the price really isn't that bad for what you get, and it's in a very slick package that is covered by a reputable company. Would totally recommend anyone that is contemplating a Brutus-type system to go the Blichmann route, but if you are a just a hardcore DIY'er and already have the skills and tools needed or just take a lot of pride in building yourself, by all mean build one, but there will be bumps in the road and plenty of time and frustration along the way.

 

[Trillium]

How are you doing flame detection? One would want to relight the burner if it goes out, or at least shut the gas off.

Sorry for late reply, been busy moving to a new city.

The Fenwal igniter has flame sensing probes just like the Blickmann Tower of Power

 

[blazin]

So after countless hours trying to figure out the best way to automate my toptier burner and adding up all of the costs, here's what I came up with:

BUY THE BLICHMANN

Yes, you can build the same thing for less (around $400 is what I came up with with flame detecting ignition controller), but for me at least, $180 extra to have a completed, proven, and warrantied unit delivered to my door four days after ordering it is worth every penny.

I brewed for the first time with it this weekend on my newly configured 2 vessel recirculating no-sparge system and it worked awesome.