Need Advice on Pekko and Rye

[whovous]

I've been meaning to use the Pekko hop and Briess rye grain freebies from the AHA in Baltimore for months now. The recipe below sort of combines a few other recipes from this forum.

5 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 72.1 %
1 lbs 6.0 oz Vienna Malt (Briess) (3.5 SRM) Grain 2 18.0 %
12.0 oz Rye Malt (Briess) (3.7 SRM) Grain 3 9.8 %
0.26 oz Pekko [15.60 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 22.1 IBUs
0.26 oz Pekko [15.60 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 5 8.0 IBUs
0.58 oz Pekko [15.60 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 25.0 min Hop 6 17.1 IBUs
1.0 pkg San Diego Super Yeast (White Labs #WLP090) Yeast 7 -
1.10 oz Pekko [15.60 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 8 0.0 IBUs

Est Original Gravity: 1.062 SG (assumes 65% efficiency)
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG (BeerSmith estimate - seems high)
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.2 %
Bitterness: 47.2 IBUs
Est Color: 5.6 SRM

Any thoughts on this one? What should I do to increase mouthfeel?

Also, I am about to bottle a Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy Double IPA fermented with third or fourth generation Conan. Would it be crazy to try to harvest the yeast and use that in place of the San Diego Super?

 

[whovous]

Anyone?

 

[Queequeg]

That will be relatively subtle rye quality but noticeable. You want a reasonable high FG with rye anyhow to counter the dryness. I made a ipa with 7% rye and pale malt with a FG around 1.010 with 70 IBU's and is was insanely bitter. After the first pint it was fine but it did seperate the men from the boys.

If going higher on the rye then you need some extra sweetness, either crystal or honey malt. Alternatively mash high to produce a FG around the 1.018 mark.

Depends what your aiming at, personally I found that even at 18% that wasn't enough rye for me. You either making an IPA with rye or a RPA.

Also I not sure 1lb of vienna is going to contribute much, I would use perhaps 2lb of Munich or 0.75lb or aromatic (unless using crystal or honey malt)

You could put in some flaked rye which works well. I have had good results using both together.

As for yeast, Denny favorite is the go to yeast for rye beers.

Never used pekko hops so can't comment on flavor however I would adjust timings and quantities. I current get very hoppy results with a big hop stand and a big dry hop. 1 x 60min addition in the boil only.

My current IPA had a 0.5Lb hop stand and will probably have close to the same quantity in the dry hop. If you went for 3oz at each step for a pale ale I think you would be on the mark.

 

[mongoose33]

I have a rye beer that includes

9# Maris Otter
3# Rye Malt
4 oz Flaked Rye
6 oz Chocolate Wheat

In your recipe I'd question whether that's enough Rye to feature it. And you might include a little wheat to help with mouthfeel and head. I use the chocolate wheat because I like the dark color it produces.

And I include a scoop of rice hulls to help w/ the hull-less Rye and Wheat.

 

[Queequeg]

^^ i would be cautious of mashing too low but otherwise recipe looks good. Not sure it needs the chocolate malt though but that's me.

No wheat needed with rye. Rye adds a lot or body and head

 

[whovous]

Boy, I wish I'd heard from you guys before I visited my LHBS

Then again, it probably would've been better still if I'd provided the right information on my recipe. There was one omission and one mistake in the recipe above. The omission is that this is a three gallon batch, not five gallons. That means this beer is a little bigger than it looks at first glance.

The mistake is that I got the rye freebie from the AHA convention wrong. It is Briess Caramel Rye, not simply Rye. The Lovibond is 60, not 3.7!

I guess this makes it a Rye IPA. I have 12 oz of Caramel Rye and 2.2 oz of Pekko hops from the AHA convention that I want to use. These are the "fixed" numbers for this recipe. I wound up buying San Diego Super and plan to build a big starter so I can save 100 billion cells for a future brew.

It now looks something like this:

Equipment: Pot ( 5 Gal/19 L) - Mini-BIAB
Efficiency: 65.00 %

5 lbs 8.0 oz Maris Otter Malt (Muntons) (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 72.1 %
1 lbs 6.0 oz Vienna Malt (Briess) (3.5 SRM) Grain 2 18.0 %
12.0 oz Caramel Rye (60.0 SRM) Grain 3 9.8 %
0.26 oz Pekko [15.60 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 22.5 IBUs
0.26 oz Pekko [15.60 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 5 8.1 IBUs
0.58 oz Pekko [15.60 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 45.0 min Hop 6 23.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg San Diego Super Yeast (White Labs #WLP090) Yeast 7
1.10 oz Pekko [15.60 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Mash Efficiency: 76.0 % Taste Rating: 30.0 Ingredients

Est Original Gravity: 1.059 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.5 %
Bitterness: 53.6 IBUs
Est Color: 11.2 SRM

My setup is eBIAB, continuous recirculating mash with no sparge. What sort of mash temp should I target? I usually aim for 150-152, but I get the impression that maybe something 156 might be better here.

Any more advice? I have other hops I could use for the 60 minute charge, including Warrior, Centennial and Cascade. Do any of these make sense? I am not especially looking for more IBUs, if that matters.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

Any more advice? I have other hops I could use for the 60 minute charge, including Warrior, Centennial and Cascade. Do any of these make sense? I am not especially looking for more IBUs, if that matters.

I would use Warrior at 60 min and add the 0.26oz Pekko to your 10 minute addition.

 

[Malric]

I had the same thought on Pekko & rye. I used the Pekko & Caramel Rye from the conference in an English brown that was a huge hit.

12 lbs Maris Otter (Crisp) (4.0 SRM) Grain 1 85.3 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.1 %
8.0 oz Caramel Rye (Weyermann) (35.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.6 %
4.0 oz Chocolate (Crisp) (630.0 SRM) Grain 4 1.8 %
3.0 oz Caramel Malt - 120L (Briess) (120.0 SRM) Grain 5 1.3 %
2.0 oz Roasted Barley (Crisp) (695.0 SRM) Grain 6 0.9 %
0.75 oz Willamette [5.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 7 11.9 IBUs
2.00 oz Pekko [15.40 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 32.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Pekko [15.40 %] - Boil 2.0 min Hop 9 3.8 IBUs
1.0 pkg SafAle English Ale (DCL/Fermentis #S-04) [23.66 ml] Yeast 10 -

 

[whovous]

I wound up doing this recipe with a few small changes and corrections. The first is that the Briess Caramel Rye with a Lovibond of 60 left my beer closer to brown than to amber.

Also, I used a quarter ounce of Warrior to bitter, and added the bittering Pekko to the 10-minute boil.

Most surprising was my efficiency. I've been having trouble with this lately. I think the combination of taking my Barley Crusher apart and putting it together again, combined with using steam for small batches of grain conditioning really made the difference.

I projected 65% efficiency but wound up somewhere in the mid-80s. Depending on attenuation, my ABV should be in the mid to upper 8% range, making this a totally unexpected Imperial Rye PA. The brew is starting to look pretty and clear in the Catalyst Fermenter. It is probably silly, but I like how the very clear sides let me view how active fermentation gets below the surface.

 

[markstache]

I had the same thought on Pekko & rye. I used the Pekko & Caramel Rye from the conference in an English brown that was a huge hit.

I was splitting up one pound of pekko into smaller packets tonight and, from the smell, thought it would be great in an English brown. Glad to hear my intuition is correct.

 

[BrotherBock]

How did the pekko hop character turn out? I'm planning on doing a pekko brew soon.

 

[whovous]

This was sort of a weird brew for me. I think the malt bill turned out spectacularly well, and I will probably use something similar again. However, I mixed in too much sugar to bottle, and did not mix it well enough out of fear of adding too much oxygen to the beer. As a result, i got a couple of bottle bombs, and ALL of the bottles required a lot of care to pour. I resorted to using a 24 ounce glass for a 12-ounce bottle on some occasions. Another effect of over-carbing was that popping the top over led to stirring up the yeast in the bottom of the bottle. Not a huge effect, but not what I wanted, either.

But you asked about the Pekko hop, and I didn't give an answer on that, did I? That is because I thought it was completely non-descript. Maybe I've become addicted to juice bombs, but I found it difficult to separate out much unique hop character at all. Still, the malt bill was pretty tasty.

 

[mmahu]

I have used Pekko hops in an IPA. They are very potent at 17.5 AA and for me, they left a herbal, minty, juniper like aroma, which is not unpleasent, but I would assume it needs to be paired with a specific recipe/taste you want to obtain.