Need advice for my first starter.

[baldmagicguy]

This week I plan on starting a Peanut Butter Cup Stout Extract Beer Recipe Kit.

I ordered 2 packs of Safale US-05 yeast and a 4 pack of Northern Brewers Fast Pitch. I have a 2 liter flask and a stir plate. I plan on doing a yeast starter before brew day. I, obviously, don't want to under pitch and I'm concerned about over pitching. While I'm not a complete newbie to brewing, this will be the first time making a yeast starter. Thus... my questions...

The OG of this kit is supposed to be 1.085

Should I use 2 cans of Fast Pitch, 32 ounces of water, and *both* packs of yeast? I'm concerned that this will create too much yeast.

Thanks for your help.

 

[odie]

Not the answer you want but I would just dry pitch a single US-05 on that.

 

[baldmagicguy]

Not the answer you want but I would just dry pitch a single US-05 on that.

Really? Wouldn't that be under pitching? (Thanks for your reply, BTW.)

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Really? Wouldn't that be under pitching?

What batch size are you brewing?

 

[baldmagicguy]

What batch size are you brewing?

5 gallons

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

For a 5 gal OG 1.085 using US-05 with a dry pitch, I'd be OK using a single 11.5 gram packet. Disclaimers: not all yeast packages are 11.5 grams, some dry yeast strains have a noticeably different recommended pitch rate.

Should I use 2 cans of Fast Pitch, 32 ounces of water, and *both* packs of yeast? I'm concerned that this will create too much yeast.

I wouldn't use both packages.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

The OG of this kit is supposed to be 1.085

Personally, around the 1.070-ish range is where I start to put more effort into my yeast. I would not just pitch one pack of dry yeast myself into that high gravity of a beer. For the price of a pack of US-05 I would be tempted to just pitch them both (or at least 1.5 packs). I don't recall ever making a starter with a dry yeast pack, but maybe 1 pack and a starter would be another option.

 

[baldmagicguy]

Wow! Didn't expect such a wide range of opinions on this. Hang on while I make some popcorn and see how this plays out.

Thanks to everyone for chiming in. I'm still confused as hell, but I'm learning.

 

[odie]

well you know...opinions are like *******

Personally, I've done a few RIS with a single dry US-05 and hit 13-14% without issues...I ain't skerd

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@baldmagicguy : you may want to listen to some of the video presentations that Fermentis and/or Lallemand posted within the last year. IIRC some of them had Q&A on starters with dry yeast (sorry, don't have specific titles or links). Also, at Lallemand's "best practices" downloads page, there is at least one download that talks about making a starter with one of their dry lager strains.

 

[baldmagicguy]

@baldmagicguy : you may want to listen to some of the video presentations that Fermentis and/or Lallemand posted within the last year. IIRC some of them had Q&A on starters with dry yeast (sorry, don't have specific titles or links). Also, at Lallemand's "best practices" downloads page, there is at least one download that talks about making a starter with one of their dry lager strains.

Thanks. I'll check them out.

 

[Alex4mula]

Bottom line is I never hear of people doing starters with dry yeast. Best case you rehydrate it. US-05 is super easy to use.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I never hear of people doing starters with dry yeast.

It is talked about here (and on other forums) from time to time. This web search should get you started.

 

[Shermwormbrew]

It would probably be fine with the 1 packet as mentioned but I wouldn’t waste my time making beautiful high gravity wort to under pitch or intentionally increase lag time. I make starters with dry yeast all the time. It works fine. It grows more cells and helps start fermentation faster. I would do 1 pack with at least a 1000ml starter. Hopefully you have a stir plate if not throw both packs in.

 

[Lacasse93]

If you are super concerned you can always pitch one packet and then throw in some yeast nutrient for some piece of mind

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Bottom line is I never hear of people doing starters with dry yeast.

You obviously don't live in Australia! There are many parts of the world where dry yeast isn't cheap, so starters are commonly used (US-05 is about $6 a pack where I live). Starters work well with dry yeast and starter wort costs less than $1 per liter.

Having said that, in this case I'd just use two packs of dry yeast. Except I don't like US05, so I'd use something else. But then it's a peanut butter beer which already tastes like sh#t, so US05 can't make it any worse (says the guy that loves Brett beers).

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

some yeast nutrient for some piece of mind

stressful brewing environments is a concept that is covered in current product information (and recent online videos) from Lallemand and Fermentis (and maybe others as well). In those environments, yeast nutrients are often suggested as a way to make better beer.

And, FWIW, Lallemand has a "pitching rate calculator" that takes OG into account.

 

[Alex4mula]

You obviously don't live in Australia! There are many parts of the world where dry yeast isn't cheap, so starters are commonly used (US-05 is about $6 a pack where I live). Starters work well with dry yeast and starter wort costs less than $1 per liter.

Having said that, in this case I'd just use two packs of dry yeast. Except I don't like US05, so I'd use something else. But then it's a peanut butter beer which already tastes like sh#t, so US05 can't make it any worse (says the guy that loves Brett beers).

Here US-05 is near $5 lately. At least to me it is nothing for a 5 gal batch. I wouldn’t dare to ruin that amount of beer and all the effort for not spending another $5-$6 on a yeast pack. If you can do a starter with it even better. Still after 2+yrs here reading all over this is my first time hearing about dry yeast starters compared to the rest. Something new to learn. That’s the cool thing about brewing. There are a million ways to do it ;-)

 

[baldmagicguy]

Thanks for all the replies. You guys are so knowledgeable and entertaining to boot!

Cheers!

 

[CascadesBrewer]

And, FWIW, Lallemand has a "pitching rate calculator" that takes OG into account.

Assuming that Safale US-05 is pitched at the same rate as Lallemand, that calculator says (for 5.0 gallons of 1.085 wort) "Yeast needed: 20.11 grams". Raise that to 22 grams if you are starting with 5.5 gallons of wort.

I don't think you will find any credible source that says 1 pack of US-05 into a 1.085 wort is a "correct" pitch rate. You will also likely find many brewers, myself included, that would say that pitching an adequate amount of healthy yeast is in the Top 5 strategies for making better beer. It is #3 in John Palmer's list in "How to Brew".

I have underpitched beers and they came out great. I have also underpitched beers and has very long lag times, extended fermentations, and I have also had issues with fusel alcohols on big beers. It just seems silly to gamble with this beer, especially when the OP already has 2 packs of yeast on hand.

@baldmagicguy: Just pitch the two packs of yeast.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Be aware that there are (or where) some Lellemand strains (e.g. New England) with a noticeably pitch rate than many of the other strains (e.g. Nottingham).

 

[Shermwormbrew]

Assuming that Safale US-05 is pitched at the same rate as Lallemand, that calculator says (for 5.0 gallons of 1.085 wort) "Yeast needed: 20.11 grams". Raise that to 22 grams if you are starting with 5.5 gallons of wort.

I don't think you will find any credible source that says 1 pack of US-05 into a 1.085 wort is a "correct" pitch rate. You will also likely find many brewers, myself included, that would say that pitching an adequate amount of healthy yeast is in the Top 5 strategies for making better beer. It is #3 in John Palmer's list in "How to Brew".

I have underpitched beers and they came out great. I have also underpitched beers and has very long lag times, extended fermentations, and I have also had issues with fusel alcohols on big beers. It just seems silly to gamble with this beer, especially when the OP already has 2 packs of yeast on hand.

@baldmagicguy: Just pitch the two packs of yeast.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

So what do people use for credible sources (other than HomebrewTalk) for pitching dry yeast?

What sources did you use to decide to oxygenate (or not) wort before pitching dry yeast?

What sources did you use to decide to use (or not) yeast nutrient with dry yeast?

What other sources did you use? If those sources are older (e.g. the book Yeast), how did you confirm specific pieces of information are still valid?

At the moment, I'm interested in the sources, not individual people's processes. I'm also interested in reviewing the sources that are mentioned (so please don't argue about the perceived quality of each others sources ).

 

[Shermwormbrew]

My source, which is the BEST, is trial and error. You have to brew a try things.
JK about the BEST. Haha. But yeah just try things.

 

[Sunfire96]

I would pitch 2 packs of US05 dry, no starter or rehydrating