Nearing AG move...need advice

[EROK]

My vote is for getting about 4 corny kegs and a keezer w/3-4 tappers !!

 

[Johnvodka]

that's what she said!

Heyoooooooo!!!

 

[hops2it]

Well I got the cooler mash tun completed.

I used a Coleman Xtreme 5 from WalMart and wouldn't necessarily recommend this particular model because of its elevated outlet position (mine is the one with wheels). I might try to replumb the connection to drain to lower it somewhat. I end up with about 0.4 gallons of dead space due to the design. I ended up going with copper because I had some spare parts on hand but otherwise would probably have gone with cpvc as another poster mentioned.

Well, I think I'm ready to give it a shot now.

 

[Mysticmead]

Well I got the cooler mash tun completed.

I used a Coleman Xtreme 5 from WalMart and wouldn't necessarily recommend this particular model because of its elevated outlet position (mine is the one with wheels). I might try to replumb the connection to drain to lower it somewhat. I end up with about 0.4 gallons of dead space due to the design. I ended up going with copper because I had some spare parts on hand but otherwise would probably have gone with cpvc as another poster mentioned.

Well, I think I'm ready to give it a shot now.

flip the manifold over so slots are down

 

[hops2it]

flip the manifold over so slots are down

I'll do that, just showing the slots for the pic.

Also, just got Beersmith 2.0 installed and I have some questions about the equipment portion as it relates to the mash tun:

1.) Should I use one of the default setups even though it doesn't really reflect my setup or make my own? I have a 10.5 gallon s/s pot and a 10 gallon cooler but I'm only making 5-6 gallon batches.

2.) How important is the cooler weight? Do I just weight it as is, or do I need to take the valve/manifold/etc out of there to weight just the bare cooler?

3.) What's the difference between "loss to trub chiller", "fermentor loss", and dead space? Seems like they're all getting at the same thing.

 

[JuanMoore]

1.) Should I use one of the default setups even though it doesn't really reflect my setup or make my own? I have a 10.5 gallon s/s pot and a 10 gallon cooler but I'm only making 5-6 gallon batches.

Your choice. Creating your own will be more accurate, but you can probably get pretty close using one of the default ones. I think one of the defaults is a 10 gal BK and 10 gal cooler, so you could use that and then uncheck the "base volumes on my equipment" box.

2.) How important is the cooler weight? Do I just weight it as is, or do I need to take the valve/manifold/etc out of there to weight just the bare cooler?

The cooler weight is asked to determine how much of the strike water heat will be lost when it's added to the cooler. If you don't pre-heat your mash tun and are relying on the brewsmith strike temp numbers then it's pretty important. If you pre-heat the tun or don't rely on the program for your strike temp then it doesn't really matter. Since the manifold is part of the thermal mass that will be sucking up heat, you need to leave it in for the weight.

3.) What's the difference between "loss to trub chiller", "fermentor loss", and dead space? Seems like they're all getting at the same thing.

They're all volume losses, but that does not mean they're the same thing. For example, compare a beer brewed on a system with 1 gal deadspace in my MLT and 1 cup lost to trub at the end of the boil, to one brewed with 1 cup of MLT deadspace and 1 gal lost to trub. Even though the end volumes would be the same they would be different beers.

 

[marcycaulkins]

With the cooler completed, I think you have all the basics in place. Go ahead, make some beer, then you will figure out what additional toys you want/need.

(my vote, though, if you don't already have one is a grain mill so you can buy your grains bulk and crush your own)

 

[hops2it]

They're all volume losses, but that does not mean they're the same thing. For example, compare a beer brewed on a system with 1 gal deadspace in my MLT and 1 cup lost to trub at the end of the boil, to one brewed with 1 cup of MLT deadspace and 1 gal lost to trub. Even though the end volumes would be the same they would be different beers.

Thanks for all the info. I guess I'm wondering how exactly to measure each of the loss types. I believe I've already correctly measured the dead space by filling above the manifold with water, then draining out until it stops and measuring the leftover volume. No idea how to calculate the other two losses the Beersmith accounts for though.

 

[SHOOK]

Well I got the cooler mash tun completed.

I used a Coleman Xtreme 5 from WalMart and wouldn't necessarily recommend this particular model because of its elevated outlet position (mine is the one with wheels). I might try to replumb the connection to drain to lower it somewhat. I end up with about 0.4 gallons of dead space due to the design. I ended up going with copper because I had some spare parts on hand but otherwise would probably have gone with cpvc as another poster mentioned.

Well, I think I'm ready to give it a shot now.

also another tip:

get some hightemp vinyl or silicone tubing and attach it to the drain.. that way you can use the siphon to suck up the wort since your outlet is higher then the manifold.

 

[hops2it]

also another tip:

get some hightemp vinyl or silicone tubing and attach it to the drain.. that way you can use the siphon to suck up the wort since your outlet is higher then the manifold.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying there but I'm interested to know. You mean ditch the copper connection to the drain port altogether and replace with soft tube from the inside of the cooler?

 

[JuanMoore]

Thanks for all the info. I guess I'm wondering how exactly to measure each of the loss types. I believe I've already correctly measured the dead space by filling above the manifold with water, then draining out until it stops and measuring the leftover volume. No idea how to calculate the other two losses the Beersmith accounts for though.

Some of it you may not know until you've brewed with your system once. It sounds like you've already brewed extract batches before, so you should know what your fermenter loss is. If you put 5.5 gal into your fermentor, how much ends up in your bottling bucket or keg? The difference is your fermentor loss.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying there but I'm interested to know. You mean ditch the copper connection to the drain port altogether and replace with soft tube from the inside of the cooler?

He's talking about on the outside of the mash-tun, not the inside. If you just open the valve and let the liquid pour straight into the BK it will stop draining as soon as the liquid reaches the level of your drain. If you drain through a hose of some sort that extends below the bottom of the mash tun it will create a siphon and suck the wort out from below the level of your drain.

 

[hops2it]

He's talking about on the outside of the mash-tun, not the inside. If you just open the valve and let the liquid pour straight into the BK it will stop draining as soon as the liquid reaches the level of your drain. If you drain through a hose of some sort that extends below the bottom of the mash tun it will create a siphon and suck the wort out from below the level of your drain.

Ahh sure, yes I have a hose with a barbed fitting that will drain the mash tun. I figured the siphon might break at the high point anyway since its not airtight, the connections are just loose fit together. It might work anyway though I will certainly give it a go. I didn't have the hose connected when checking dead space so it'd be great if it works that way.

 

[bottlebomber]

take a look into BIAB..no MLT or HLT needed.. that 10.5 gallon kettle would be perfect. just add a grain bag made from voile (local fabric store will carry it) or even the large paint strainers from home depot.

If you are serious about all grain I really can't recommend this method... I've been doing it recently, and its really more of a method for an extract brewer who gets a hankering to make a grain batch. Definitely not something you want to do a lot. The bags will break down quickly under the weight of the grain, the wet bag is considerably heavy, and you get way more funk in your BK than you would using a MT with a false bottom. I have almost identical equipment to you, and am right on your heels in the persuit of AG

 

[JuanMoore]

Ahh sure, yes I have a hose with a barbed fitting that will drain the mash tun. I figured the siphon might break at the high point anyway since its not airtight, the connections are just loose fit together. It might work anyway though I will certainly give it a go. I didn't have the hose connected when checking dead space so it'd be great if it works that way.

Try re-evaluating your dead space with the hose on. I'd bet even with dry fit connections that it gets some siphon action going.

 

[SamuraiSquirrel]

It will probably hold siphon better than you think. I had a setup where the drain hole was a good six inches above the bottom of the cooler and connected to the manifold by a piece of vinyl tubing. That thing would suck out every last drop of water (manifold was simply dry fitted together). It probably had less then a half cup of dead space.

 

[Vance71975]

I'm gearing up for my first AG effort and I want to get opinions on where I stand and what equipment additions would make life easier at this point. I will say I'm not interested in pumps at this time. Here's my current list of equipment:

-10.5 gallon s/s pot with 1/2" s/s ball valve and Blichman thermometer
-5 gallon aluminum pot
-1/2" OD copper immersion chiller recently completed
-Bayou single stand burner (2 ft height?)
-Rectangular cooler mash tun not yet purchased/completed
-4 fermenting buckets
-1 bottling bucket w/ spigot

Was figuring on around a 50qt rectangular cooler with copper manifold not yet purchased/fabricated, open to changes if recommended otherwise. I bottle all my beer and typically only doing 5 to 5.5 gallon batches. Here's the main question with all this in mind...

What ELSE do you recommend? Should I be using the kettle for a HLT or should I get something like an upright cooler for heat retention purposes? I feel like I'm still missing something here. I'm trying to think about how to make things the easiest when it comes to adding mash water, then sparge water, then mashout water...just seems like a lot of different water at varying temps to be juggling with my current equipment. There's gotta be a way to streamline this so it's less hectic. Also may be worth mentioning that I was planning to batch sparge.

Thanks for any opinions.

My one piece of advice is this, Make sure you have a HUGE mash tun! I made my mash ton out of a 5g round cooler, and it is fine for Session and avg gravity ales, but i cant get much more than 12 to 15 lbs of grain in it so big beers are a real pain!

 

[Mysticmead]

If you are serious about all grain I really can't recommend this method... I've been doing it recently, and its really more of a method for an extract brewer who gets a hankering to make a grain batch. Definitely not something you want to do a lot. The bags will break down quickly under the weight of the grain, the wet bag is considerably heavy, and you get way more funk in your BK than you would using a MT with a false bottom. I have almost identical equipment to you, and am right on your heels in the persuit of AG

BIAB is serious all grain. it's just a less expensive method. I have beers that have won medals in contests that were BIAB. yes you have more in the BK, but the beer ends of crystal clear. as far as the bag being heavy, if you can't lift 30lbs straight up and hold it for a minute or 2 then you need to hit the gym. it drains fast and gets lighter as it drains. wish my kids got lighter the longer I held them.. If it hasn't worked out for you that's fine, its not for everyone. but to say its for the extract brewer that gets a hankering to give AG a try is just bad information on your part.

 

[hops2it]

I'm good to go with a 50 qt mash tun and thanks to Samurai and Juan for the siphon info, sounds like this is going to work out just fine with limited dead space after all.

 

[bottlebomber]

BIAB is serious all grain. it's just a less expensive method. I have beers that have won medals in contests that were BIAB. yes you have more in the BK, but the beer ends of crystal clear. as far as the bag being heavy, if you can't lift 30lbs straight up and hold it for a minute or 2 then you need to hit the gym. it drains fast and gets lighter as it drains. wish my kids got lighter the longer I held them.. If it hasn't worked out for you that's fine, its not for everyone. but to say its for the extract brewer that gets a hankering to give AG a try is just bad information on your part.

Its serious all grain with a chuckle at the end.... when you drain your wort and find there to be 4 inches of trub, hot and cold break in there with your beer. Sure you can drain it all... wish they made 8 gallon carboys for the BIAB brewer. I didn't question the quality of your beer, sir. Im sure it tastes like God brewed it. Im just saying that if someone is gearing up to make brewing a semi-permanent hobby and wants to step beyond extract, then BIAB is not really a destination. I view it as a stepping stone. BTW I have a BIAB batch in the fermentor right now. Unless you are terminally poor, or really short on space, its pretty limited. And while holding up a 40 lb bag of grain isn't a problem for me, it may be for some, and it definitely is a problem for the bag. A $15 nylon bag lasts 3 brews or so. By the time you've gone through 10 of those you may have well bought a pretty nice mash tun. Just my opinion of course

 

[SamuraiSquirrel]

Lol this thread was never about BIAB vs "serious all grain" .......... Let's not cloud up this guys thread with debate over that. Some people use hop bags, some throw the hops in. Some secondary, some don't ..... yada yada yada it's all been beat to death lol.

Good luck to the OP with the new equipment. It'll work fine and at the same time you'll find stuff you want to change if you were to rebuild it all over again. It's just the nature of the hobby. It'll put out some good beer. If it doesn't then it's not likely the tun's fault

Look elsewhere in your process if the beer is less than stellar. Cooler shape, false bottom vs manifold, 72% eff vs. 82% efficiency ... etc. etc. etc. is not going to be the difference between crappy beer and award winning beer.