NE IPA Dry Yeast

[KLITE]

On friday i shall try a neipa made with this. The brewer claims it was not as estery as he was expecting.

Tbh Ive had really great results with london esb, first time i used it i severely underpitched by almost 50% and the beast still reached final gravity in 3 days,controlling its initial vigurous fermentation is essential to avoid ester volatilisation. If the info of the aroma fact sheet is correct, it should a tropical fruit bomb since i has 3 marks for tropal fruit aroma, london esb only has 1 and at higher ferm temps it stinks!

 

[trav77]

Justin Bieber and Usain Bolt share certain stretches of DNA such as a Y chromosome

Going to need a citation on this. I'm skeptical.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Seems the Lallemand dry New England yeast was officially launched on 13 November, https://twitter.com/LallemandBrewUK is filling up with examples of breweries using it for production brews, including the likes of Cloudwater. They've also got a new dry Lactobacillus plantarum, which is the first in a new WildBrew range that presumably will include the Brett mentioned above.

Tech specs are here : http://www.lallemandbrewing.com/product-details/lalbrew-new-england/

In Lallemand’s Standard Conditions Wort at 20°C (68°F) LalBrew™ New England yeast exhibits:

Fermentation that can be completed in 7 days, a bit slower than most ale strains. This is a normal and perfectly natural characteristic of this strain.

Medium to high attenuation and Medium flocculation.

Neutral to slightly fruity and estery flavor and aroma.

The optimal temperature range for LalBrew™ New England yeast when producing traditional styles is 15°C(59°F) to
22°C(72°F).

Lag phase can be longer when compared with other strains, ranging from 24-36 hours.

This is my first sighting of it available to UK customers (and in stock!) but at GBP82.50 for a 500g pack to trade customers, it's twice the price of eg Nottingham. No sign of the 11g packs yet.

 

[thehaze]

Here as well, but not yet on stock: https://www.hopsishop.com/product/lalbrew-new-england-east-coast-ale-yeast/

 

[stz]

I've brewed NEIPA's with windsor, london esb, so4, us05, nottingham and a house wet yeast. Biggest drawbacks with windsor (worse) and london esb (marginally better) is the lack of flocculation, it'll look like milk (which is fine) but without significant fining/cold crashing efforts can throw yeast in the glass on serving (which is not fine). Windsor can be done in under 36 hours and london esb under 58 which for me translates to needing great temperature control as the temperature rockets.

I prefer the flavour of windsor over london esb and without significant simple sugars windsor doesn't like finishing below 12 (but is reliable) and the london esb usually stops at between 14 and 16. The trick with these is to make sure a relatively large portion of extract come from sugar to avoid the high FG, it will ferment dry and don't try to mash high or bring anything like crystal to the mix to avoid beer which finishes at 20+!

so4 and us05 just do the work and are relatively neutral, nottingham and our wet yeast (hales/gales derived strain) also reliable, but not so neutral. All will easily drop clear given adequate handling though nottingham can produce a slightly tart finish and our wet yeast a dry (overtly bitter) minerally (sessionable) quality neither work quite as well as the slightly sweet and fruity windsor. Windsor (lesser extent) and london esb (much more) seem to smell strongly sulphurous immediately after fermentation though this clears up. I would be interested to compare the new NEIPA yeast, but would be unlikely to use london esb again over windsor.

 

[KLITE]

I've brewed NEIPA's with windsor, london esb, so4, us05, nottingham and a house wet yeast. Biggest drawbacks with windsor (worse) and london esb (marginally better) is the lack of flocculation, it'll look like milk (which is fine) but without significant fining/cold crashing efforts can throw yeast in the glass on serving (which is not fine). Windsor can be done in under 36 hours and london esb under 58 which for me translates to needing great temperature control as the temperature rockets.

I prefer the flavour of windsor over london esb and without significant simple sugars windsor doesn't like finishing below 12 (but is reliable) and the london esb usually stops at between 14 and 16. The trick with these is to make sure a relatively large portion of extract come from sugar to avoid the high FG, it will ferment dry and don't try to mash high or bring anything like crystal to the mix to avoid beer which finishes at 20+!

so4 and us05 just do the work and are relatively neutral, nottingham and our wet yeast (hales/gales derived strain) also reliable, but not so neutral. All will easily drop clear given adequate handling though nottingham can produce a slightly tart finish and our wet yeast a dry (overtly bitter) minerally (sessionable) quality neither work quite as well as the slightly sweet and fruity windsor. Windsor (lesser extent) and london esb (much more) seem to smell strongly sulphurous immediately after fermentation though this clears up. I would be interested to compare the new NEIPA yeast, but would be unlikely to use london esb again over windsor.

Interesting to hear a different experience of the esb. I for one have had beautiful smells from it at high temps, around 23ish and lower to 17 after 24 h, over ripe apples with a complementing generic tropical fruit almost in equal proportions.
You are correct on its attenuation, i always throw in a tiny bit of sugar to help it dry out. Last brew i didnt really account for high gravity and probably ended up pitching at 50%, the ****** still went from 1079 to 1020 in 3 days, 1079 to 1044 in 24h. No hot alcohols can be perceived when tasting, i suppose from the abrupt temperature fall.

 

[KLITE]

I tried a neipa yesterday made with the new lallemand neipa yeast and meh, i was expecting a ton more. Neutral if anything slightly alcoholic but thats it. And i know the brewer tried to get those esters going.... I think its a miss.

 

[thehaze]

I tried a neipa yesterday made with the new lallemand neipa yeast and meh, i was expecting a ton more. Neutral if anything slightly alcoholic but thats it. And i know the brewer tried to get those esters going.... I think its a miss.

Hmmm... That would be a shame if this yeast does not add anything to the NEIPA style.

But from the spec sheet, it could possibly be a new US-05, due to its similar flocculation, high attenuation and the neutral to slightly fruitty profile. I am yet not able to get the smaller sachets, only the bigger 500gr pack, but when it will be available, I will brew some batches to see what it got.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I would not read much negative into it. A single report devoid of any specific details should not discourage anyone, but perhaps should raise eyebrows.

 

[thehaze]

I am not. I want to try it myself at home and also want to hear more experiences from both homebrewers and commercial brewers, which had tried this yeast. But I guess we have to wait some months for that to happen.

I think the summer of 2018 will probably be the time where the yeast has been on the shelves enough, to draw some *hopefully* meaninful conclusions.

But I am still psyched for this yeast. I would kinda like this yeast to be the new US-05, but with a better ester formation and flavours.

 

[KLITE]

One

I would not read much negative into it. A single report devoid of any specific details should not discourage anyone, but perhaps should raise eyebrows.

One of the details i can provide is that brewer much prefers vermont ale yeast over this one... I was excited to try it to but have lost it after being underwhelmed, perhaps had too high expectation. Btw this is one of the best brewers in europe making neipa this side of the pond, easily top 5.

 

[thehaze]

One


One of the details i can provide is that brewer much prefers vermont ale yeast over this one... I was excited to try it to but have lost it after being underwhelmed, perhaps had too high expectation. Btw this is one of the best brewers in europe making neipa this side of the pond, easily top 5.

So Cloudwater from UK? I know they used both, and their DIPA reiterations are among the best in the world.

 

[KLITE]

So Cloudwater from UK? I know they used both, and their DIPA reiterations are among the best in the world.

No man, though those guys have done colabs with the brewery here.
Tbh the beers ive tried from cloudwater here in spain werent anything spectacular, though most certainly fine specimens. From the uk ive had very good beers from Beavertown.

 

[couchsending]

This is the dry form of Conan, which is half the original mixed culture of Ringwood. It has all the exact characteristics of Conan from esters, to flocculation, to timing, attenuation, etc. It is a hard yeast to use unless you take the time to learn it’s exact ins and outs.

 

[TDL91]

No man, though those guys have done colabs with the brewery here.
Tbh the beers ive tried from cloudwater here in spain werent anything spectacular, though most certainly fine specimens. From the uk ive had very good beers from Beavertown.

Assuming you mean Garage Brewing in Spain? I’ve had a couple of their beers. Decent IPA’s. Cloudwater’s DIPA’s are probably the pinnacle of DIPA’s in the UK, apart from maybe Verdant. Both of which seem to be using this yeast at the moment. In a DIPA it tastes really good, in an IPA it tastes fairly neutral from my experience.

Can’t wait to experiment with it though once it is out.

 

[couchsending]

One of the “founders” of this “style” just said recently he uses 1272 which is the same yeast as BRY-97. So that would be another good option.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Are any USA based LHBS's carrying 11g packs of the new Lallamand LalBrew New England Ale yeast yet?

 

[thehaze]

I could not find any. I cannot find any in Europe either, but I think it's coming in spring/summer, maybe sooner.

 

[TDL91]

I could not find any. I cannot find any in Europe either, but I think it's coming in spring/summer, maybe sooner.

Saw this on Twitter earlier, although this is UK based.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I thought this might happen - a shop in Northern Ireland has got bored of waiting for the "official" 11g packs, so has started breaking up 500g bricks and packaging 25g samples for sale at effectively the 500g price :
https://www.geterbrewed.com/lalbrew-new-england-yeast-11g/ (no affiliation)

As you can see they're anticipating moving to the official 11g packs once they arrive.

Whilst we're on the subject, I've been thinking about the Mangrove Jack's M15 Empire Ale. It's meant to be similar to the old M03 Newcastle Dark Ale - one theory linked it to Lallemand/Danstar Manchester, which has been discontinued so MJ would have had to find another source.

M03 was widely assumed to come from Newcastle Brown Ale, which would link it to Brewlab's F40 which was meant to be a very characterful, estery yeast.

The Manchester connection seems to have led the internet to think it was connected to White Labs WLP038 Manchester which is a British saison yeast, probably POF+ and related to John Smith's. Again that would imply lots of esters.

So if people are getting impatient for a dry yeast for NEIPAs, it might be worth giving M15 a go????

 

[malhal]

One thing to consider is Kimmich says 1st gen doesn't have the peachy tropical aroma but 2 through 10 do. So when they get to gen 6 the re-order the yeast, from whoever their supplier is be it dried or liquid. Say they are using Nottingham and their supplier is Lallemand who are in on it then this new Vermont product might be gen 1. If they harvested from cans of Heady Topper it same as White Labs then they could have any gen but certainly not 1.

 

[Chris-Naz]

Anybody know if this product is available in the homebrew size/scale yet?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I'd keep checking that Geterbrewed link above, as I'd assume they will switch to official packs of New England once they're available, but it's not looking particularly promising.

Anyway - Conan's old hat now, isn't everyone using 1318 and kveiks?

 

[Chris-Naz]

Thanks. It’s looking like there isn’t a US delivery option on that website I’ll do some more hunting...

You’re right w/1318 (my fav) and kviek - people are still toying w/ wlp066, wlp644 and S04/T-58/WB06 blends... I’d like to have a few packs of dry Conan on hand rather than US05

 

[thunderaxe]

One of the “founders” of this “style” just said recently he uses 1272 which is the same yeast as BRY-97. So that would be another good option.

who was that?

 

[thehaze]

Bissell?

 

[Chris-Naz]

I heard that rumor also. Thanks for sighting another great dry option gents!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Thanks. It’s looking like there isn’t a US delivery option on that website

You could always ask them directly - I'm sure they could send a couple of packs of yeast. Standard Post Office rate for 100g to the US in 5-7 days is like $3-4.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Talking to a Lallemand guy, he suggested we might be seeing retail packs of New England "in the New Year" but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[thehaze]

I believe I've asked them the same either Winter of 2017 or early 2018 and said it should be available during the summer. On October 31, 2018 I asked again and they replied " They are still in quality control. Should be able to put them for sale soon. Please keep your eyes open. ".