Natural gas brew stand - 23 tip burner to 10 tip conversion build.

[floyduww]

Seems Bobby_m was right about the solenoid. Mine are rated for 4-224 PSI not 0 and up. After a bit more reading I have come to the conclusion of getting new solenoids. So I have new solenoids coming STC 2W160 - 1/2. My old ones will work for water (not wort) transfer. As long as they can stand 174 deg water. Hopefully I have it right this time.

 

[floyduww]

That was it. I tried the burners without solenoids and now have a fantastic flame. So much so that I will have to move the burners down a bit and or remove some jets.

The New Brewery :: p1010433

Thanks again Bobby_M

 

[Runyanka]

Does anyone have pics of how they tee'd off for the NG? I have a NG hot water heater in my garage with a gas line comming out of the wall to it. Before the hose leading to the hot water heater there is a ball valve. Could I just close the valve, put a tee in with another ball valve leading to my burner? I would prefer to use NG vs propane, especially witht he prices of that stuff around where I am. Main concern: blowing up the hose

 

[brewpal]

My NG pipe to the furnace had a "crap trap" that I removed and replaced with a gas ball valve. The street elbow in the second picture has been replaced with a gas quick-disconnect since this was taken.

I used teflon tape rated for NG.

Check for leaks with soapy water.

I found a ball valve that allows you to take out the screw for the handle, take off and turn the handle 180 deg, and replace in a locked position. Gives a bit of piece of mind that it will not be turned on accidentally.

 

[mykayel]

Does anyone have pics of how they tee'd off for the NG? I have a NG hot water heater in my garage with a gas line comming out of the wall to it. Before the hose leading to the hot water heater there is a ball valve. Could I just close the valve, put a tee in with another ball valve leading to my burner? I would prefer to use NG vs propane, especially witht he prices of that stuff around where I am. Main concern: blowing up the hose

Yes you can do exactly as you describe. If there is another place closer to where you will be brewing, I would "T" as close as possible so that you have the shortest path. You can close the valve that is on your gas meter that supplies your whole house, that's what I did.

And I do exactly as above, I put a cap in place when its not in use just as a piece of mind in case the valve were to leak.

 

[floyduww]

For the above connection you should use a "T" instead of an elbow, and put another "drip leg" in. The plumber that helped me run my gas lines for my brewery and dryer told me that anytime you have a vertical run like that you should have a "Drip Leg' or "crap trap"

 

[Runyanka]

Yes you can do exactly as you describe. If there is another place closer to where you will be brewing, I would "T" as close as possible so that you have the shortest path. You can close the valve that is on your gas meter that supplies your whole house, that's what I did.

And I do exactly as above, I put a cap in place when its not in use just as a piece of mind in case the valve were to leak.

Now... what kind of burner should I get? Will a boyou classic work with NG without any modifications?

 

[slimer]

I have the same burner as above, never used that I can sell.

 

[Runyanka]

I have the same burner as above, never used that I can sell.

Which burner do you have? The one the OP has? If so, do you have a stand? PM me if you would like.

 

[slimer]

I do not have a stand, but it is that burner that the OP has.

 

[Paraops]

Sorry.....double post.

 

[Paraops]

I have to ask.... why the hell use a burner that you have to modify to this degree, when you can use a burner that can be tamed down to a simmer if needed?

I realize the multijet is cool looking, but as soon as I realized it was too much for burner for the application, I moved on to another choice. What made you guys choose the multijet if you have to plug over 50% of the jets to make it work in your application?

 

[BlindLemonLars]

I have to ask.... why the hell use a burner that you have to modify to this degree, when you can use a burner that can be tamed down to a simmer if needed?

I realize the multijet is cool looking, but as soon as I realized it was too much for burner for the application, I moved on to another choice. What made you guys choose the multijet if you have to plug over 50% of the jets to make it work in your application?

I think part of it is that the selection of readily available NG burners is quite limited. That's why I initially tried multi-jet burners, but after a lot of experimenting I couldn't get them to burn cleanly AND over a reasonable range of adjustment.

OTOH, lots of guys have great success with them. Where propane tanks/regulators are a known quantity, there is a lot of variation with natural gas hookups...service pressure, pipe size and length, etc. The same gear isn't going to work the same in every situation.

 

[mykayel]

I have to ask.... why the hell use a burner that you have to modify to this degree, when you can use a burner that can be tamed down to a simmer if needed?

I realize the multijet is cool looking, but as soon as I realized it was too much for burner for the application, I moved on to another choice. What made you guys choose the multijet if you have to plug over 50% of the jets to make it work in your application?

They make 10 tip burners: Low Pressure Burner 58,000 BTUs Natural Gas | MoreBeer but it cost $40 more than the 23 tip burners you can get from resturant supply stores, and a couple of bucks to plug the extra burners is no big deal. Mine works perfeclty fine with plenty of adjustability. I'd much rather use natural gas that is much cheaper and I have an unlimited supply, so no worries about ever running out.

 

[mykayel]

Now... what kind of burner should I get? Will a boyou classic work with NG without any modifications?

No, you would have to modify it, propane uses a much higher gas presure than natural gas.

 

[radtek]

I bought both 23 & 32 tip NG burners last summer. Small and Medium. I run them directly off the main line to my hot water heater. I think I patched in 1/2" pipe...

The 32 tip's blue flame is about 20" tall or more. The 'smaller' burner's flame is almost as big. Thank god I didn't buy the large 44 tip burner!

I like the idea of removing a few tips to reduce the intensity of these burners in order to dial in your system.

And, I'm encouraged by the rest of you guys. I think I'll either run hose out to my back porch or look into a more permanent solution. I'm thinking of putting in a grill anyway.

It gets unbearably hot in the garage so the brewery will have to be moved outside for this upcoming summer.

 

[dunleav1]

I think part of it is that the selection of readily available NG burners is quite limited. That's why I initially tried multi-jet burners, but after a lot of experimenting I couldn't get them to burn cleanly AND over a reasonable range of adjustment.

OTOH, lots of guys have great success with them. Where propane tanks/regulators are a known quantity, there is a lot of variation with natural gas hookups...service pressure, pipe size and length, etc. The same gear isn't going to work the same in every situation.

Did you go back to Propane or did you find a better NG burner?

 

[BlindLemonLars]

Did you go back to Propane or did you find a better NG burner?

For my main boiler, I use a hurricane burner with a replacement natural gas orifice & valve from Williams Brewing. For my HLT, I bought a small propane burner from an agricultural supply house, and drilled out the orifice to work with NG. Overall, I'm pretty happy with the setup.

[youtube]U5UAvgP-pyY[/youtube]

 

[Bobby_M]

I like it. I see a conversion in my future. It doesn't look like the same btu capacity as the multijets though so I know that I'll want to split the strike water heating between two vessels and that the sparge water will have to go on flame as soon as I start the mash.

 

[BlindLemonLars]

It doesn't look like the same btu capacity as the multijets though so I know that I'll want to split the strike water heating between two vessels and that the sparge water will have to go on flame as soon as I start the mash.

I'm certain it's not the same BTUs as the multi-jets...probably nowhere near the same. Still, it seems to be more than adequate. I light the HLT burner first thing, and by the time I've measured/milled the grain, weighed the hops, etc, it's up to strike temp. Once I've mashed in, the HLT is immediately refilled. When it's reached sparging temp, it's easy to dial the flame down to hold it steady until needed.

The best part is not having to scrub soot off my kettles, that was getting really old when using my multi-jets!

With summer and the associated pool parties and BBQs coming, I'm gearing up for 10 gallon batches. Hopefully the same burners will be up to the task. I'm pretty sure the hurricane is capable, but I'll probably need an upgrade for a larger HLT.

 

[dunleav1]

I like it. I see a conversion in my future. It doesn't look like the same btu capacity as the multijets though so I know that I'll want to split the strike water heating between two vessels and that the sparge water will have to go on flame as soon as I start the mash.

Bobby,
Are you using the multi jet burners? Are you getting the yellow flame - soot problems as well?

BlindLemonLars - Do you brew in an area with wind? How do the hurricane burners hold up ?

 

[BlindLemonLars]

BlindLemonLars - Do you brew in an area with wind? How do the hurricane burners hold up ?

I get a fair bit of wind, and I'd say the hurricane handles it a lot better than the multi-jets. Still, I made a simple windscreen out of a piece of aluminum roof flashing, which also serves to concentrate the heat a bit.

 

[Bobby_M]

Bobby,
Are you using the multi jet burners? Are you getting the yellow flame - soot problems as well?

BlindLemonLars - Do you brew in an area with wind? How do the hurricane burners hold up ?

I don't have any soot problems but I also live within the small flame adjustment range the produces a clean blue flame. You can see that the hurricane has a lot more range.

 

[dunleav1]

I building my rig right now and I'm debating whether to go NG or stay with propane.

I have 185,000 BTU Bayou burners in my current setup with wind shields. I brew outside so wind performance is a factor for me.

So you drilled out all the holes on a burner like this?
Low Pressure 10 Inch Burner : BBQ.com

Then replaced this valve?
http://www.williamsbrewing.com/HURRICANE_CONVERSION_VALVE_P2214C87.cfm

Is your gas pipe 3/8" or 1/2"?

 

[BlindLemonLars]

Do not drill out the holes! Just thread in the valve you linked to, it contains an orifice that is appropriately sized for NG. Should you wish to run it on propane at some point, you just need to switch back to a stock valve/orifice assembly.

BTW, Northern Brewer carries the Hurricane for $33.99, and it ships under their $6.99 flat rate. (It weighs a ton!)

My gas stub is 1/2", but it's connected to a BBQ quick-disconnect and a flexible 3/8" hose. I could probably get even better performance with 1/2" hose all the way, but I need to share the feed with my BBQ grill.

I also brew outside, and I think you'll want good windscreens with just about any kind of burner. With the multi-jet, it was tricky providing adequate wind protection without starving it of oxygen. I'd move the shields in, and watch the blues flames go yellow and sooty! Without shields, the slightest gust would blow out individual jets and they wouldn't always relight themselves...I'd walk by and notice a strong gas smell and have to relight manually.

 

[Beernip]

Very interesting BlindLemonLars. How long does it take you to bring 5 gallons to a boil?

 

[ajwillys]

I just got this same burner that BlindLemonLars is using. So far, I'm using it for propane but am working on getting my NG stub ready. I went with the Williams Brewing one because I wanted the stand and propane regulator/hose/orifice. This way, it's still portable for when I brew at a friends house. I just switch out the orifice and grab my propane tank. I figured by the time I build a stand and buy the stuff locally for propane, it'd be the same price as the pre-built one anyway. Of course, if you're putting it in a brewstand, go with the Northern Brewer one.

I haven't tried it with NG yet but so far, I am in love with this new burner, so much better than my cheap, old turkey fryer.

 

[BlindLemonLars]

I just got this same burner that BlindLemonLars is using. So far, I'm using it for propane but am working on getting my NG stub ready. I went with the Williams Brewing one because I wanted the stand and propane regulator/hose/orifice. This way, it's still portable for when I brew at a friends house. I just switch out the orifice and grab my propane tank.

Once you get rigged for natural gas, let us know how the performance compares to propane, as I've only used the former. Hey, on the stand mounted version, how far is the top of the burner from the bottom of your kettle? Mine is kind of shoehorned into an old Bayou Classic stand, and I think I need to get it closer to the kettle if I want to do 10 gallon batches.

Beernip, I've never timed it but I definitely get 7 gallons to boil in a reasonable time. (It helps that I light the burner while I'm still sparging.) But like I was saying, I think I could increase the performance by raising the burner a few inches.

 

[ajwillys]

Once you get rigged for natural gas, let us know how the performance compares to propane, as I've only used the former.

OK, I got my NG stub done. I'm using 25' x 1/2" hose. I get 5 gallons of water from 65 to boiling in 23 minutes. I haven't yet tested propane so scientifically yet. I'll do it right now and report back.

 

[ajwillys]

Done with the propane test..... still 5 gallons of water, same 65 degree starting temp, still going to boiling. It finished in a grand total of 21 minutes! I'm frankly a little shocked with how close the two came out.

Anyway, I'm pretty happy with the performance of the NG and propane. In the end, the NG was more expensive to set up since I had to put a stub in my garage (tee'ed off the water heater) and a long hose but the convenience and cheaper price of gas more than makes up for it.

Did I mention this burner is near silent? It's wonderful!