MYPIN TA4-SNR Help needed - Temp display wrong and goes down when heat apllied

[Tweed]

SOLUTION FOUND.

I have built a RIMS 120v single element Temp controller using:

TA4-SNR - PID
Ruike Electronics Industrial Ltd. SSR-60DA - SSR Same as Fotek
K type thermocouple - tried 2 different and getting same issue

I have wired the system and all seems to work correctly except the PV or measured temp is showing like 215 degrees at room temp. When heat is applied to thermocouple, the temp reading goes down.

What I have tried:
inverting +/- TC wires on PID - did this with 2 different TC
Checking all PID settings to assure correct input selected and looking at all factory settings.
Searched for hours solutions on net, found nothing with my same issue.
Watched some youtube video's on setting up this PID.
Went thoroughly though Homebrewtalk forum looking for solutions.

Any Advise for my issue?

 

[dmcman73]

Can you take a pic of the wiring on the back of the My pin? Also, there are different temp probes it can support, are you sure it's set to the proper one in the settings and that you have it wired properly?

 

[Bellybuster]

ya sounds like wrong thermocouple input type??
Thermocouple should be on #7&8 if mine is the same.

 

[Tweed]

3 images

1st is Back of PID showing red (-) at 7, and white at 8

2nd is face of PID showing high temp after i warmed it it went from 216 starting to this temp

3rd is the Diagram on the PID.

 

[Tweed]

Can you take a pic of the wiring on the back of the My pin? Also, there are different temp probes it can support, are you sure it's set to the proper one in the settings and that you have it wired properly?

Yes I set it to K as it is defaulted. But I also tried it with each other setting and none work.

 

[augiedoggy]

it would help if you didnt start 2 threads on the same subject... I think Crane might have answered you question in your other thread. it seems special wire is needed for these thermocouples...

 

[Tweed]

I bought a New PID. Same model TA4-SNR.

Hooked up, default settings, and same problem. checked settings and all as i think they are supposed to be. Tried all the thing I had before again and no change. So it seems either my wiring or thermocouples are broken, or some setting Is set incorrectly.

Problem: Temp shows as high when turned on. Temp goes down when heat is applied to thermocouple. I ordered a new thermocouple and will get monday.

 

[Bellybuster]

have you got your K type TC spliced to other wire??? you cannot do this with K type. Must be K wire. Just guessing

 

[Tweed]

have you got your K type TC spliced to other wire??? you cannot do this with K type. Must be K wire. Just guessing

Nope original wire none added.

 

[Bellybuster]

reaching here again.... right after the setting for TC (k) is the setting for Y/N for RTD. Is this a NO?

 

[Tweed]

reaching here again.... right after the setting for TC (k) is the setting for Y/N for RTD. Is this a NO?

Setting is called INP and it's set for y, which is the symbol for k type sensor.

Setting after that one is called P 3.00. p= off i appears in the manual.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Bellybuster]

Hmmmm, my manual says "y" is for RTD

 

[Tweed]

Hmmmm, my manual says "y" is for RTD

PT100 is the rtd setting in mine.

 

[Sideways]

If you have a thermocouple it looks like a type J to me from the colors. Type k thermocouples are red and yellow.

 

[Tweed]

I received the new TC today and hooked it up and it WORKS!!!!

My guess is the TC's i have use a different voltage, ohms or something like that.

 

[Tweed]

If you have a thermocouple it looks like a type J to me from the colors. Type k thermocouples are red and yellow.

I had tried settings for all type of thermocouples and all behaved the same. My new type K had a red and blue. Blue ended up being the negative, or at least went to the pole labeled negative. I am thinking there's a lot of variation on these TC's.

 

[Sideways]

I had tried settings for all type of thermocouples and all behaved the same. My new type K had a red and blue. Blue ended up being the negative, or at least went to the pole labeled negative. I am thinking there's a lot of variation on these TC's.

Red and blue wires indicate it is a Type T thermocouple. No biggie, they work just fine on the Type K setting as long as you adjust the input correction. They usually read a few degrees high so you have to adjust the reading down 2 or 3 degrees. At least that's how my controller performs. I use a calibrated dryblock and perform the calibration adjustment at 155 °F.

Edit: I see that your blue wire is the negative... That's strange, as the red wire is the negative for Type T. Oh well, as long as whatever you have works!

 

[itsnotrequired]

be aware that thermocouples have different color coding depending on what country they are from, below is a handy chart

 

[Jack Wiggins]

Ok, I know this is an old post, but I found the solution to my PID reading too high. When I built mine, I drilled holes in the box for vent the heat from the inside of the box. I even wired a small computer fan inside. I placed this on a separate switch. One day, I was operating my pid and I'm all of a sudden showing a room temperature of 100 degrees... it was about 70 inside... Also, the heat kept rising... It got all of the way up to 110 degrees... I realized I had forgot to turn on my switch with my little cooling fan on it... Once I did that, the temperature started falling until it was normal. I hope this helps.

SOLUTION FOUND.

I have built a RIMS 120v single element Temp controller using:

TA4-SNR - PID
Ruike Electronics Industrial Ltd. SSR-60DA - SSR Same as Fotek
K type thermocouple - tried 2 different and getting same issue

I have wired the system and all seems to work correctly except the PV or measured temp is showing like 215 degrees at room temp. When heat is applied to thermocouple, the temp reading goes down.

What I have tried:
inverting +/- TC wires on PID - did this with 2 different TC
Checking all PID settings to assure correct input selected and looking at all factory settings.
Searched for hours solutions on net, found nothing with my same issue.
Watched some youtube video's on setting up this PID.
Went thoroughly though Homebrewtalk forum looking for solutions.

Any Advise for my issue?

SOLUTION FOUND.

I have built a RIMS 120v single element Temp controller using:

TA4-SNR - PID
Ruike Electronics Industrial Ltd. SSR-60DA - SSR Same as Fotek
K type thermocouple - tried 2 different and getting same issue

I have wired the system and all seems to work correctly except the PV or measured temp is showing like 215 degrees at room temp. When heat is applied to thermocouple, the temp reading goes down.

What I have tried:
inverting +/- TC wires on PID - did this with 2 different TC
Checking all PID settings to assure correct input selected and looking at all factory settings.
Searched for hours solutions on net, found nothing with my same issue.
Watched some youtube video's on setting up this PID.
Went thoroughly though Homebrewtalk forum looking for solutions.

Any Advise for my issue?

 

[augiedoggy]

Ok, I know this is an old post, but I found the solution to my PID reading too high. When I built mine, I drilled holes in the box for vent the heat from the inside of the box. I even wired a small computer fan inside. I placed this on a separate switch. One day, I was operating my pid and I'm all of a sudden showing a room temperature of 100 degrees... it was about 70 inside... Also, the heat kept rising... It got all of the way up to 110 degrees... I realized I had forgot to turn on my switch with my little cooling fan on it... Once I did that, the temperature started falling until it was normal. I hope this helps.

I hope your aware something bust be wrong with the pid right? the temp readout should have nothing to do with the temp of the components inside the pid and if they are effecting your temp reading than its likely untrustworthy or inaccurate.. curiuos , Is your pid a mypin? are you using a thermocouple or RTD I have had strange behavior trying to use thermocouples myself which I discovered later could have been the wiring connections and length or the wire.

 

[passedpawn]

I hope your aware something bust be wrong with the pid right? the temp readout should have nothing to do with the temp of the components inside the pid and if they are effecting your temp reading than its likely untrustworthy or inaccurate.. curiuos , Is your pid a mypin? are you using a thermocouple or RTD I have had strange behavior trying to use thermocouples myself which I discovered later could have been the wiring connections and length or the wire.

That's not true. A thermocouple probe has 3 junctions, all sensitive to temperature. The obvious one is at the end of the probe. The other two, referred to as the "cold junctions", are where the thermocouple wires connect to the PID (screws usually). If these cold junctions change temperature, the measurement is toast.

Most PIDs, though, track their internal temperature in order to do an automatic correction for the cold junctions. However, if the cold junctions (again, it's just the two screwdown terminals) are different temperatures from each other, or if they somehow change temperature without the PID's internal temperature ckt tracking, you'll have errors. If you look inside an Auber PID, you might see an RTD mounted near the terminals (I remember noticing this a long time ago).

For these reasons, and other reasons, thermistors and RTD's are better sensors.

 

[Jack Wiggins]

I have distilled batch after batch using this PID.. It has worked great until this ONE TIME... It left me scratching my head... Overheating of electrical components can cause all kinds of weird unexplainable problems... Once I got everything cooled down, it was working right again... This may not be your problem, but it WAS mine.

 

[augiedoggy]

^^ good to know I knew it mattered whether they were soldered or connected via terminals or twisted wire but did not realize the terminal temps can alter off the actual temp probe temps Seems like a massive limitation to accuracy and performance to me. I guess this is another reason RTD's are the better choice then since I dont have this issue with them on any of my panels. I do have a couple thermocouples I use for ambient air measurement which now I'm wondering if they are being effected by this. I mainly use thermisters and RTDS ... with the cost being so low I do not see any benefit to thermocouples however I had a cartridge heater with one built in (which I could never get to work reliably)

 

[augiedoggy]

I have distilled batch after batch using this PID.. It has worked great until this ONE TIME... It left me scratching my head... Overheating of electrical components can cause all kinds of weird unexplainable problems... Once I got everything cooled down, it was working right again... This may not be your problem, but it WAS mine.

Just to clarify I never implied you didnt have the issue myself, just that something was wrong to have it.
We really still dont know if there is something wrong with the pid or not... We dont even know which model pid you have? is it the mypin TA4?
as passedpawn stated many have temp compensation hardware built into them which I had no idea of but if thats the case and the pid you have has it, then something failed (If not your temp reading has always been off and dependant on pid terminal temps too) .. It normally takes some pretty high temps to cause damage or fault in electrical components as they are subject to very high temps when being assembled and soldered onto the board. PIDS are most commonly used in industrial equipment like some of the stuff I work on for a living, that equipment often resides in extremely hot conditions like manufacturing factories in heavy machinery. the pids should work fine in relatively hot conditions. you mention your box has vents, even with ssr temps I just have a hard time believing the ambient air temp got that high to damage the electronics is what im saying.

It just seems to me that using a thermocouple on any pid without this compensation would result in poor accuracy?

 

[passedpawn]

Just to clarify I never implied you didnt have the issue myself, just that something was wrong to have it.
We really still dont know if there is something wrong with the pid or not... We dont even know which model pid you have? is it the mypin TA4?
as passedpawn stated many have temp compensation hardware built into them which I had no idea of but if thats the case and the pid you have has it, then something failed (If not your temp reading has always been off and dependant on pid terminal temps too) .. It normally takes some pretty high temps to cause damage or fault in electrical components as they are subject to very high temps when being assembled and soldered onto the board. PIDS are most commonly used in industrial equipment like some of the stuff I work on for a living, that equipment often resides in extremely hot conditions like manufacturing factories in heavy machinery. the pids should work fine in relatively hot conditions. you mention your box has vents, even with ssr temps I just have a hard time believing the ambient air temp got that high to damage the electronics is what im saying.

It just seems to me that using a thermocouple on any pid without this compensation would result in poor accuracy?

I had the exact same problem as the OP in 2009, with the ubiquitous Auber syl2352 and a thermocouple probe. Temperature would change a lot when box heated up. I confirmed by using a heat gun blowing in there. I called Auber and they told me that if my box was going to get hot to change to an RTD. Done and fixed.