My Single-Tier Propane/Electric Hybrid Brew Rig

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Awesome! Thanks for the info.

Does the vinyl come with a backing? You just position the whole sheet on the face then pull the backing off?

I have already wired everything, will that be a problem? I hope not...

 

[EarthBound]

Brewed 2 batches this weekend.

Congrats on a successful maiden brew day!
I brewed two batches over the weekend, as well.

Sparged too fast Saturday.

Yeah, when homebrewers get excited, they tend to sparge too quickly...

A friend dropped by the maiden brew day and took some pics he posted on Flickr.

There's one thing missing in all of these pics... do you know what it is?

 

[diatonic]

There's one thing missing in all of these pics... do you know what it is?

Blame the photographer . Sampled a few club members brews. LHBS owner had an Oatmeal Stout we were tasting, and another club member brought a Scottish Export Ale he brewed. I had to go pretty easy on the libations because I had to drive home... and be clear headed enough to react if something went disastrously wrong.

 

[diatonic]

Does the vinyl come with a backing? You just position the whole sheet on the face then pull the backing off?

Yeah, you peel off the bottom, exposing the 'sticky' part of the vinyl. Apply it and rub with a spatula type thing. Then peel off the top part exposing the beauty

I have already wired everything, will that be a problem? I hope not...

You could just have the letters/whatever cut, layed out as closely as possible, then cut out and position by hand. I removed my switches and applied everything but the logo in one shot. That way I only had to worry about centering/aligning it once. I still got the logo a bit off center I think. You could cut everything out and position for each switch or indicator if you wanted... or if those will get in the way.

 

[EarthBound]

Now that you've done a couple batches, is there anything you would change in your brewstand design (move kegs closer/farther apart, make the stand taller/shorter, etc.)?

Would you be able to provide an electrical schematic? It would really help anyone who's going with a hybrid stand. Your setup is VERY well-designed.

Thank you.

 

[diatonic]

Now that you've done a couple batches, is there anything you would change in your brewstand design (move kegs closer/farther apart, make the stand taller/shorter, etc.)?

Would you be able to provide an electrical schematic? It would really help anyone who's going with a hybrid stand. Your setup is VERY well-designed.

Thank you.

Thanks! I've been busy brewing and have neglected to update the build thread much .

I really like the dimensions of the stand. My main observations post-project:

• When you weld couplings in to kegs for valves, keep them away from the vent holes in the skirt. I realized this after doing my HLT, which has 2 right over the skirt holes. The vents I cut later have really helped though.
• Using the 3-MD-HC for whirlpool on the BK works great, once wort starts to chill. Trying to pump boiling wort through that thing at full speed isn't possible. Even with nearly 12 gallons in the BK it boils like crazy at the pump inlet. I've just started to let it bubble, gurgle & boil in the final 10 minutes of the boil. As soon as I start to chill, that stops and it really gets the wort moving. The march pump might not have had such a problem at the pump inlet because I'd imagine it has significantly lower 'suction' at the pump inlet.
• I'd really like to have a bleeder valves at the BK pump outlet to pull small samples to test with my refractometer while sparging. When I'm sparging I would love to know what the SG is of the runnings, without having to disconnect a hose from the pump to get a sample.
• Ramping mash temp 14F in 10 minutes is tough through the HERMS coil if you don't want to set HLT temp well above target MLT temp... and if you bring HLT temp up to speed it up, you have to add cold water to the HLT to bring the sparge water temp back down. It's been fun to play with though. I'm not sure if a slow ramp has disadvantages.
• Whirlpooling works much better if I allow the BK to sit idle for 20 or 30 minutes after I stop the whirlpool pump. My first brew day I was running late to start, and started to drain the BK just a few minutes after stopping the pump. A lot of sediment stuff ended up in the carboy, and the was no trub cone. Batches 2 and 3 I shut off the pump and waited about 30 minutes before draining to the fermenters, and had a nice trub cone in the BK.
• I love having the IC built in to the BK, and not having to deal with toting the IC around . It also allows me to put a lid on the BK when I start to chill without worrying about stuff falling in to my cool wort.
• The whirlpool really speeds up my IC chill. I only used 20 feet of copper though, and 10 gallon batches take a lot longer for me to chill.

I still need to add splash guards to the pumps, and I still need to finish wiring the panel for electric HLT. Budget constraints have come up and I've put spending on hold for a bit. I also still need to add a thermometer to the BK so it's easier to tell when I'm at pitching temps.

All the batches I've done have been using propane for the HLT.

My only regret is probably not using the pilot safety vales for the HLT. Even though I haven't had any issue keeping the pilot light lit, I still don't walk away just in case. It would be nice to know that the rig would shut down gas if the pilot light went out. I really didn't want to incur the cost of those controls, along with having to re-do my orifices for low pressure. It's something I might upgrade down the road though.

I intend to get some pictures/video of the system for the thread, for anyone that wants to try a similar approach.

 

[KCBrewer]

Very nice job on the build. I can't wait until I'm to the point of building one, and I'll definitely be referencing this thread when I do.

One question, on the plug from the control box to the j box, is there a need for the plug? Or could this have been hard wired with the flex conduit as well? More to the point, would you ever need to unplug this? I was just curious if the control panel was removable and if so why?

 

[diatonic]

Very nice job on the build. I can't wait until I'm to the point of building one, and I'll definitely be referencing this thread when I do.

One question, on the plug from the control box to the j box, is there a need for the plug? Or could this have been hard wired with the flex conduit as well? More to the point, would you ever need to unplug this? I was just curious if the control panel was removable and if so why?

Yep, one of my big 'design goals' was that I needed it to fit in my Ford Explorer. It's a tight fit, but I got the rig, 3 keggles, control panel, propane tank, and 2 six gallon carboys in it for a group brew last Sunday... after folding down the 2nd & 3rd row seats .

I also like that I could build a BCS-460 or BrewTroller based control box and have it completely separate from the control panel I'm using now. The control panel could certainly be mounted any way you like. It was just a handy, detachable way to get 6 conductors from the panel to the rig (though I'm only using 5 right now... pump 1, pump 2, hlt gas, neutral, ground). It is really satisfying to touch multimeter probes to any of the kegs, and the metal switches and have continuity. At least I shouldn't get electrocuted.

 

[jlandin]

Nice build! A great looking rig you have there.

--
Josh

 

[willynilly]

Very nice... looks very durable, your grandkids will be brewing on that thing

 

[EarthBound]

Where did you get your casters? They appear to lock both ways.

 

[jlandin]

Where did you get your casters? They appear to lock both ways.

He mentioned it in Post #34, see below:

I got 4 of these casters from eBay. They lock the wheel from moving completely, immobilizing the stand when all 4 are locked. They seem really high quality for the price.

 

[EarthBound]

Thanks for the quick reply, jlandin. I definitely buying those today.

diatonic, How did those casters work out for you, e.g., good/bad quality? How did you attach them? Did you weld a nut in place or did you use those square, black plastic adapter things that kind of wedge into the hole?

 

[diatonic]

Welded a nut behind the plate on the bottom of the support tubes. Then thread them in until snug. Just make sure you put the nut on the inside of the tube rather than the outside . That way the plate on the bottom distributes the weight on the surface of the caster, and the nut doesn't get strained wheeling it around.

Are those the same casters you used jlandin? I thought yours looked the same.

EDIT: I think the casters are great. I got 4 with shipping for about $40. Nice smooth action. Much better than the harbor freight casters

 

[EarthBound]

Thanks for yet another quick reply!
I will weld the nuts, as well.
Just bought the casters off ebay using that link.
How'd you make the plates- just cut up some 16 gauge sheet metal or did you buy them?

 

[diatonic]

The guy who did my welding made them. I think he just cut some 1.5" squares out of 16 or 14 ga steel, drilled a hole in the middle to accommodate the stem, then welded the nut on. It doesn't need to be really thick, the round piece at the top extends a bit beyond the walls of the tubing:

 

[ghart999]

Diatonic, how many pieces of tubing did you need and what lengths? Looks like maybe 4 10 foot pieces? Were you able to cut out all the pieces you need from it? I am ready to order my SS tubing and want to be sure I have enough using your exact dimensions.

 

[diatonic]

I used mild steel, which is sold in 24' lengths here. Stainless here comes in 20' "randoms". You might check with some local steel suppliers. Looks like http://www.rssteel.com/ is in Denver. The total length of tubing I used was 39' 2.875".

Keep in mind that each cut removes 1/16" of material. If you have the steel shop cut the tubing to make it easier to transport, make sure the do it in a place that doesn't make it impossible to get the needed pieces.

I also used about 14" of 1x1 angle for pump mounts, and some 1/16" thick plate to cap the tubes. You welding this yourself?

When I checked prices 1.5" square 16 gauge stainless tubing was about $75 for 20', and mild steel was $25 for 24'. I would have also needed to buy stainless for pump mounts and tube end caps, and decided to use mild steel instead.

I did end up buying a 20' piece of 2x2" angle 304 stainless for the heat shields later, which cost $90.

Cut sheet was as follows:

QTY Length Purpose
**************************************
4 19 7/8" Vertical Corner Supports
2 17" Vertical Mid Supports
3 59" Main Horizontal Beams
1 58 7/8" Gas Beam
9 13 1/2" Kettle Supports/Bottom front to back

I think my 1x1" angle for pump mounts were each 3.5" long (need to double check).

You'll need 10 1.5" x 1.5" squares of 16 ga material to cap the gas beam and vertical corner pieces.

Hope this helps! The above doesn't include the stuff I used for control panel mount.

 

[ghart999]

Thank you Diatonic. I prices out SS here from Ryerson's which is the only place that didn't have a min order amount. 20' 1.5" square tubing at 14 gauge was $100/piece. I figured I should use 14 gauge instead. Looks like I can get by with 2 20' pieces which is great news for sure. I will have to get random pieces like you used for pump shield, etc. Hopefully that stuff can be found without having to buy in bulk, etc.

Thanks again.

Now if I am not using a gas bar, I can just use 4 59" main horizontal beams right?

My burners are the cheap BG-10 ones from agrisupply that have the nut on the bottom. I was thinking if just putting some kind of SS 1.5" metal strip across the underside to mount the burners too.

I am not welding this myself. I have a friend doing the whole thing TIG welded for $200. Can't beat it. He does the welding of brewery stuff for Coors.

 

[EarthBound]

The answer is yes. Damn, only $100 a pop?! I was quoted like over $200 after a discount. Pull the trigger on that!

Just got my steel yesterday. I'm gonna powdercoat and use heatshields and vents, too. Bought NG burners to force myself to run some NG lines to my garage (brew) and backyard (grill).

Crazy... I'm also using a friend who welded for Coors! I work with him, so he'll teach me to TIG and do it for me for free (beer).

Thanks for the info, diatonic!

 

[EarthBound]

The guy who did my welding made them. I think he just cut some 1.5" squares out of 16 or 14 ga steel, drilled a hole in the middle to accommodate the stem, then welded the nut on. It doesn't need to be really thick, the round piece at the top extends a bit beyond the walls of the tubing.

Surfin' on McMaster's site and found these: Part # 60945K22. They appear to meet the specifications (1.5", 16 gauge sqaure tubing and 1/2"-13 threads for the casters). Do you think it's worth the $34 compared to the "squares with welded nuts" technique?

 

[diatonic]

Surfin' on McMaster's site and found these: Part # 60945K22. They appear to meet the specifications (1.5", 16 gauge sqaure tubing and 1/2"-13 threads for the casters). Do you think it's worth the $34 compared to the "squares with welded nuts" technique?

I was actually planning on buying those. The guy who welded my stand said it was simple to weld the ends with the nuts, he had the materials and said he wouldn't charge me any extra for doing it. So I went with the welded nuts. I'd probably ask the guy helping you weld what he thinks. You'll need some of the flat steel for the ends on the top anyhow, but I'm sure those would work fine to support the casters. My stand doesn't even get warm at the bottom with both burners going for over an hour.

 

[willynilly]

I bought my casters here... http://www.castercity.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=3PA3X&ReturnTo=../cm3-stem.htm

You can design your own caster, wheel material, wheel size, mounting style, brake type etc...

They build it, they ship it.

I used the expandable stem ones on my DigiBrew... I can roll it around with one finger, had great service from these folks.

There is really no need to weld nuts, squares etc... when they make a caster mount just for you

 

[willynilly]

Surfin' on McMaster's site and found these: Part # 60945K22. They appear to meet the specifications (1.5", 16 gauge sqaure tubing and 1/2"-13 threads for the casters). Do you think it's worth the $34 compared to the "squares with welded nuts" technique?

nevermind, see you already bought the threaded stem casters

 

[diatonic]

My casters were about $40 shipped, and mounting hardware was under a dollar

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I bought my casters here... http://www.castercity.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=3PA3X&ReturnTo=../cm3-stem.htm

.....

I used the expandable stem ones on my DigiBrew... I can roll it around with one finger, had great service from these folks.

.....

There must be a mistake. That link is to ALUMINUM casters... I thought DigiBrew is 100% Stainless

BTW... that link is a cool site, thanks for the find.

 

[willynilly]

There must be a mistake. That link is to ALUMINUM casters... I thought DigiBrew is 100% Stainless

BTW... that link is a cool site, thanks for the find.

Woops, I didnt disclose that to the guy that bought it... hope he doesn't find out and nail me for false advertising!

They are a cool site, you get to piece together your own casters, you arent at the whim of what someone carries assembled.

 

[diatonic]

Woops, I didnt disclose that to the guy that bought it... hope he doesn't find out and nail me for false advertising!

They are a cool site, you get to piece together your own casters, you arent at the whim of what someone carries assembled.

Did you really sell DigiBrew after all the time you put in to building it?

 

[willynilly]

Did you really sell DigiBrew after all the time you put in to building it?

Yes, kegerator and ferm. freezer are next, along with 8 cornies, 300 pounds of imported malt and 9 pounds of hops and misc. things. I am out of the homebrew bizzz

 

[EarthBound]

How's the brewing been going for you, Chris? Have you had time to finish wiring the panel for the electric HLT? Any new pics for us?

 

[diatonic]

How's the brewing been going for you, Chris? Have you had time to finish wiring the panel for the electric HLT? Any new pics for us?

Brewing has been going well. I still haven't finished the wiring to heat the HLT electric. I have all the parts, but don't have the circuit run out to my brew area yet.

I'll be brewing batches 5 and 6 in the next few weeks. Not much new to report

I'm participating in the 1st round of Iron Brewer, and have to come up with a recipe using Rye Malt, Simcoe hops, and dark Belgian Candi Sugar. That will probably be my next brew, as there's a timeline I'm working against. Also planning to brew a Parti-gyle soon. I have the grain ready for that batch. Will post updates when I have them.

Life has been hectic lately!

 

[ghart999]

Diatonic - in one your pics you show a plate chiller mounted to the stand. What chiller is it and do a have details/pics on how you mounted it? Thanks.

 

[diatonic]

Diatonic - in one your pics you show a plate chiller mounted to the stand. What chiller is it and do a have details/pics on how you mounted it? Thanks.

I think that's a shot of Snake10's rig. If you search his username you should be able to find pics of it.

 

[Maltose]

any shots of the inside of your control panel?

 

[EarthBound]

Thank you for posting all of your work on here. I look up to you for this electric hybrid feature.

Any way you could come up with at least a hand-drawn schematic? Your control panel is awesome!

 

[J-Malone]

just subscribing....I love this rig, I am in the process of building my own and I am borrowing ideas from here....

 

[rekoob]

DUDE, F-in NICE.... love the build. I have been drooling over Snakes build and you have done this stand justice. Love it.

 

[diatonic]

Thanks for the kind words, guys. Sorry I've been kind of absent. Lots going on with work & family, but I've managed to knock out 3 11 gallon batches in the past 5 weeks, with another planned this weekend. I'll try to get a schematic of my wiring up shortly.

 

[J-Malone]

any chance you could post some pics of your in place IC and the HERMS HEX? I am thinking of doing the same thing but with stainless steel coils...

 

[rsklhm10]

Build looks top notch. Quick question, where did you get those thermometers from? I am a fan of the 5" face and the hinge feature similar to the brewmometer...