My One Vessel AG System

[gswartley]

Awesome Idea! I may have to get a basket and give this a try.

 

[Skidsmint]

Here is the stainless BIAB that I came up with and had Chad build, his build quality is excellent by the way. Once my heat exchanger and pump is complete, I will recirculate the wort similar to a RIMS system. Hopefully it works like I think it should.

 

[uberg33k]

Here is the stainless BIAB that I came up with and had Chad build, his build quality is excellent by the way. Once my heat exchanger and pump is complete, I will recirculate the wort similar to a RIMS system. Hopefully it works like I think it should.

How do you boil in this setup?

 

[wobdee]

That looks like an awesome system skidmint. Keep us posted.

 

[Skidsmint]

I won't boil in this. I will transfer to my boil kettle. My PID allows up to 8 temp settings so I can do a step mash.

 

[wobdee]

I won't boil in this. I will transfer to my boil kettle. My PID allows up to 8 temp settings so I can do a step mash.

What are you using for a heat exchanger and pump?

 

[thughes]

I won't boil in this. I will transfer to my boil kettle. My PID allows up to 8 temp settings so I can do a step mash.

So the basket is simply replacing a false bottom?

 

[Couchy]

Excellent informative thread this!

 

[Skidsmint]

I'm building a heater pipe out of stainless pipe and a hot water heater element. I will use my PID to control the mash temps. I bought a Chugger SS pump and it should be here by Friday. The brew basket replace the false bottom or a bag in BIAB. Looking forward to next weekend!

 

[wobdee]

I'm building a heater pipe out of stainless pipe and a hot water heater element. I will use my PID to control the mash temps. I bought a Chugger SS pump and it should be here by Friday. The brew basket replace the false bottom or a bag in BIAB. Looking forward to next weekend!

Please post some pictures if you get a chance next weekend. Sounds like an interesting idea.

 

[Hermit]

If the sides are mesh then you were better off with just a false bottom from what I've read. At least from an efficiency standpoint. You want the water/wort to recirculate through the entire grain bed.

 

[MetallHed]

If the sides are mesh then you were better off with just a false bottom from what I've read. At least from an efficiency standpoint. You want the water/wort to recirculate through the entire grain bed.

A FB isn't BIAB, though, and would require more than two vessels.

 

[Hermit]

A FB isn't BIAB, though, and would require more than two vessels.

So the cooler isn't a second vessel? Once he went the cooler and pump it became something else and a traditional false bottom would have been a less expensive. He would also have the benefit of he bed filtering his wort. This much expense and effort for a system that was developed to get around having to build a traditional system seems counter intuitive to me. I do BIAB except with a second sparge pot simply because I happen to have one. If I were going through this effort I'd have gone more traditional.

 

[Skidsmint]

So far, so good! It's working like I thought it would. I'm doing a NB Black Ipa that's a single infusion mash so I don't need my heater pipe on this one. My Chugger pump came yesterday and is recirculating the mash, it is very quiet! I need to trim my tubing a little but other than that, it is a pretty compact set up and isn't taking up much space on my kitchen counter. I'll try and post some video also.

 

[wobdee]

Looking good Skidsmint. How long did you mash for and how well did it hold temp? It will be interesting to see what kind of efficiencies you get with that setup. Also looking forward to your video.

 

[Skidsmint]

I did a 90 minute mash and the temp dropped 7 degrees. I had the pump going for the whole 90 minutes so the drop really isn't that bad.

 

[thughes]

I did a 90 minute mash and the temp dropped 7 degrees. I had the pump going for the whole 90 minutes so the drop really isn't that bad.

Next time try this: Instead of using the pump and recirculating, simply do your infusion and then let it set.

I bet that you'll find that the temp doesn't drop more than 2-3 degrees over 90 minutes (instead of 7 degrees).

Consider this: Your pump and hoses actually act like a heat exchanger, pulling 150 degree wort out of the cooler and exposing it to room temperature air, effectivly cooling it for the complete duration of the mash time. Unless you have a means to add heat to the wort while recirculating (RIMS, etc) you are actually defeating the purpose of the insulated mash tun.

BTDT, got the t-shirt to prove it.

 

[Skidsmint]

Next time try this: Instead of using the pump and recirculating, simply do your infusion and then let it set.

I bet that you'll find that the temp doesn't drop more than 2-3 degrees over 90 minutes (instead of 7 degrees).

Consider this: Your pump and hoses actually act like a heat exchanger, pulling 150 degree wort out of the cooler and exposing it to room temperature air, effectivly cooling it for the complete duration of the mash time. Unless you have a means to add heat to the wort while recirculating (RIMS, etc) you are actually defeating the purpose of the insulated mash tun.

BTDT, got the t-shirt to prove it.

I thought about the temp loss after I had already started so next time I will use the heater manifold pipe to keep the temps steady. After everything was all said and done, it was a pretty successful brew day and I hit 76% efficiency according to iBrewmaster. Since this was the first time that I have used this set up I really just wanted to get a feel for how it will work and I'm sure I will tweak a few things on the next brew.

 

[MetallHed]

So the cooler isn't a second vessel? Once he went the cooler and pump it became something else and a traditional false bottom would have been a less expensive. He would also have the benefit of he bed filtering his wort. This much expense and effort for a system that was developed to get around having to build a traditional system seems counter intuitive to me. I do BIAB except with a second sparge pot simply because I happen to have one. If I were going through this effort I'd have gone more traditional.

You never quoted who you were replying to, so I thought you were talking about the OP's (wobdee) set up.

 

[wobdee]

I thought about the temp loss after I had already started so next time I will use the heater manifold pipe to keep the temps steady. After everything was all said and done, it was a pretty successful brew day and I hit 76% efficiency according to iBrewmaster. Since this was the first time that I have used this set up I really just wanted to get a feel for how it will work and I'm sure I will tweak a few things on the next brew.

Did you squeeze the grains or do a sparge? I still have some tweaking to do on my system. My last batch was way under the OG I was hoping for. I like the recirculating idea and might steal your idea if my efficiency doesn't get more consistant.

 

[Skidsmint]

Did you squeeze the grains or do a sparge? I still have some tweaking to do on my system. My last batch was way under the OG I was hoping for. I like the recirculating idea and might steal your idea if my efficiency doesn't get more consistant.

I used the plate that Chad made and squeezed. I got a lot more sweet wort when I did that. I let it drip some more and then added that in during the boil.

 

[blaster_54738]

Did you squeeze the grains or do a sparge? I still have some tweaking to do on my system. My last batch was way under the OG I was hoping for. I like the recirculating idea and might steal your idea if my efficiency doesn't get more consistant.

You'll still have to deal with the heat loss that he suffered. May want to look into a RIMS tube then. I sent metallhed the start of my control box, they aren't that difficult to build after you sit down and look at some wiring diagrams.

 

[wobdee]

You'll still have to deal with the heat loss that he suffered. May want to look into a RIMS tube then. I sent metallhed the start of my control box, they aren't that difficult to build after you sit down and look at some wiring diagrams.

Since I'm brewing on a 1800w induction plate I was thinking of turning it on low and circulate with a pump to maintain temps.

I was actually pretty surprised that my mash only dropped 2 degrees in 60 min in my kettle with the lid on and I didn't even turn the heat on. Maybe I don't even need the pump and just keep it simple.

 

[blaster_54738]

Since I'm brewing on a 1800w induction plate I was thinking of turning it on low and circulate with a pump to maintain temps.

I was actually pretty surprised that my mash only dropped 2 degrees in 60 min in my kettle with the lid on and I didn't even turn the heat on. Maybe I don't even need the pump and just keep it simple.

Nah make it complicated :rockin: I forgot about your induction plate. If you really wanted you could wire up a pid to that and have it turn the hot plate on and off when the temp gets low. Put the temp sensor in that open bung on your kettle.

 

[Hermit]

Since I'm brewing on a 1800w induction plate I was thinking of turning it on low and circulate with a pump to maintain temps.

I was actually pretty surprised that my mash only dropped 2 degrees in 60 min in my kettle with the lid on and I didn't even turn the heat on. Maybe I don't even need the pump and just keep it simple.

What size batches do you do with the 1800 induction plate and what kind of times to reach boil? I'd think that size is right on the margin. Do you insulate your kettle at all?

 

[wobdee]

What size batches do you do with the 1800 induction plate and what kind of times to reach boil? I'd think that size is right on the margin. Do you insulate your kettle at all?

I do 2.5 gal brews so I end up boiling down 3-4 gal. I did a 6 gl boil test when I first got it and it took an hour to get it up to boil. I also need to keep the lid on to keep a good rolling boil. No insulation yet but I've been thinking about it.

 

[wobdee]

Nah make it complicated :rockin: I forgot about your induction plate. If you really wanted you could wire up a pid to that and have it turn the hot plate on and off when the temp gets low. Put the temp sensor in that open bung on your kettle.

Good idea

 

[MetallHed]

Nah make it complicated :rockin: I forgot about your induction plate. If you really wanted you could wire up a pid to that and have it turn the hot plate on and off when the temp gets low. Put the temp sensor in that open bung on your kettle.

Don't listen to Dustin.. he makes everything complicated! :cross:

 

[uberg33k]

Good idea

No, bad idea. Induction plates have controller boards, they aren't like heating elements. Once you cut the power to the plate, you kill the controller board. When it cuts back on, you'll have to wait for it to complete it's start up cycle, then put the set point temperature back in. You could attempt to replace the controller board entirely, but you'd have to design a PID that can drive a PWM circuit that will in turn drive a MOSFET into some scary current ranges for the home tinkerer (around 100A p-p). Also, you'll find that the magnetic field generated sometimes can do weird things to your thermometer and make accurate readings difficult.

Source: I tried working on this problem for 6 months before giving up.

 

[wobdee]

No, bad idea. Induction plates have controller boards, they aren't like heating elements. Once you cut the power to the plate, you kill the controller board. When it cuts back on, you'll have to wait for it to complete it's start up cycle, then put the set point temperature back in. You could attempt to replace the controller board entirely, but you'd have to design a PID that can drive a PWM circuit that will in turn drive a MOSFET into some scary current ranges for the home tinkerer (around 100A p-p). Also, you'll find that the magnetic field generated sometimes can do weird things to your thermometer and make accurate readings difficult.

Source: I tried working on this problem for 6 months before giving up.

Good to know, thanks, I think I'll stick with the KISS method.