My insane 25 Gal, 100 Percent Hard Plumbed Tri-Clover, Automated Tippy Build

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kickflip_mj said:
Just for you matt, I will be mashing water for hours!

Kinky. Just keep any pics in members only and label properly so we can all avoid :).
 
Haha oh god. So all the switches work properly, I'm surprised.... Except the burners. I may have incorrectly wired the transformer, because when I through the switch to on I heard a pop sounds and then nothing would happen after the fact. No bueno... I also think my breaker for my panel is to small. (15amps) because once I wired the gas valves it kept tripping.
 
You aren't powering heavy amp users like heating elements so I would be surprised if you are tripping the breaker due to over draw. Perhaps its a bad breaker. But, just the same, time to go through things and see if you have a short circuit or a ground fault.
 
You aren't powering heavy amp users like heating elements so I would be surprised if you are tripping the breaker due to over draw. Perhaps its a bad breaker. But, just the same, time to go through things and see if you have a short circuit or a ground fault.

thats what I though, but the breaker is wired directly off the main power in. When I wired in the power to the valves, thats when it started to trip when I would turn the power key. I dont see it being that because the power just goes to a bus bar. from there I have the transformers wired off those. I guess I need to wire the transformers again. Can they blow if wired incorrectly?
 
Figured out that like an idiot I ran the second 24v to 110 instead of the other side of the relay. rookie move and now I am going to purchase 2 new relays.lol
 
kickflip_mj said:
Figured out that like an idiot I ran the second 24v to 110 instead of the other side of the relay. rookie move and now I am going to purchase 2 new relays.lol

Don't feel bad. I still haven't gotten an amp meter to work. Smoked one and the next powers on but doesn't read anything but zero.
 
Ha that sounds like an annoying problem! So I am done fabricating. Finished drilling my sparge arm. Cost me 10 to make verses 60 to buy ImageUploadedByHome Brew1389721750.929070.jpg

Also finished wiring minus adding the transformers that blew up ( in the mail)ImageUploadedByHome Brew1389721809.661622.jpg
 
Well, I won't say its purdy...but, drilling on a radius is tough going. Can't argue with $50 though. I think I'm getting channeling from just running through a return hose so I might be doing the same thing myself.
 
Well, I won't say its purdy...but, drilling on a radius is tough going. Can't argue with $50 though. I think I'm getting channeling from just running through a return hose so I might be doing the same thing myself.

Haha it looks more turdy then purdy, drilling on a radius is tough even when things were marked. I'd recommend buying the damn thing from stout tanks. Drilling was WAY to much work. The thing is going to be hidden under my lid anyways.
 
Haha it looks more turdy then purdy, drilling on a radius is tough even when things were marked. I'd recommend buying the damn thing from stout tanks. Drilling was WAY to much work. The thing is going to be hidden under my lid anyways.

I might try to fab up an adjustable one like they sell at Morebeer as I don't really want to spray my wort when I recirc the HERMS. I imagine a little solder and copper would make something that works exactly the same for a fraction of the cost.
 
Glad to see this being discussed, I have a piece of silicon tubing as per the kal and sabco method and have not had great luck. The tubing wants to sink before the grain bed gets nice and settled. Which I feel like is causing channeling. I have my old lineloc sparge arm from my old kettle, but I can't go back to that without exposing my wort to threads, which was the whole point of the $2000 or so worth of triclamp stuff on my rig, I know the drilled spool/stout sparge arm will work for sparge, but ive yet to come up with a good solution for recirc. All ears over here...cheers...WNC
 
I might try to fab up an adjustable one like they sell at Morebeer as I don't really want to spray my wort when I recirc the HERMS. I imagine a little solder and copper would make something that works exactly the same for a fraction of the cost.

I was thinking the same thing, originally I was going to make the same thing you are talking about. We will see how bad my efficiency is going to be, and then I will start changing things
 
What's wrong with exposing pre-boil wort to threads? The only benefit of homebrew triclover on wort-making equipment is that it's relatively easy to clean. The typical chinese fittings are far from being sanitary level finish, homebrew pumps aren't sanitary, silicone tubing isn't sanitary.

Blichmann uses a stainless steel float on the end of the silicone tubing for their sparge device. I think you can special order just the float through a LHBS that carries Blichmann gear. One of those silicone foam stoppers might work too.

You should avoid recirculating wort through a sparge arm, it's going to cause a lot of shear stress and aeration.
 
What's wrong with exposing pre-boil wort to threads? The only benefit of homebrew triclover on wort-making equipment is that it's relatively easy to clean. The typical chinese fittings are far from being sanitary level finish, homebrew pumps aren't sanitary, silicone tubing isn't sanitary.

Blichmann uses a stainless steel float on the end of the silicone tubing for their sparge device. I think you can special order just the float through a LHBS that carries Blichmann gear. One of those silicone foam stoppers might work too.

You should avoid recirculating wort through a sparge arm, it's going to cause a lot of shear stress and aeration.

I couldnt agree more, the Chinese fittings arn't up to par, but I knew that when I installed them. I just went with all tri clovers because I could, and it would be easier to CIP.lol

I may remove the sparge arm and run some silicon tubing for the mean time.
 
What's wrong with exposing pre-boil wort to threads? The only benefit of homebrew triclover on wort-making equipment is that it's relatively easy to clean. The typical chinese fittings are far from being sanitary level finish, homebrew pumps aren't sanitary, silicone tubing isn't sanitary.

Blichmann uses a stainless steel float on the end of the silicone tubing for their sparge device. I think you can special order just the float through a LHBS that carries Blichmann gear. One of those silicone foam stoppers might work too.

You should avoid recirculating wort through a sparge arm, it's going to cause a lot of shear stress and aeration.

Shear stress from the saprg arm or the pump? What is the issue with aeration of the wort, I know some calim hot side aeration is a bad thing but there has been a lot of imperical evidence that it does not occur - I suppose if you do have aeration on the hot side then you need to keep it in the back of your mind for troubleshooting the beer later.
 
There will be shear stress from both the pump and the sparge arm. Even any time you make a sharp turn in the flow path there is going to be some shear stress. I don't believe that it's a major issue, but it is something to be aware of.

My suggestion is based on professional brewing literature. I don't know about a lot of empirical evidence, maybe there's some anecdotal evidence from homebrewers who may or may not know what they are talking about but still like to claim HSA is a "myth". In any case it's not a bad idea to avoid it if you can.

The chinese fittings are more than adequate for homebrew rigs, especially for helping with CIP. They don't make your system "sanitary", though, nor is it necessary to be "sanitary".
 
What's wrong with exposing pre-boil wort to threads? The only benefit of homebrew triclover on wort-making equipment is that it's relatively easy to clean. The typical chinese fittings are far from being sanitary level finish, homebrew pumps aren't sanitary, silicone tubing isn't sanitary.

Blichmann uses a stainless steel float on the end of the silicone tubing for their sparge device. I think you can special order just the float through a LHBS that carries Blichmann gear. One of those silicone foam stoppers might work too.

You should avoid recirculating wort through a sparge arm, it's going to cause a lot of shear stress and aeration.

I agree about the Chinese stuff also. I have no problem with preboil wort touching them either. I do have a problem with unscrewing them everytime I want to clean them. Triclamps are easier to clean in every way. Which IMHO makes them inherently cleaner. Thanks for the info on the float. I'll look into that
 
...My suggestion is based on professional brewing literature. I don't know about a lot of empirical evidence, maybe there's some anecdotal evidence from homebrewers who may or may not know what they are talking about but still like to claim HSA is a "myth". In any case it's not a bad idea to avoid it if you can...

Sorry I guess I actually meant anecdotal :D And I agree that HSA is not a myth as if it were there wouldn't be anything on the subject in the first place, just it doesn't seem to be an issue for homebrewers - but shouldn't to be ruled out as a potential reason for off flavours.
 
orangehero said:
What's wrong with exposing pre-boil wort to threads? The only benefit of homebrew triclover on wort-making equipment is that it's relatively easy to clean. The typical chinese fittings are far from being sanitary level finish, homebrew pumps aren't sanitary, silicone tubing isn't sanitary. Blichmann uses a stainless steel float on the end of the silicone tubing for their sparge device. I think you can special order just the float through a LHBS that carries Blichmann gear. One of those silicone foam stoppers might work too. You should avoid recirculating wort through a sparge arm, it's going to cause a lot of shear stress and aeration.

Easy to clean is no small matter IMO, ripping apart equipment and getting into those threads is a major PIA. Above that they make it easy to switch hoses around and easy to keep uniformity of fittings. As far as them being truly sanitary, probably most microbreweries suffer the same issue of quality. However IME it doesn't matter much, its pretty hard to get an infection that will ruin a beer.
 
Sorry to derail your thread somewhat MJ but...
Why are the asian TC not sanitary? I can understand the NPT adaptor ones but are you saying pretty much all of them arn't?
 
mattd2 said:
Sorry to derail your thread somewhat MJ but... Why are the asian TC not sanitary? I can understand the NPT adaptor ones but are you saying pretty much all of them arn't?

From the equipment I have, it's a matter of the sanitary welds not being finished well enough. The back flushed tig weld provides a non porous surface but to get sanitary it needs to be polished smooth and the inexpensive Chinese stainless is being okd to ship when there is still more work to be done. I could further polish the welds to get to a sanitary finish but it just isn't worth the labor.
 
From the equipment I have, it's a matter of the sanitary welds not being finished well enough. The back flushed tig weld provides a non porous surface but to get sanitary it needs to be polished smooth and the inexpensive Chinese stainless is being okd to ship when there is still more work to be done. I could further polish the welds to get to a sanitary finish but it just isn't worth the labor.

It was my understanding that there was no internal polishing done after welding sanitary tube - as long at there is not excessive reinforcement on the internal side of the weld you are good.
 
Very nice system, love the control panel layout. Best of luck sorting it out for the maiden run. Brew a lot of water and dial it in. Building a new system is like learning how to brew again. Take a look at the MaxOut Brewstation I use a siphon tip to disperse recirculated wort and sparge water and it works great. I have it on a short piece of stainless tubing inside silicone that allows me to adjust it to the right depth. For sparge I lift it up and for recirculation I put it right below the surface. No HSA and never clogs with grain bits, I use it on the keggle and the 45 gallon mash tun. I have camlok ports on all my lids and also use them to CIP.
 
It was my understanding that there was no internal polishing done after welding sanitary tube - as long at there is not excessive reinforcement on the internal side of the weld you are good.

Fittings, etc. need to be polished per the standard. Field weld pipes do not need to be polished but require a visual inspection to ensure the weld meets criteria for purge gas, penetration, weld profile, porosity, etc.
 
Sorry to derail your thread somewhat MJ but...
Why are the asian TC not sanitary? I can understand the NPT adaptor ones but are you saying pretty much all of them arn't?

Not even an issue, its nice to discuss this in detail. The reason I say that some of these chinese TC arnt sanitary, is that they are poured and not machined like others. they appear to have a rough surface.
 
Fittings, etc. need to be polished per the standard. Field weld pipes do not need to be polished but require a visual inspection to ensure the weld meets criteria for purge gas, penetration, weld profile, porosity, etc.

This is pretty hard to achieve unless you are a pro welder, so my rig is 95% sanitary.lol
 
Good point with the machining. So here is what I'm talking about, see that ring of rust? Obviously it needs hit with some BKF to clean out but that groove would not be there if it was sanitary.


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As far as them being machined. The left part is from glacier tanks, you can see the machining. The right came from stout tanks. Looks cast then polished like you said.



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That's exactly what I'm talking about! Thank you for posting pictures.

In the future if like to get a away from these threaded electric ball valves. But in the mean time, I don't want to spend the coin until something cheaper hits the market.

For a few months there I was working on sanitary electric ball valves. I was making progress but the costs seemed unreasonable for a homebrewer. Not only that I spent around $500 on RD that didn't end anywhere. now that I just mentioned this, I think I figured out how to fix a problem. Hmm what if I came up with a solution and just posted it for free so that anyone can create a valve without my added costs?
 
Good point with the machining. So here is what I'm talking about, see that ring of rust? Obviously it needs hit with some BKF to clean out but that groove would not be there if it was sanitary.


View attachment 172667


As far as them being machined. The left part is from glacier tanks, you can see the machining. The right came from stout tanks. Looks cast then polished like you said.



View attachment 172668

Just a heads up incase you dont like the double picture posting :D

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/those-you-iphone-454165/


Cant wait to see the whole thing put together. You 2 have some amazing and inspiring builds going on here :rockin:
 
kickflip_mj said:
That's exactly what I'm talking about! Thank you for posting pictures. In the future if like to get a away from these threaded electric ball valves. But in the mean time, I don't want to spend the coin until something cheaper hits the market. For a few months there I was working on sanitary electric ball valves. I was making progress but the costs seemed unreasonable for a homebrewer. Not only that I spent around $500 on RD that didn't end anywhere. now that I just mentioned this, I think I figured out how to fix a problem. Hmm what if I came up with a solution and just posted it for free so that anyone can create a valve without my added costs?

I haven't seen a close up of the ball valves you are using. Could you have a local welder drill out some end caps and then weld them on? If the ball valves are fps you would need to have them turned smooth too though.
 
I haven't seen a close up of the ball valves you are using. Could you have a local welder drill out some end caps and then weld them on? If the ball valves are fps you would need to have them turned smooth too though.



Thats exactly what I was thinking about doing. What do you think it will cost to have a machine shop lathe the threads out of a stainless 1/2 ball valve? Hmm maybe I should buy a small lathe and give it a go
 
Hmmmm.......I don't THINK, that any of those "tri clover" fittings are cast.

The "polished" vs. "machined" look is probably from the polished one going into a "vibratory" de-burring / polishing machine after manufacturing.

I could be mistaken.............I was once. :mug:
 
kickflip_mj said:
Thats exactly what I was thinking about doing. What do you think it will cost to have a machine shop lathe the threads out of a stainless 1/2 ball valve? Hmm maybe I should buy a small lathe and give it a go

That I couldn't tell you. I do want to find a welder to tack some TC fittings to my counter flow though. If you want to buy a lathe, I'd recommend looking into the HF mini lathe, I've come close to buying one many times. Also http://www.mini-lathe.com is an excellent resource to get started.
 
Thats exactly what I was thinking about doing. What do you think it will cost to have a machine shop lathe the threads out of a stainless 1/2 ball valve? Hmm maybe I should buy a small lathe and give it a go

It has been a long time since I was in a metal shop but I think using a milling machine would be easier than a lathe. But any competent machine shop should be able to knock that out pretty easily.
 
Hmmmm.......I don't THINK, that any of those "tri clover" fittings are cast.

The "polished" vs. "machined" look is probably from the polished one going into a "vibratory" de-burring / polishing machine after manufacturing.

I could be mistaken.............I was once. :mug:

I guess this makes twice. Still, an enviable record.
 
That I couldn't tell you. I do want to find a welder to tack some TC fittings to my counter flow though. If you want to buy a lathe, I'd recommend looking into the HF mini lathe, I've come close to buying one many times. Also http://www.mini-lathe.com is an excellent resource to get started.


Just drill out the TC end caps and solder them on like I did, it was super easy! ImageUploadedByHome Brew1390077064.585152.jpgImageUploadedByHome Brew1390077152.083931.jpg
 
Thats exactly what I was thinking about doing. What do you think it will cost to have a machine shop lathe the threads out of a stainless 1/2 ball valve? Hmm maybe I should buy a small lathe and give it a go

I recently used a pro welder down here in the bay area (mtn view) and he has a machine shop next door that has worked with him from time to time. The weld was 20 and the machining was 30. I had a TC 2" cap drilled out and had a 1/2" Tee , where i had the shop take out the threads one one side of the T, then put that end into the cap then had it welded (this is the base to my pressure fermenting in sankes btw) The finished product looked like a thing of beauty... I should take a pic and post it. I did feel like I was paying too much for that but you get what you pay for and as an hourly rate it aint that bad...imho
 
Just drill out the TC end caps and solder them on like I did, it was super easy!
that might be what I end up doing...I suppose stainless to stainless is no more difficult than soldering stainless to copper. Right now I have some of those screw on TC fittings but the goal is to not have any threads because I'm lazy and hate cleaning them
 
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