My Imperial Stout Recipe, getting ready for winter ha!

[KyleWolf]

Hey everyone.

So, I have a pretty solid, like my brew group says "brew it again or leave" solid American Stout recipe that involves a very healthy dose of Chocolate Rye Malt. So, for a pet project I am thinking of making up an imperial version of the recipe for the winter (6mo. should help it mellow ). But before I do, I just wanted to see what everyone thought. I don't think there is anything too outrageous in this recipe. Though I do expect atleast one comment of "too much chocolate rye" lol. But I am looking forward to the comments.

Imperial Stout
Estimated OG: 1.101
Estimated FG: 1.023 (so beer smith says, I bet I can get it 1.016)
IBU- ~91
SRM: 63

15.50lbs 2-row (74.7%)
02.25lbs Chocolate Rye Malt (250SRM) (10.8%)
01.13lbs Crisp Roasted Barley (550SRM) (5.4%)
01.00lbs Flake Rye (Toasted 30min @ 350F) (?) (4.8%)
00.88lbs Crystal 80 (80SRM) (4.2%)

2.00oz Columbus 45min (15.8%) 64.5IBU
1.50oz Centennial 10min (10%) 12.1IBU
1.50oz Willamette 10min (7%) 7IBU
1.00oz Centennial 5min (10%) 4.4IBU
1.00oz Willamette 5min (7%) 3IBU

Rogues Pacman yeast. (cake)
Mash around 153. Ferment at 68 in primary until it reaches 1.020 or so. then just hide it in a dark corner or a friends house for 4-6months.

Bottle condition and store for a while

Or I will just keg it and be sloppy drunk for a month straight. both seem like fun options.

So a question, this is basically taken from my original chocolate Rye Stout Recipe found here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/chocolate-rye-stout-214745/ the only difference being in the recipe I actually brewed is that I switched out the two different dark barleys for 0.75lbs of Crisp Roasted Barley (550SRM). The percentages for the grain bill are very close to the same.

One question I do have though, is, since it will be sitting for such a long time, does the 10 and 5min hop additions even matter? Should I remove all of that and hit it with a larger dose of columbus and save everything else for other recipes?

Looking forward to your comments
Kyle

 

[NegativeChirality]

Keep in mind I haven't done a beer that heavy all grain...so take my advice with a big grain of salt:

Mash temperature seems a bit high to me for something that high of gravity. Perhaps getting a bit more fermentable sugar by changing the temperature would be a good option--especially since you mention that you think you can get lower final gravity than what BeerSmith says.

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

if you want it to go below 1.020 I'd use some simple sugar. 5% table sugar will help dry it out without impacting flavor too much. An all grain beer that's over 1.100 OG is going to need help attenuating as low as you're targeting.

You may also think about doing a step mash. 40 minutes at 148 and 20 at 158. This will give you a very fermentable wort and ensure that you get full conversion across the range of both the alpha and beta amylase enzymes.

Also, your temperature during fermentation will be critical. You need to ramp it up a degree or two a day (5-8 degrees total) about 2/3rds of the way through to keep the yeast active working hard to get them to finish out the last parts of sugar and to clean up all the by products. They will want to quit early on you if you dont give them some encouragement.

Big beers require careful attention in order to ferment out dry. Hoping your yeast will just do it is not the best course of action.

On the other hand, 1.016 is on the low side for an imperial stout. It might be thin and harsh at this low of an FG...

 

[mightynintendo]

This is going to be a very chocolaty-grainy-nutty-roasty beer. That being said, you probably have enough crystal malts to contribute a significant-enough portion of sweetness and body with the flaked rye giving you plenty of sticky mouth feel. I'm with negative. Mash low for better attenuation.

 

[KyleWolf]

The yeast quitting early I feel may not be as big of an issue as you may think as I plan on pitching on top of a yeast cake. And Pacman is known for chewing through everything but the carboy

I did have an inkling that 153 could be too high of a mash temp. A step mash does sound like a good idea.

I also considered using simple sugar to a) lower grain bill and increase potential efficiency (my efficiency for high grav beers is pretty good. I break the bill up into 2 separate mashes and do a much longer boil), but I would be a bit cautious. Just as mashing low/finishing low could thin out the beer, adding simple sugars can do the same. That being said, maybe I should aim more for a 1.018-1.021 FG.

All of this being said though, If I do not hit my efficiency/target OG, I will probably supplement with DME/simple sugar to bring it to where it needs to be.

Thanks for the suggestions so far!

Any thoughts about the late hop additions are they more or less useless?

 

[KyleWolf]

Hey everyone. Sorry to pull this out of it's grave but this is now on my "On Deck" and I was thinking about adding the simple sugar that we were talking about.

I was wondering what you would recommend for the simple sugar.
Obviously just table sugar would be a smart choice, but I was wondering what people thought of:
Sugar in the raw (99% similar to table sugar I know, just askin)
Treacle
Maple Syrup
Candi Syrup
Caramel?

Just looking to see what everyone thinks. I know just a lb of of just about anything really won't impact the flavor when compared to the rest of the grain bill, but I was curious.

Looking forward to your input!
Thanks
Kyle

 

[dirty_martini]

I like the idea of candi syrup in this recipe. I feel like the crystal malt is a little low considering theres almost 3.5lb of roasted malt. I think you might need a little more sweetness to balance the roast. I think the dark candi syrup, either the D (80L) or the D2 (160L) would add some nice dark fruit or rummy notes along with the crystals caramel/toffee flavors.

That said, even with the sugar addition, with that high of a starting gravity, I would mash closer to 150. Once the gravity gets that high, your yeast will crap out at some point. To make sure you have the fermentables to get down to a FG that doesnt leave you with too much residual sweetness, the mash has got to be lower. Even with that, because of the sheer size of the beer it will still finish relatively high and give you plenty of body. I wouldnt aim for 1.016. I think 1.023-026 is a good place for it to end up.

 

[mkultra69]

This sound pretty much like what I had planed for this winter. Although I think I'm going to do a 10g batch and age 5 of it on coco nibs for a while. As for your questions on hops and sugar, I would lose the 5 and 10 minute additions. And like dirty martini said, the D or D2 (I really like the D2) would be nice. May be even add during fermentation to help the yeast out, and try and save some of the flavor. I would really like to hear how it turns out.

 

[KyleWolf]

So I went with a mixture of suggestions. I did my recipe, but I did add about a pound of sugar to attempt to make it more fermentable as well as drop my mash temp. The beer went from 1.095 to 1.012. It did exactly what I feared it would do and dropped too low. The flavor is where I wanted it. A beautiful blend of sweet and roasted malts. however, the FG was a good 7 to 10 points lower than expected. adding a significantly hotter and more alcoholic taste to the beer than I originally planned. I believe my recipe is solid and I do want to re-brew this. Though next time, I think if I will be pitching onto a yeast cake, I will keep a high mash temp of around 155. This beer was probably 85% of what I wanted it to be...hopefully with a bit more care, this will be something wonderful.

Also, this beer didn't appear to make it all the way to winter lol

 

[ashplub]

Yeah simple sugars have no place in this recipe. I think you are pondering a rebrew?? It sounds delish as it was. I might have split the crystal with maybe 60 and 120 or special B but I have never had choc rye so take that FWIW.

 

[KyleWolf]

Oh this is most definitely a rebrew. next time I will most likely nix the simple sugar and still mash higher. This beer is a monster can't wait to try it again.

 

[Bierliebhaber]

Hey Kyle,

This looks like a very tasty recipe. I would definitely go with your higher mash temp. However, if your brewery allows it, you may want to drop your ferment temp down to 63f then ramp up to 68 after a week. Also, I wouldn't be so quick to throw out the simple sugar. I brew a lot of RISs and I find adding store brand (better flavor) DARK brown sugar during fermentation adds a very nice touch--a slight molasses edge. Just my $0.02.

 

[KyleWolf]

Thanks Bierliebhaber,

Yeah, if I brew this again, I will most likely do it in the winter where I can keep it a bit cooler on the average. I am looking forward to doing it again. The recipe its self I absolutely love and I will be brewing the RIS's little brother probably sometime in December.