My friends and I jumped in feet first with no knowledge...

[casinogeves]

Now i am obsessed with learning all I can about home brewing. I can't wait to get my own kit, and try to make a stout. We made an IPA. We are still about a week and a half from finding out how we did. Here are my impressions of what brewing was like for a complete newbie:

http://iwritelikea5thgrader.blogspot.com/2011/09/home-brewing-for-by-dummies.html

 

[GodsStepBrother]

Congratulations casinogeves! I find it weird that you describe the smell towards the end of the boil horrific? I wonder what happened it usually smells beautiful!

Your statement about brewing being cheap wont hold long, as soon as the obsession takes root, you will be buying all the equipment affordable to you and looking at different ingredients to make different beers with. Congrats!

 

[subliminalurge]

Your statement about brewing being cheap wont hold long, as soon as the obsession takes root, you will be buying all the equipment affordable to you and looking at different ingredients to make different beers with. Congrats!

Nope, that certainly won't hold.

On paper, I can turn out 2 cases of microbrew quality beer for the price of 2 cases of BMC beer.

That's on paper. In reality, although I have everything "necessary" to make beer, every time I order ingredients I'm always throwing in some extra items along with the order that will make the process easier and/or more enjoyable.

You don't technically "need" a wort chiller to brew beer, but you're going to want one. There's an extra $50 or $100. You don't technically "need" a 10 gallon stainless steel brewpot with a ball valve and built in thermometer. But you're going to want one. There's a few hundred bucks. You don't technically "need" a kegging setup, but you're going to want one. There's $250 to get started, and then an extra $40 or so every time you want to add another keg. (Oops, now you also have to expand your CO2 setup, so you need a manifold, some more disconnects, another faucet, tubing. That $40 keg just cost you $120.) You don't technically "need" a fancy kegerator with stainless steel Perlick faucets and a polished mahogany finish to serve those kegs from, but you're going to want one. There's a grand, just to get started.

You don't technically "need".... Oh hell, you see where this is going... I still haven't covered yeast starters, stir plates, high output burners for doing full boils, filtering equipment, fermentation chambers, temperature controllers. Every time you turn around you'll see something that you don't really "need", but hey, it's only 50 bucks, so why not?

And that's all stuff you'll want while you're still doing extract. Sooner or later you'll want to go all-grain, and the cycle will begin again (only with bigger price tags).

I try to tell myself that the price difference for brewing vs buying the same quality beer is enough that I'm at least breaking even on my gear, but the truth is I know I don't really want to sit down and run the numbers and ruin that little fantasy.

But then again, I don't care.... And once you catch the brewing bug, you won't care either. It's just like any hobby, you do it because it's a hell of a lot of fun. Those guys driving around with 45 year old muscle cars that they sunk more money into than my house cost sure didn't do it because it was cheaper than buying a Prius.

I'd say that while it's easy to sit down and make the argument on paper that brewing is cheaper than buying, the very best you can hope for in reality is to break even on the money, but have better beer to drink for the money. And even that goal will be hard to stick to.

 

[h22lude]

Welcome!

Like the other two have said, it can get expensive so don't let yourself think you are saving money. Yes you can get away with only making partial boil extract kits on your stove with a basic brewing kit. You will only need the brewing kit, ingredient kit and brewing kettle. If you do that, you may be able to save money after 5 or so batches. $70 for a kit, $15 for a 4 gallon kettle and $35 for the kits...so around 5 brews will cover the cost of the kit and kettle and from there on out you will save $10 to $15 per batch instead of buying good micro brew (I figure $25 for a case of micro brew which is cheap). So it is possible to save money but I would say 98% of home brews (at least on this site) don't stop there. Like Subliminalurge said, every time I order ingredients I also put an item or two in my cart.

After my 2nd batch I got into kegging and I haven't stopped buy parts. Then after my 6 or 6th batch I got a bigger pot. Now I have a propane burner and a 10 gallon pot. I just made a wort chiller 4 days ago and I already took it apart to make it better (which will cost more money). I am then getting into AG so I will need a cooler and all the parts for that. I can stop there and start buying in bulk and at some point if I don't buy any more equipment I could break even but I don't see that happening. After I get the AG process down, I will make a brewing stand and then it is all over from there.

Let me just say that this is the best hobby I have had. I probably spend 2 hours each day either reading about brewing, reading this site or looking at online stores to see what I need.

Good luck with brewing and read read read. You will make some batches that you wished turned out better but you will learn from it. Write down everything you do. That will help you change your process to make better beer each time.

 

[iaefebs]

Nope, that certainly won't hold.

On paper, I can turn out 2 cases of microbrew quality beer for the price of 2 cases of BMC beer.

That's on paper. In reality, although I have everything "necessary" to make beer, every time I order ingredients I'm always throwing in some extra items along with the order that will make the process easier and/or more enjoyable.

You don't technically "need" a wort chiller to brew beer, but you're going to want one. There's an extra $50 or $100. You don't technically "need" a 10 gallon stainless steel brewpot with a ball valve and built in thermometer. But you're going to want one. There's a few hundred bucks. You don't technically "need" a kegging setup, but you're going to want one. There's $250 to get started, and then an extra $40 or so every time you want to add another keg. (Oops, now you also have to expand your CO2 setup, so you need a manifold, some more disconnects, another faucet, tubing. That $40 keg just cost you $120.) You don't technically "need" a fancy kegerator with stainless steel Perlick taps and a polished mahogany finish to serve those kegs from, but you're going to want one. There's a grand, just to get started.

You don't technically "need".... Oh hell, you see where this is going... I still haven't covered yeast starters, stir plates, high output burners for doing full boils, filtering equipment, fermentation chambers, temperature controllers.

And that's all stuff you'll want while you're still doing extract. Sooner or later you'll want to go all-grain, and the cycle will begin again (only with bigger price tags).

I try to tell myself that the price difference for brewing vs buying the same quality beer is enough that I'm at least breaking even on my gear, but the truth is I know I don't really want to sit down and run the numbers and ruin that little fantasy.


I'd say that while it's easy to sit down and make the argument on paper that brewing is cheaper than buying, the very best you can hope for in reality is to break even on the money, but have better beer to drink for the money. And even that goal will be hard to stick to.

Yes, but once you have traveled that road and buy your ingredients in bulk it is cheap to make a batch, you just need to buy some storage shelf's, storage containers, a foodsaver, a freezer, a couple scales, a mill....

 

[h22lude]

Yes, but once you have traveled that road and buy your ingredients in bulk it is cheap to make a batch, you just need to buy some storage shelf's, storage containers, a foodsaver, a freezer, a couple scales, a mill....

I agree going AG and buying in bulk will definitely save you money per batch but I would bet most of the home brewers will never break even with equipment bought.

 

[GodsStepBrother]

I agree going AG and buying in bulk will definitely save you money per batch but I would bet most of the home brewers will never break even with equipment bought.

Exactly if you ever get to the point of buying shelfs and such for all the grain you have to store (my current situation). Your in way over your head and spending money on better kettle, on new kegerator, new taps, new stir plate, temp control on everything including your starter. It becomes a non stop addiction of upgrades with the thought of getting better beer at the end.

 

[h22lude]

Exactly if you ever get to the point of buying shelfs and such for all the grain you have to store (my current situation). Your in way over your head and spending money on better kettle, on new kegerator, new taps, new stir plate, temp control on everything including your starter. It becomes a non stop addiction of upgrades with the thought of getting better beer at the end.

My thoughts exactly. There are always ways to upgrade the equipment you have. I'm probably well on my way to $2,000 in equipment and I am just breaking the surface of AG. I still need a mash tun, paddle, I could use a stir plate and flasks for starters...and that would be on the cheaper end. Going AG with all keggles, burners for each with automatic valves and pumps...man I could easily spend $10k by the time I get to an automated system. Then I would still find ways to upgrade something.

It is just a never ending spiral but I love it. Like I said, if you stick with partial boil extract on your stove top, you can easily save money...but why would you just wanted to stop there

 

[WHYB]

Yes, but once you have traveled that road and buy your ingredients in bulk it is cheap to make a batch, you just need to buy some storage shelf's, storage containers, a foodsaver, a freezer, a couple scales, a mill....

LOL, you got me on that one...

 

[kh54s10]

I have a spreadsheet going that updates the price per bottle including the cost of my equipment purchases. As it stands now: Bottles divided by total spent =
Batch 1 cost $13.46/bottle
Batch 2 6.87/bottle
Batch 3 4.37/bottle
Batch 4 3.29/bottle This is total spent divided by # of bottles filled.
This is about to go up a lot as I am going to buy equipment for all grain brewing.

If you count only the ingredients it adds up to about 55 cents per bottle, that sounds better doesn't it?

 

[subliminalurge]

I have a spreadsheet going that updates the price per bottle including the cost of my equipment purchases. As it stands now: Bottles divided by total spent =
Batch 1 cost $13.46/bottle
Batch 2 6.87/bottle
Batch 3 4.37/bottle
Batch 4 3.29/bottle This is total spent divided by # of bottles filled.
This is about to go up a lot as I am going to buy equipment for all grain brewing.

If you count only the ingredients it adds up to about 55 cents per bottle, that sounds better doesn't it?

I bet I know which number SWMBO hears....

I'd like to see how that spreadsheet turns out after you go to all-grain, then after you build your brewing stand, then after you buy the gear to make it an automated process.

And then at that point you're going to decide it's not worth farting around with dinky little 10 gallon batches, so you'll have to scrap everything and start over with bigger stuff.....

Yep, this is definitley one money saving hobby....

(And I'll admit that the "saving money" thing was actually an idea I used to hang onto back in the beginning. I've long since abandoned that. )

 

[isurf]

I friend of mine just purchased a 35,000.$ bay boat. He loves to fish, it's his hobby. I always wonder how many fish he has to land to justify the boat.

 

[Enrayged]

And... no one as mentioned time... how much time you spend on your hobby. It is time well spent but time is extremely valuable

 

[dnslater]

And... no one as mentioned time... how much time you spend on your hobby. It is time well spent but time is extremely valuable

This is actually the number 1 reason keeping me from going all grain. I will probably still get there eventually, but with my busy weekend family life, the longer brew days is intimidating.

 

[subliminalurge]

This is actually the number 1 reason keeping me from going all grain. I will probably still get there eventually, but with my busy weekend family life, the longer brew days is intimidating.

I can relate to that. I'm planning on going all-grain at some point soon, probably within the year, but the time factor involved means I'll probably keep on doing some extract batches here and there just to keep the pipeline full....

 

[casinogeves]

Congratulations casinogeves! I find it weird that you describe the smell towards the end of the boil horrific? I wonder what happened it usually smells beautiful!

Your statement about brewing being cheap wont hold long, as soon as the obsession takes root, you will be buying all the equipment affordable to you and looking at different ingredients to make different beers with. Congrats!

Yeah, i think i just got really sick of the smell after awhile. I grew up in latrobe near the rolling rock brewery, and the whole town always had that smell to it. For some reason it doesnt sit well with me.

As for the price aspect, i appreciate all the input. I just figured it would be a lot cheaper in the long run. Kind of like people whole roll their own cigarettes.

But we are now about a week or so out, so im pretty excited to see how the batch turned out!

 

[casinogeves]

I friend of mine just purchased a 35,000.$ bay boat. He loves to fish, it's his hobby. I always wonder how many fish he has to land to justify the boat.

Btw, this made me laugh. Bravo sir

 

[h22lude]

As for the price aspect, i appreciate all the input. I just figured it would be a lot cheaper in the long run. Kind of like people whole roll their own cigarettes.

But we are now about a week or so out, so im pretty excited to see how the batch turned out!

I thought the same exact thing when I started too. When you start, you really don't know how many different ways you can go with brewing and how much equipment there is out there. Just remember, this is a hobby not a way to save money. Rolling your own cigarettes isn't a hobby, it's a way to save money.

The excitment you have now with your first batch will never go away, at least for me it doesn't. Every batch I do I still have the same excitement as I did with my first. So much fun. Just be patient. Let your beer sit in the bucket for at least 3 weeks before thinking about taking a reading.

 

[drew1d]

Jumped in with my friend and brother. It's been great fun so far. We have started 3 batches so far, but haven't had a finished product. (not that I haven't already had a few uncarbonated beers.)

As for buying fancy stuff, sure the sky is the limit. But I think most people find the process they like and just go with it. For me I'm still finding my way. So between us, we have a few carboys, a few buckets, and a few brew pots. We'll hit our stride and go from there.

Although, I think fancy equipment would probably make the job much easier, I think that you can make a quality beer without it. Or at least, that's my current hypothesis.

-Drew

 

[h22lude]

Jumped in with my friend and brother. It's been great fun so far. We have started 3 batches so far, but haven't had a finished product. (not that I haven't already had a few uncarbonated beers.)

As for buying fancy stuff, sure the sky is the limit. But I think most people find the process they like and just go with it. For me I'm still finding my way. So between us, we have a few carboys, a few buckets, and a few brew pots. We'll hit our stride and go from there.

Although, I think fancy equipment would probably make the job much easier, I think that you can make a quality beer without it. Or at least, that's my current hypothesis.

-Drew

Oh you can definitely make great beer without "fancy" equipment. We aren't even talking about all the higher end stuff. Even buying simple stuff gets expensive. Cheap brew kettles, home made cooler mash tun, wort chiller...it all adds up. If you get the higher end stuff, it will be much more. $300+ for a brew kettle instead of $70. $200 for a plate chiller instead of $60 for a home made IC.

 

[subliminalurge]

Although, I think fancy equipment would probably make the job much easier, I think that you can make a quality beer without it. Or at least, that's my current hypothesis.

Oh, definitely. You can make outstanding beer with nothing but the original starter kit that all the homebrew places sell.

It's just that most people spot other equipment that really enhances their enjoyment. Like a wort chiller. Until you've used one, it's hard to describe how much nicer it is to have your wort down to pitching temp in 10 minutes instead of tending an ice bath for an hour and a half. Then if you use one and ever have to go back to ice bath (like when I had mine on a shelf in the garage and we had an unexpected early freeze which burst the copper tubing. Lost two expensive hose reels that night, too), you'll quickly begin to think of it as an essential item.

So it's not that you "can't" make excellent beer with just the basics, it's just that I'd bet at least 9 out of 10 homebrewers will eventually add on at least a couple hundred dollars worth of extra gear simply because some of it really does make the whole process more enjoyable.

 

[drew1d]

Oh you can definitely make great beer without "fancy" equipment. We aren't even talking about all the higher end stuff. Even buying simple stuff gets expensive. Cheap brew kettles, home made cooler mash tun, wort chiller...it all adds up. If you get the higher end stuff, it will be much more. $300+ for a brew kettle instead of $70. $200 for a plate chiller instead of $60 for a home made IC.

So it's not that you "can't" make excellent beer with just the basics, it's just that I'd bet at least 9 out of 10 homebrewers will eventually add on at least a couple hundred dollars worth of extra gear simply because some of it really does make the whole process more enjoyable.

I suppose I'll get there eventually, I'm happy with what I have so far. Till then,

 

[casinogeves]

I tried our brew last week finally. It turned out pretty well. It had a pretty good taste for our first attempt. It had a bit of a nasty after taste though. One problem was there was a bit of sediment build up in the bottle. Also, it ended up having a pretty high alcohol content in it, as we accidently put the priming sugar in before fermentation. I wouldn't call this brew a smashing success, but it was a decent first try. I would like to try a stout next.