My first three batches werent great...

[Daniel82]

So I have brewed three Extract kits on beer. None have turned out the way I would have liked. Some were just awful some just had a funky taste at the end and just werent good. I have been trying to isolate any problems I may have been having but am coming up short. Maybe if I explain my process someone may notice something I am doing wrong.

I order my kits from either northern brewer or midwest supplies. Living in MS I acquired a chest freezer with temp controller after my first two batches to keep the temp stable during fermentation (didnt save my last beer but was better than the others). I brew with gallons of distilled water so that should be a non-issue. I just recalibrated my temp probe and realized it was reading 8 degrees higher than it should have been (I'm hoping this is my problem). I follow instructions from the kit and also from palmers How to Brew Beer so I feel I'm steeping grains correctly and adding extract at the correct times. I need to do better at getting temps down before pitching but since my temp probe was reading high I dont feel this is a problem either. And finally I set the beer in the fermenter to do its work at the temp I choose.

I need to figure this out or I will have to consider giving up this hobby which I really have fun doing, but I am wasting money making bad beer. Please Help!

 

[birvine]

I think you'll have to be more specific about your process. Cleaning regimen? Temps for various stages? Time in primary, secondary (if any) and time in bottle before drinking?

B

 

[Manoau2002]

What temperature was it at? Also did you use Malt extract, Corn sugar, or cane sugar? Did you sanitize all of your equipment prior to use?

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Have you looked at late extract additions. Don't ask me about it, but everyone seems to say that it helps make a MUCH better beer. I'll be asking about this on my next beer which is gonna be a Hefe.

 

[rambler]

Welcome to this slightly insane "hobby"!!You may need to toughen up a bit if you want to get this hobby down, you cannot let three questionable batches get you down. All of those prior replies are good places to start. The key to good extract beer is sanitation, what are you using? Are you rinsing? You shouldn't be using distilled water either. The water your using may be more of a problem than you would think. The wort needs all of those minerals to come out right

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

I may be wrong, but I've heard distilled water shouldn't be used for extracts. Maybe just plain bottled water or filtered water, but I've heard that the extract needs some of the things found in bottled or tap water?

 

[Daniel82]

I didn't know that about distilled water. I use oxy clean free to soak and star sand to sanatize. I don't rinse. Would using a britta water filter for my water work?

And I don't wanna give up on the hobby either.

 

[rambler]

No The britta doesnt solve your problem. Because your brewing with extract just plain tap water should work, if you are boiling your wort. Your not at the point where you want to be messing with the water yet. I use iodophor exclusively. Its fast, dependable and and doesn't leave any off-flavors. And there is such a thing as over sanitizing. Just make sure your equipment is free from all obvious yucky stuff and then a 15 minute soak in iodophor and that should put you in good shape.

 

[Jud]

Just a thought but I have few questions. Where is your temp probe located at? The best and cheapest thing to do is tape it to the side of your primary in the middle. What temp are you pitching your yeast at? Are you making a starter? What kind of off flavors are you tasting? Is there any off smell?

 

[Brasco20]

Are you bottling or kegging? I was having the same problem, so i went back to bottling and have had great beer. Some guys on here told me to use distilled instead of spring because the extract was mashed with mineral water. I was getting infection somewhere in my kegs, not sure where yet, also my kegged beer was always cloudy.

 

[Daniel82]

A lot of questions but I will try to answer all of them. I just made my own stir plate and as soon as I get my stir bar in I will be able to make starters. I pitch my beer around 70 maybe still a touch warm. Going back to tbe water issue, I realize boiling the water solves the problem of the 2.5 gallons or whatever I'm cooking with but when I top off to 5 gallons in the fermenter I'm not positive I have good tap water where I live. My temp probe in my fermenter is taped and insulated to the side of the fermenting vessel.

Sorry for the jumbled paragraph this is from my cell phone. Thanks for helping me everyone.

 

[Oldyote]

I didn't know that about distilled water. I use oxy clean free to soak and star sand to sanitize. I don't rinse.

Could it be the oxy clean? You don't need to rinse the star san but I imagine the oxy clean could create a funky taste if any was left behind.

 

[MVKTR2]

First, welcome fellow Mississippian... misery loves company.

From the limited info, it doesn't sound like a sanitation/infection problem. Most off-flavors in homebrew tend to come from mistreatment of the yeast in some way: A) through under pitching/pitching too few yeast B)fermenting temps being too high(too low can also stress the yeast but is rarely a culprit).

How much yeast/what type are you pitching? 1 - 11 or 11.5 gram packet of dry yeast is good for 5.5 gallons of sub-1.050 yeast. You can stretch that number to 1.056 or so without stressing the yeast too much, but beyond that more yeast needs to be pitched. For a liquid yeast you need to produce a starter, volume depending on OG of your wort. Reference www.mrmalty.com for a pitch-rate calculator.

I'd ask you to describe how you're regulating your temps in your fermentation chamber/chest freezer? During the height of fermentation an average beer will ferment at a temp of 5-10 degrees higher than the ambient temperature due to heat created by the yeast during active fermentation... it's hard work eating all that sugar!

My 3rd guess would be water & 4th would be infection. I'm ruling out infection thus far, it's most often detected by a fermentation that continues on slowly for a long time (weeks rather than days) or visually as a growth in the bier. As for the water I'd test a batch with Kentwood spring water and see how it comes out. My local water is somewhat off due to the high amounts of limestone in the area, thus I use Kentwood brand or the kind you get at Family Dollar stores for all my brewing. This would eliminate the water issue, or confirm it as your source.

Schlante & Good Luck,
Phillip

Ps do you frequent The Keg & Barrel in Hburg? There's several brewers in that area & I believe they meet there for tastings sometimes. The brewer there Sam Sorrels could point you to them.

 

[Jud]

When you make your starter are you tasting it before you pitch to see if there are any off flavors. Got that from Brew Strong Pod Cast!

I try to pitch around 64 degrees.

Oxy Clean hmmm I have no idea if it throws off flavors, but I rinse the hell out of what ever I use it on. There was a pod cast on cleaners and rinsing water also, I think it was Brew Strong also.

 

[McGarnigle]

Did you buy new equipment or used? If you bought an old ale pail from someone else, it could be the source on an infection.

 

[rambler]

I suppose it would be good to ask exactly what you think is wrong with it. Can you describe the flavors, smells and appearance. This info would go a long way to solving your issue(s)

 

[Daniel82]

I bought all my equipment new. As far as taste goes the smell is fine, the appearence is actually really good, but the flavor just is not great throughout. The flavor starts out ok the longer its in your mouth and the aftertaste both get kinda funky as my brother described it. I've read through the off flavors section in Palmer's How to Brew and nothing fit it perfectly.

I bottle conditioned the beer for 3 weeks at temps in the low 60s during the day so at night it may have dipped even further. I know ideal is 70ish but we had a wicked cold front and the closet I keep my beer in stays colder than the rest of the house.

My beer at the week old stage had a very strong rubbing alcohol taste at the end which subsided after it sat longer. Maybe this beer will get better if it sits another few weeks. The last one that tasted bad has been sitting for 6 months and it still doesnt taste good.

One more strange question. My SWMBO said that the beer tastes fine while in the bottle but when we poor it into a glass the after taste comes out strong. I noticed what she was saying but wasnt sure there was any big correlation there. Is there a chance she is on to something?

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Some folks say to not pour the entire bottle into a glass. Instead leave a little in the bottom of the bottle since there may be some yeast or sediment in the bottom of the bottle. I've not run into this problem yet, just passing on what I've heard. Anyone who can confirm if this is a problem?

 

[rambler]

Well if the appearance is good thats actually a very good sign. Contamination will always leave the beer cloudy. So thats a big plus!. But the flavors you are drescribing are called phenols. There are a lot of thing that cause them. Anything from some strains of yeast to temperatures and ESPECIALLY sanitizers. I will get them if I ferment too warm (say73+) and would decribe them as a bandaid flavor. Does this describe them?

 

[bruin_ale]

I'd say 73 even is fine.. of course it depends on the yeast, but with the ale yeasts I was using before I had a fermentation chamber I didn't run into issues until about 80 degrees or higher.

 

[rambler]

I suppose it would be important to know what yeast he is using. I do know that finding out what cause the strange, indescribable off flavors is absolutely maddening!!! i went through a spell of about two years when all of my beers had some strange medicine-like flavors in the finish. No matter which yeast i used it was always there to one degree or another. I finally decided to brew a kit just to see if i was screwing up the grain somehow. After it was finished that damned flavor was there again. I was finally able to trace it back the the cleaner i was using. Now that i've quit that ,it is gone. But it took a long time to trace it.

 

[Daniel82]

I wouldnt say its a bandaid flavor but then again I dont know what that would taste like exactly. The beer is suprisingly clear after being in a primary for 4-5 weeks with no secondary. It doesnt taste horrible I would say its drinkable but its not something I would choose to drink with that aftertaste.

 

[Daniel82]

It was American ale II yeast in a smack pack

 

[bruin_ale]

yeah, if you're not rinsing after using oxy-clean that'd be the first thing I change.
band-aid type phenols usually come from a cleanser, the type I was getting from warm ferments tasted like banana. It's a somewhat welcome flavor in a bavarian hefe, but tastes awful in a west coast pale ale. Cool thing was that I was able to taste that flavor in a local brew pubs pale as well, so I advised the brewer and was told their cooling unit broke.

 

[kingmatt]

I was having some of the issues you describe in my first few batches and found the moving to a full boil and doing late extract additions have made a big difference.

You already have the temp control thing down and that was another big one that helped my beer.

If you have the ability, do a full boil and only add a small amount of your extract in the beginning of the boil (or none at all if you are partial mashing). Since extract has already been boiled and sanitized, you don't need to boil it for all 60 min. I have been adding most of my extract with only 10 min left in the boil and on my next batch I am doing a partial mash and plan to add all my extract at flameout.

The late extract additions will help prevent caramelization which has been known to affect color and taste in extract beers.

My only other advice would be to stick with it. It seems like ever batch I brew gets a little better than the last one

 

[rambler]

I did just think of something else you could be dealing with is oxygen. If your leaving it in a secondary 4-5 weeks that could also be a problem. Thats a long time for an extract. Does it take that long to clear? How smoothly are your transfers going? You may want to try just leaving it in the primary for a long time and see if you still get the flavor.

Like I said earlier, this "hobby" can drive you insane. Try changing one thing at a time and be as scientific about it as you can. If this means that you need to brew more, so be it. Take careful notes and pay attention. Sometimes it can be as simple as the water your using, You can also get bad kits.

 

[JohnTheBrewist]

Are you using distilled water and then topping off with tap water? In the old days, when I brewed extract, I found that I liked using all distilled water better. My water was so hard that it added a nasty aftertaste.

I've never liked drinking homebrew directly from the bottle because you end up stirring up the yeast sediment. IMHO it is best to get the bottles nice and cold so the yeast compacts well on the bottom, then pour slowly into a glass leaving just a little beer and all of the sediment in the bottom of the bottle. I think it also tastes best if it has bottle conditioned for at least 6 weeks.

Moose

 

[wi_brewer]

What temp are you steeping your grains at? My first couple of batches turned out horrible because of a broken thermometer which led to steeping them too hot (>170). This led to tannins being released from the grain and a real strong "alcoholy" after taste. That taste won't go away with age.

Also, you should steep grains in no more than 1 gallon of water per pound of grain.

 

[Daniel82]

Ok I'm liking all the suggestions I'm getting and its helping me to focus on a couple of key areas I think I need the most work in.

First I need a little clarification on whether distilled water is good or bad for extract beer. I need to do research and find out whats in my tap water but I work at a place where gallons of distilled water are available and have been using that since I started.

I believe I may have been steeping grains at the wrong temp due to my thermometer not being calibrated correctly.

I do soak in oxyclean to clean my fermenting vessels, but I always rinse several times including one with a splash of vinegar to rinse out the "oxy clean slick".

I need to read more into late extract additions which I am excited about trying.

 

[johnp]

Spring water will have all of the minerals that distilled water lacks, and its still sterile.

 

[dandw12786]

Yes, but minerals aren't needed for extract brewing, they are needed for AG.

 

[Yooper]

Ok I'm liking all the suggestions I'm getting and its helping me to focus on a couple of key areas I think I need the most work in.

First I need a little clarification on whether distilled water is good or bad for extract beer. I need to do research and find out whats in my tap water but I work at a place where gallons of distilled water are available and have been using that since I started.

I believe I may have been steeping grains at the wrong temp due to my thermometer not being calibrated correctly.

I do soak in oxyclean to clean my fermenting vessels, but I always rinse several times including one with a splash of vinegar to rinse out the "oxy clean slick".

I need to read more into late extract additions which I am excited about trying.

Distilled water is fine, but spring water is ok too. You just want to have water that tastes good and is chlorine and chloramine-free. Use whichever is cheaper- the malt extract has already been made for you with the water profile of the manufacturer so you don't have to worry about minerals and all that stuff.

Skip the oxyclean next time (but we all use it with good results). No vinegar, though! Rinse with nice hot water, but no vinegar.

A good thermometer will help.

If you're not making starters with the liquid yeast, use dry yeast until you get your flavor issues licked. Try S04- which ferments fast and leaves a clear beer, at no higher than 66-68 degrees. BEER temperature, not room temperature! Fermenting beer can be as much as 8-10 degrees warmer than the room it's in, so make sure you have a stick-on thermometer for the fermenter to monitor the temperature.

 

[Daniel82]

Ok I just got a new better bottle for my birthday so no need for oxyclean and no chance for it to be infected from a previous batch. This will be the first time I use a starter for my beer also (I get to use my DIY stir plate that I found on this forum). I'll keep with the distilled water.

Last concern. If I tape my temp probe to the side of the fermenting vessel and insulate it do I still need to set the temp 8-10 degrees cooler than the suggested fermenting temp or will it read the true temp of the beer?

 

[Conan]

First, don't quit- my first 10 batches SUCKED. I mean, I tried to give them away and nobody was interested....myself included. Time did not heal these wounds, and due to lack of a brewpot I did not brew for almost a year. Came back, jumped from my prior extract to PM and, next batch, AG and problems solved. Also, I moved from an unknown no-rinse sanitizer to 1-Step, as well bottled water from Target. I guess I don't have much to add that hasn't been covered technique wise, just to say don't quit just yet.

If your thermo. reads wrong, I'd adjust your temp for that- my boil thermo. is 8 degrees high so I just factor that into my process. Why don't you need Oxy for a BB? I'm unfamiliar with this, not saying it's right or wrong. Kyle

 

[Daniel82]

I was just saying the the BB is new and shouldnt need to be soaked to remove any nasties. Thanks for the support I wanna figure it out cause I love good beer and being able to make it myself would be very rewarding.

 

[Scottatron]

My recommendation would be to switch to spring water and rinse the oxiclean if you can.