my first batch from a brewhouse kit (just tasted it)

[fredthecat]

hey, first post, but ive read this forum for a while for advice while i was brewing and for future recipes and i found it very useful and seemed pretty friendly and relaxed.

so, my first batch was a munich dark lager kit from "the brewhouse", i followed the instructions which said to let it primary ferment from 3-5 days... it was pretty vigorous so i transferred it to the secondary fermenter after about 3 and a half days.. and let that sit for 14 days, as the instructions said, added priming sugar-water solution, then bottled it. i just opened one of the smaller size bottles after 4 days of being bottled, and its alright... though it is almost uncarbonated and feels quite thin in both body and flavour (my fault, i set the beer to sit in a place that is slightly too cold, and have just moved them to a warm spot so they do carbonate). thankfully sanitization was no big problem as i was extremely thorough each time.. it doesnt have any severe off flavours except a slightly chemical feel.

sorry thats so long, basically i have a few questions...

the chemical taste i believe may be caused by there being a few drops (less than 5ml at the most)remaining of the diluted iodophor solution i used for sanitizing in about half of the bottles, simply because i did not let them dry long enough... is that dangerous?

if i were able to redo this batch from the start, would it make more sense to use the same formula but allow it to primary and secondary ferment for longer? or to have kept a roughly similar timeframe as the instructions suggest but have used some extra grain purchased to flavour the 6 litres of water i added to the brewhouse wort (it suggested 8 litres) and dry hop it a week before bottling?

and any other suggestions for a first time?? i would love any feedback.. i just want to try to learn as much as i can, as i cant wait to get back on the horse as soon as i think i know what to do

thanks!


(by the way, i tried looking for related threads.. but couldnt find any related to everything i needed)

 

[Wyldjim]

I am a newer member to the forum myself and am getting used to the computer thing.

Go to the sticky near the top that says FAQ and then Read the recomended threads "Read these Important." I think this is the link:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/stone-cold-lead-pipe-lockd-n00b-advice-54362/

I just read it, took about an hour, it will answer I think all your questions.

You have a lot of good questions, but it will be clearer to read this info. Learned some good things myslef and I've been brewing Extract/Partial Mash almost 20 years (But, I am still learning).

The short answer to your questions is: don't worry, it will all be fine. Give it time. The santizer is no rinse you may have bottled too early. Did you take hydrometer reading?

My personal advice. Stick to simple ales to start. Lagers are more complicated and need controlled temp and lots of time.

I started trying to brew lagers a long time ago, in a land far far away (Winnipeg) They are frustrating for the new brewer and more prone to mistakes (Mainly, selfdoubt

If you like beer, you will love ales, trust me (I only drank lagers before I started brewing).

What part of Canada by the way?

 

[Raveontec]

I have only brewed 4.5 beers so far (one is in the secondary fermenter) but I had some of the same questions early on.

From what I have been told a couple drops of iodophor really shouldn't add much flavor based on the ppm of the solution and then being diluted more by the beer. However it wouldn't be a bad idea to let it dry longer. I didn't buy a drying rack for bottles so I like to use my dishwasher after a cleaning cycle. Sometime I even put the bottles in for a dry cycle and let them cool off before bottling.

As for the length of time in the fermenter. I too had read this 3-5 day stuff before and really messed a beer up because of it. From what I have been told, the darker the ale the longer it will likely need to ferment. At this point I tend to let it sit for at least 2 weeks. After a week or so I move it to the secondary and then after another week or so I bottle depending on what I see related to clarity, bubbling, and krausen.

Back to the chemical flavor. What kind of water are you using? Meaning did you use city water, well water, or what? If there was a decent amount of chlorine it can cause phenols in the beer which will add a strange almost grassy flavor in my opinion. Had that happen to my second ale which was either related to the chlorine in the tap water or to the no rinse solution I was using at the time (I now use iodophor). It was recommended that I use a charcoal filter so I know put all my water through a Brita. Since the use of the Brita the ale I brewed has been much better. Beer is after all mostly water.

Hopefully these answers help you out. If anyone more knowledgeable sees any issues with this please feel free to correct me.

 

[smmcdermott]

Alright, a couple of things to take away from this. First, I have no idea about idophor because I do not use it, but if it is no rinse, should not be a problem.

Things you should do differently:

1) use a hydrometer to make sure fermentation is complete before transferring to a secondary. When the gravity is the same for three days, fermenting is done (unless it stalled at a high number) and ready to be transfered. 3 to 5 days is way too early, I wait at least two weeks before transferring. If you do not have a hydrometer, GET ONE.

2) Secondary is not necessary. There are a lot of threads on here that debate this topic and I will not repeat all the differences, but secondary is used to condition/clear a beer and is used mostly when the beer needs longer to ferment.

3) How dark a beer has nothing to do with length of fermentation. A higher gravity beer will normally mean a longer fermentation period, but letting something condition in the bottle for longer will help more than you think.

4) Worst lesson in brewing: Patience is a virtue. Three weeks to carb up is the genereal rule of thumb, you opened one way too early. I do not blame you though because I was curious on my first beer too and opened one after a week. Leave it for two more weeks and it SHOULD be carbonated. If it isn't that is normally fine, leave it another couple of weeks. Revvy has a thread on this that is a huge help, search for it (I forget the name of it) and read it.

5) Lagers, as stated before, need temperature control. If you do not have something to keep the temperature in the range needed, stick to ales. IMO ales are easier becuase of this.

6) When in doubt, ask before. These forum is AWESOME and there are very knowledgable people on here. Nothing worse than waiting 2 months for a beer that you screwed up and could have been corrected had you posted a question and waited a day to brew.

I think that should be some good advice for your next beer.

P.S. - You still made beer, but following some simple rules will help make that beer better. Read Palmer's How to Brew, you can find it online for free and is another awesome source.

 

[simplyred]

Just to add in, my general rule is the 213 which you will find on these forums. 2 wk primary 1 wk secondary 3 wk bottle conditioning. Couple days in the frig. 4 days in bottle is way to early. There is a youtube video of a guy that opens a bottle every few days that will show you the difference, but I can't find it. From 2 to 3 weeks makes a big difference. And also a large thread about how much better your beer will taste the longer you wait. It's true, my first beers which are a few months old taste way much better!

Have Fun!

 

[Raveontec]

How dark a beer has nothing to do with length of fermentation

I believe what the people who told me thought is that typically a darker ale would have a higher starting gravity which ties into what smmcdermott said. Of course this is not always true.

Quick question about the 213 rule. Is there any harm in moving to secondary earlier?

 

[bce22]

I believe what the people who told me thought is that typically a darker ale would have a higher starting gravity which ties into what smmcdermott said. Of course this is not always true.

Quick question about the 213 rule. Is there any harm in moving to secondary earlier?

Harm is such a strong word.

Leaving the beer on the yeast for 2 weeks or more ( I prefer 3 - 4 weeks) allows the yeast to clean up their byproducts and allow for a better finished product.

There is still yeast in suspension when you move to a secondary vessel, however not NEARLY as much as what was in the primary. If your beer hasn't completed primary fermentation it will most likely finish up in the secondary (which is alot better than in a bottle!!!!) however you "may" end up with off flavors that would not have been there if you left it alone for a little while longer in the primary. Or these flavors just may take longer to disappear through bottle conditioning.

I don't want to give the idea that i am saying that if you rack to a secondary and if it's before 2 or three weeks you will get off flavors. Nothing's a guarantee. I just don't like taking unnecessary chances with my brew.

 

[Raveontec]

Good to know bce22. Thanks and sorry for taking it off topic.

 

[fredthecat]

thanks for the assistance very much, alot of useful info and questions answered. (thanks wyldjim!)

i guess number one i should just relax and let it sit for another 2 weeks, and see how it is then which is good news.

so in future batches i am definitely going to allow the tap water to boil and sit out for a bit to remove any treatment chemicals

technically i guess it was described as a "lager" but it came with coopers ale yeast heh, next time i plan on asking for a more specific yeast i think, just to see how that turns out

yup i do use a hydrometre, final abv was 5.5%. i wasnt totally aware of what the real goals of primary and secondary fermentation were exactly, which is very useful to know and the 213 (if not a bit more!) idea makes alot of sense to me now that i think about it.

but im already itching to start a new batch and correct any errors, and eager to attempt to do a partial mash out of the water im supposed to add to the brewhouse wort kit. i was thinking of choosing the pilsener kit and adding some extra vienna or some kind of malt to it and extra hops.. but as you said lagers are not the best to start with, should i try this with a stout instead?

thanks for the easy going replies by the way

 

[boo boo]

I think the taste has to do with the pH correction solution that comes with those kits. I wasn't fond of them and preferred Barrons over the brewhouse.
Do you hace access to Feista kits. Much superior I have been told and having tasted the West Coast Pale Ale that was sent to me, have to say it was great.

BTW, welcome to this forum.

 

[fredthecat]

hmm yeah i just remembered the ph correction package, that might be a culprit! i think at the one brewstore i go to they have coopers extracts and brewhouse, there are a few other brewstores in this city which i actually havent checked yet, but the owner of this store recommended brewhouse quite strongly. i really should go check out the other stores some time to see what my options are

 

[Wyldjim]

I do not use kits to brew. So, I don't recognize the brands you are talking about.

But, if you are doing extract brews I doubt you are having water problems. If your water is really bad (Like it smells or something) yes talk to the brew store in your area about what to do. If you want to filter your water go ahead, but don't worry about it.

Keep to simple, brew simple uncomplicated ales until you get the process down. (follow the recipe, no alterations for 5-10 brews).

You don't need a secondary for most of these beers. I rarely secondary, unless it is going to sit for more than 4-8 weeks or Lager.

Your beer needs time (to ferment and to condition), you will find it is a natural process like baking bread.

Sanitary and stable temp. (Room temp for ales) and your beers will be fine.

Prost

 

[opusx11]

Fredthecat, I've done two brewhouse kits (the cream ale, and the canadian light lager) and I found that both required way more conditioning time in the bottles than the instructions provided, and also much more than the minimum three weeks that most people here go by. Both kits prob needed more like 8 weeks before they were perfect. Like you, I use Iodophor for sanitizing as star-san seems to be hard to find in Edmonton (I'm Canadian also), and the little bit left over will absolutely not alter the taste or add a chemical flavour. I suspect you are tasing the 'green-ness' and just need to let them condition in the bottles for more time. Since this is your first kit, and you are probably excited to drink your brew, it might be a good learning experience to drink one or two every week and notice the change in taste. I did this on a suggestion from someone at this site and it really help set my expectations for kit #2.

 

[Wyldjim]

Fredthecat, I've done two brewhouse kits (the cream ale, and the canadian light lager) and I found that both required way more conditioning time in the bottles than the instructions provided, and also much more than the minimum three weeks that most people here go by. Both kits prob needed more like 8 weeks before they were perfect. Like you, I use Iodophor for sanitizing as star-san seems to be hard to find in Edmonton (I'm Canadian also), and the little bit left over will absolutely not alter the taste or add a chemical flavour. I suspect you are tasing the 'green-ness' and just need to let them condition in the bottles for more time. Since this is your first kit, and you are probably excited to drink your brew, it might be a good learning experience to drink one or two every week and notice the change in taste. I did this on a suggestion from someone at this site and it really help set my expectations for kit #2.

+1

(3 weeks at 70 degrees to bottle condition) is minimum

If you, check out the link in post #2 it will expain alot of stuff. I was trying to be clear and not too wordy. I'm Canadian, and Like to talk eh:cross:

I haven't been in a Canadian Homebrew store since (Winnipeg, 1993) Wow, I'm old

Are you able to order from the states? or only from local stores? There are a lot of good sites to order from here (US). And the dollar is strong. I've been using Idophor since 1996.

Just got the Star-San to get the nooks of my kegs.

Edmonton, Sweet, Club Ed? Oh, and Opus, update you profile. You are listed as a female. If we know what city you live in it helps those near you offer advice on stuff.

 

[lurker18]

Fredthecat, when you say you remember the pH adjuster, did you use it? Brewhouse system takes the concentrated wort and does something with it so the wort is so off balance pH wise that nothing can contaminate it. The balancer is a must to get this back in line. I have done 6 Brewhouse kits, and they have all turned out, some much better than others. As others have said, let these sit. The instructions rush you through the process much too quick, sure it will work, but letting them sit really cleans the beer up. I have let mine sit in the fermentor (tried secondary and no secondary) for almost two months, and the beer tasted as they should. I would suggest getting things the way you want them before really monkeying around with additives, learned this by experience.
Welcome another Canadian to the board.
Also, I found out from my LHBS that getting StarSan into Canada is going to be nearly impossible. The hoops they have to jump through to get a hazardous chemical across the boarder, and the fact that it can be reused, makes it not worth it for them.

 

[opusx11]

Wyldjim: I actually never thought about ordering from a US store, I'll have to check it out and see what the prices are like when you factor in brokerage fees. I did look into a Canadian online store and I didn't like the price when shipping when was factored in. 8oz bottle of Star-San was $13.95 CDN, but shipping was $20.95! Oh and thanks for the profile tip, I've edited it now