My Electric Brewery

[augiedoggy]

Try looking at ebrewsupply.com, personally I find it easier and cheaper to buy the parts from him as opposed to those remaining radio shack stores. Look at his DIN hardware. Makes for a very clean looking setup as well. As far as eBay, I quit them after 15 years since I'd rather pay more and have something quickly than wait weeks for eBayChina parts to arrive.

Not to get off topic again but its the same "china" based hardware as places like ebrew just stock and mark up to 35-100% over ebay prices as a "stocking charge" This quickly adds up to a few hundred dollars extra on a brew panel or thousands on a complete build... The whole one shop for everything isn't really practical unless there is some sort of important timeline you need to meet which for a HOBBY like this just isnt the case (If your operating a business that could be a different story).

Different suppliers are going to get better prices on different products... Even Walmart who also buys most of their stuff from china does not offer the best prices and deals on everything.. I priced out one of ebrews $300 diy packages and found that as long as I dont mind waiting and extra week / week and a half I could order the equivalents for about $175 from ebay...
My local radioshack has terminal blocks for as low as $2.49 and I have NO shipping wait or costs... since I was already going there to pick up solder , fuses and other odds and ends I figured way not buy it there and help keep the local option in business for when I really need them. Radioshack may not be what it used to be but its still saves me some serious time and long trips when I can source hardware to repair something that no one else carries...

Back on topic

 

[HumulusHead]

I stole this picture from another thread, but thought this would help me to explain what I THINK i should do.

MY coils are 240v.

So here are my thoughts

F- L1 from switch from PID
C- L2 from terminal block
E- L2 from SSR
A- L2 to element
D- L1 from terminal block
B - L1 to element

Does that sound right?

 

[augiedoggy]

I stole this picture from another thread, but thought this would help me to explain what I THINK i should do.

MY coils are 240v.

So here are my thoughts

F- L1 from switch from PID
C- L2 from terminal block
E- L2 from SSR
A- L2 to element
D- L1 from terminal block
B - L1 to element

Does that sound right?

as far as the switch since your using a 240v coil you just run the F from L1 on the terminal block to the switch and then to "F" as well, not the pid.... My setup uses 24vdc coils in my relays which confused things more when thinking it through...

 

[HumulusHead]

as far as the switch since your using a 240v coil you just run the F from L1 on the terminal block to the switch and then to "F" as well, not the pid.... My setup uses 24vdc coils in my relays which confused things more when thinking it through...

I keep thinking that because of the diagram in my OP. Take a look at that quick if you can. On the PID, it looks like a wire comes from terminal 13 and goes to the switch???

What does terminal 13 do then?

 

[HumulusHead]

I keep thinking that because of the diagram in my OP. Take a look at that quick if you can. On the PID, it looks like a wire comes from terminal 13 and goes to the switch???

What does terminal 13 do then?

AH it appears that its 120v used to power the Alarm??

 

[augiedoggy]

I keep thinking that because of the diagram in my OP. Take a look at that quick if you can. On the PID, it looks like a wire comes from terminal 13 and goes to the switch???

What does terminal 13 do then?

2 things... the diagram shows 120v coils and also shows the power coming from a contactor being used as the main power switch.... thats fine but I chose to instead switch my pid/timer power and 24v powersupply on one single 10A switch (there's a 1 amp fuse protecting this circuit so the draw is small) anyway since my relay coils run off 24v there's no chance of any of my relays working and this also effectively kills all the hot power to my elements.

 

[BlkWater_brewer]

Not to get off topic again but its the same "china" based hardware as places like ebrew just stock and mark up to 35-100% over ebay prices as a "stocking charge"
Back on topic

I don't disagree with you. Personally I feel that eBay pretty much has gone down the porcelain receptacle. Yes you can get parts from China cheap, and yes ebrew parts are chinese. However he has them and they are only 2-3 days away. Myself I am inpatient, I want things now and am willing to pay a bit extra to get them. Sadly the Radio Shacks around me are pretty much Cell Phone stores. For my Arduino parts - Amazon Prime beats their prices by about 35%, for that I'll wait the 2 days.

Back to the main point. With ebrew you can see what parts are needed, even if you want to go save a dollar or two and buy elsewhere. In all fairness, I have yet to hear from anyone that has been able to beat his "kit" prices for the basics by spending hours sourcing them. They are a good reference source, no matter. Same thing with Auberins.

 

[augiedoggy]

I don't disagree with you. Personally I feel that eBay pretty much has gone down the porcelain receptacle. Yes you can get parts from China cheap, and yes ebrew parts are chinese. However he has them and they are only 2-3 days away. Myself I am inpatient, I want things now and am willing to pay a bit extra to get them. Sadly the Radio Shacks around me are pretty much Cell Phone stores. For my Arduino parts - Amazon Prime beats their prices by about 35%, for that I'll wait the 2 days.

Back to the main point. With ebrew you can see what parts are needed, even if you want to go save a dollar or two and buy elsewhere. In all fairness, I have yet to hear from anyone that has been able to beat his "kit" prices for the basics by spending hours sourcing them. They are a good reference source, no matter. Same thing with Auberins.

You are kind of counterdicting yourself here... You state you would rather wait for shipping times vs pay a 35% markup at radioshack for aurduino stuff yet you state at the same time you would rather order your parts from ebrew or auberins which has a 35% MINIMUM markup on most of what they sell... ebrew is not really as unreasonable as auberins in my opinion but to pretend the guy doesnt mark the stuff up and its priced as good as one can find it individually (which often stated here) is just BS! hes operating a business to make money as a middleman and does not provide this service for free.. You say you have yet to hear where anyone has been able to beat his prices yet I just said in the previous post I was able to price out the components in one of his $300 kits for under $200 elsewhere? I'm not bashing anyone here but I am trying to keep the FACTS straight as for as prices go.

I'm sure you have seen the many posts where I have compared the exact same components manufactured by the same people as sold by auberins vs direct from a china via amazon or ebay sellers and most of the time auberins prices are more than double once you factor shipping ... thats 100% markup!

Most people who buy from them dont want to hear after the fact about how they overpaid so this isnt something thats generally brought up when someone asks for good sources for components...
When it does come up people tend to rationalize it with comments about wait time and "support" ... these are switches and breakers we are talking about... if you need support (someone to explain to you what they are and how they work) you can get it here free! if its broken ebay sellers have always replaced it for me no questions asked as much as people try to play it up that its not the case.. I have had 2 bad experiences in over 1000 ebay purchases so I'm speaking from MY experience..

 

[HumulusHead]

Would I just mount my ssr and contactors and terminals to the inside of the enclosure? or is there a special board that people mount that stuff to? I have seen some CP's that have a brown looking board mounted to the back of the enclosure which appears to be the connection point for that stuff???

 

[augiedoggy]

Would I just mount my ssr and contactors and terminals to the inside of the enclosure? or is there a special board that people mount that stuff to? I have seen some CP's that have a brown looking board mounted to the back of the enclosure which appears to be the connection point for that stuff???

You could... is your box an electrical enclosure or repurposed box of some kind... Its not really needed but it can make things easier.. I mounted everything to the enclosure myself.

 

[HumulusHead]

You could... is your box an electrical enclosure or repurposed box of some kind... Its not really needed but it can make things easier.. I mounted everything to the enclosure myself.

its an electrical enclosure

what would one of those boards be called? i am having an impossible time trying to find a search term to use!

 

[iijakii]

its an electrical enclosure

what would one of those boards be called? i am having an impossible time trying to find a search term to use!

They're called backplates. They're basically just a metal plate. You can make your own and then put bolts through the bottom of the panel and use a nut to create some standoff distance.

 

[BlkWater_brewer]

You are kind of counterdicting yourself here... You state you would rather wait for shipping times vs pay a 35% markup at radioshack for aurduino stuff yet you state at the same time you would rather order your parts from ebrew or auberins ..

With arduino the prices are more than a couple of dollars than your little terminal strips and what not. I bought from Auberins for support pure and simple. When I first started with PID's i bought a Sestos and had an issue. The help responses I got here were, we all use Auberins and are not familiar with the Sestos. As for ebrew I order on Tues I have it on Friday, none of this weeks crap.

You should learn to chill....

 

[iijakii]

Most items from eBay I got in a week. The basic USPS international service is pretty quick, even from China.

But Augie, you do need to be OK with people ordering where they want. We get you're trying to let people know they can be cheap, but jeeeeeez.

Isn't everyone here a rich engineer, too? Well, besides me.

 

[augiedoggy]

You should learn to chill....

I did actually price out my control panel and what it would have cost to buy the cheapest alternatives from aubrins.... they didn't have some of the stuff like the 24v power supply, pwm speed controllers or the volt/amp that I have but even when including that stuff vs buying what they did have would have spent just over $350.00 MORE at auberins. No exaggeratation. Considering my control panel only cost me between $280 and 300 total that's a very large markup. And well over 100% considering I'm including my total build cost vs just what they actually had..

Certainly a lot more than the $8 or so markup RadioShack charges for an arduino uno and seeing how the terminal strips they had started at $2.50 a piece I'm not sure how much cheaper you could find them online... I paid $5 for mine at the home depot.
For the record I made an impulse buy before doing my homework too and have a celcius only Rex c100 sitting in a drawer with a j type thermocouple... it worked fine but I did not want to convert from celcuis... after that I started googling and checking the specs on my purchases... to me that wasn't a big deal and it was well worth the Money I saved. I understand why you went the route you did and I'm Just explaining why I didn't so others can make a better informed decision.

 

[HumulusHead]

They're called backplates. They're basically just a metal plate. You can make your own and then put bolts through the bottom of the panel and use a nut to create some standoff distance.

Now that I hear that word, it makes perfect sense! I'd be embarrassed for you to see my google search history of what I thought they were called bahaha

 

[augiedoggy]

Most items from eBay I got in a week. The basic USPS international service is pretty quick, even from China.

But Augie, you do need to be OK with people ordering where they want. We get you're trying to let people know they can be cheap, but jeeeeeez.

Isn't everyone here a rich engineer, too? Well, besides me.

I dont mind where people buy stuff as long as they are honest about it. I do mind when they try to skew things to rationalize to others to do the same... I was just trying to make it clear and known that aubers markup isnt the "couple of bucks" everyone keeps telling people it is... The numbers tell a completely different story. Its actually right about twice the price or more on everything they sell pertaining to homebrewing... If someone want to pay that for fast shipping and so they have someone tell them how to install it thats fine.

Blackwater was the one who had the issue with the OP buying a $3 terminal strip from radioshack because of the markup yet in the same post suggested buying from a place like auberins who charges much higher markups themselves. This seemed hypocritical and yeah I had an issue with what I see as incorrect information. and these incorrect perceptions get parroted all over the forum without anyone actually looking at what auber is selling and what they charge compared to others.. This is also the reason so many have an incorrect perception of everything sold on ebay... I honestly thing many people think ebay is a store and everything comes from the same seller.. people that dont read descriptions well or buy from someone with terrible feedback that are bitter about it turn around and slam ebay for it. Yet many people who get overcharged for stuff dont want to even entertain the notion of it, instead they often rather take comfort in getting others to do the same How is that right?

 

[HumulusHead]

I'm kinda excited for the brew day when I don't have to make a run to fleet farm or the grocery store or the gas station to get propane.

Tested out my immersion chiller in my new keggle. On my kettle the connections would sit above and outside of the kettle. Forgot they leaked a little bit. Now the connections will actually be inside the keggle. So I had to make a run to fleet farm to get some new more water tight connections.

Good thing I thought to check my propane right before I left. Probably wasn't enough left so I'm gonna get that filled too.

Electric is sounding awesome right now

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm kinda excited for the brew day when I don't have to make a run to fleet farm or the grocery store or the gas station to get propane.

Tested out my immersion chiller in my new keggle. On my kettle the connections would sit above and outside of the kettle. Forgot they leaked a little bit. Now the connections will actually be inside the keggle. So I had to make a run to fleet farm to get some new more water tight connections.

Good thing I thought to check my propane right before I left. Probably wasn't enough left so I'm gonna get that filled too.

Electric is sounding awesome right now

I'm planning on brewing a smoked ESB indoors this evening It is soo nice not to be freezing outside right now.

 

[HumulusHead]

On the upside it's 34 degrees out today. Super sunny. No wind. I would be brewing outside today with electric. Farking beautiful.

Hopefully I will upload a pic of my new keggle

 

[HumulusHead]

So I'm beginning to dry fit my control panel together. Seems my panel is gonna be pretty tight...

I can make everything fit, but I could save some space if I left out the bulky contactors. Could anyone tell me why I wouldn't want to not use the contactors?

To me they appear to be switches. Which also is what the SSRs appear to be. It's like it's double switched. But I'm prob missing something here.

Any opinions??

 

[stlbeer]

SSRs can fail in a stuck ON position. A contractor will allow you a way to turn off the current to the element while leaving the rest of the panel on.

 

[schematix]

I have a circuit breaker on each one of my elements. Chances are if the SSR fails stuck on, i'll notice it after a few minutes and brew day will end up being over. If it was salvagable, I could just turn that leg off.

 

[HumulusHead]

SSRs can fail in a stuck ON position. A contractor will allow you a way to turn off the current to the element while leaving the rest of the panel on.

Why not just use a selector switch after the SSR? So if SSR is on and you want power to element, turn switch to on. And if you don't want power to element but SSR is still on, just turn switch to off?

 

[Bobby_M]

That is fine if you can find another kind of switch that can handle the current. 30 amps is quite a bit and it would be best to kill both legs of the 240v so that is a double pole switch too.

 

[HumulusHead]

That is fine if you can find another kind of switch that can handle the current. 30 amps is quite a bit and it would be best to kill both legs of the 240v so that is a double pole switch too.

So contactor may be best then?

 

[pablosbrewing]

Or a double pole relay, I chose this one because it was a DIN rail mount and very compact:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221568038965

 

[augiedoggy]

Or a double pole relay, I chose this one because it was a DIN rail mount and very compact:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221568038965

I use 25A relays in my panel and used contactors in another I built... they are the same thing as far as I can understand. The contactor is just larger..

 

[TungstenBeer]

Or a double pole relay, I chose this one because it was a DIN rail mount and very compact:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221568038965

So that relay works OK? I've come across these before but passed over them because the load rating is at 277 VAC (which I believe is some sort of 3 phase).

 

[pablosbrewing]

So that relay works OK? I've come across these before but passed over them because the load rating is at 277 VAC (which I believe is some sort of 3 phase).

Yep - 30A @ 277VAC rating exceeds 30A @ 240VAC so they are fine

• I use the 240VAC coil version for the main contactor
  
• I use the 24VDC coil version for the element, so I can include float or flow switches in seriess with the coil to prevent dry firing