My brother got a DUI. I need advice from those with "experience"...

[Beer_me_plz]

Truth be told, OP, if you're serious about helping your brother out, I hope you're doing a lot more legwork than just asking for advice on a forum. Remember, on the internet, we're all "experts."

This is hands down the best thing I've heard so far. Ask locals with DUIs about the judges and typical first time DUI convictions. Don't be afraid to ask! That will be the best in site as to what to do. A lot of people have already been down that road and can give you the same advice a lawyer charges $3000 for.

 

[mattd2]

This was what my second attorney was going for. But first of all you have to afford one to get those "privileges" unfortunately a court appointed attorney is often time close acquaintances with the judge and that won't fly. Even my admit nothing, deny everything delay DELAY DELAY! lawyer didn't do anything but lighten up my bank account.

Suck it up. Pay the piper and don't do it again. It's his first one. I highly doubt jail time will be in his future.

It might be his first, but he blew 2.5x the legal limit. That will not be brushed off so lightly

Dude this isn't CSI Miami. He blew, he's guilty. Short of the machine not being calibrated properly there is very little a lawyer can do. Aside from the cop getting fired I guess...

Yes there is little to nothing that a lawyer can do to get him off, but there is a lot he can do to reduce the sentence.

 

[mattd2]

This is hands down the best thing I've heard so far. Ask locals with DUIs about the judges and typical first time DUI convictions. Don't be afraid to ask! That will be the best in site as to what to do. A lot of people have already been down that road and can give you the same advice a lawyer charges $3000 for.

But the lawyer will have all that information already (especially if he is a DUI lawyer and does this routinly) and will know what to do with it.
It will also be the correct info, not just some guy saying oh yeah judge XXXX is a hardass because he would let me off.
In a perfect world the judge should have no effect on the outcome. It should be based on what has happened in the past - thats is the basis of case law, that your conviction should be the same as the xxxx that were convicted before you for a similar offense. There is not point know what others got annedoctally unless you have the case file and can prove that you should be treated in a similar way - and that is what a lawyer will do.
If I was looking at a charge of DUI with 2.5x the legal limit I would be wanting someone with a bit of experience backing me.

 

[latium]

mattd2: I notice you're in NZ. There are some significant differences from the US in terms of the law. I've read, for example, that in a lot of Commonwealth countries, you do have the right not to speak if you're arrested, but remaining silent can make you look bad if you go to trial. In the US, that's not the case. Shutting the hell up is your best bet, as it won't be held against you in court, but anything you say "can and will be used against you."

Beer_me_plz: Asking others who've been through the system might give you a general idea of what to expect, but they're not going to know why their situations might or might not be relevant to yours. Lawyers are (usually) fairly expensive, but a good one can be invaluable.

Note that I'm not a lawyer, and I'm just offering my own observations, not legal advice. The most legal advice I'm willing to give is, "Talk to a lawyer." I mean, most of them offer free initial consultations, right? Talk to a few, get a feel for them, pick one who you think you can work well with. Better yet, ask around for recommendations, particularly among people you know, or contact your state's bar association for a referral

 

[shelly_belly]

A friend here got a 2nd DUI while visiting Colorado (first one was 28 years ago) and blew a .17. He plead guilty to Driving While Ability Impaired and got fined, 2 years probation, 9 months license suspension, 60 hours of community service, required to have an alcohol evaluation and treatment, Level 2 Classes and 2 years of vehicle interlock when license reinstated (waived for out of state resident). He spent about $7000. No lawyer.

 

[mattd2]

mattd2: I notice you're in NZ. There are some significant differences from the US in terms of the law. I've read, for example, that in a lot of Commonwealth countries, you do have the right not to speak if you're arrested, but remaining silent can make you look bad if you go to trial. In the US, that's not the case. Shutting the hell up is your best bet, as it won't be held against you in court, but anything you say "can and will be used against you."...

Yeah we went through that with me comming to terms with how everyone was saying that in the US you go to court without knowing your charges and then basically have to pleased not guilty so you can reveiw what they say you did. I am sure that even in the US that the way you conduct yourself after arrest will be taken into account when sentencing. If you cooperate with the police and not hold up the process just because it is your right, then I am sure that can and will be taken into account during sentencing. Which is the same as it is here in NZ, They can't sentnece you for more that the laws/regulations stipulate but being an ******* can sure give the police ammunition when shotting for the higher end of the sentencing scale.

 

[Beer_me_plz]

Maybe you ran into a ****ty situation, but this advice is terrible. It is one thing to give advice about brewing beer based on anecdotal evidence, but it is something far different to give legal advice based on anecdotal evidence.

Base it on whatever you want. I've already told him my experience and what I did. Jail time was never even and afterthought on either of my DUI convictions. Maybe Louisiana is more lax. But then again he is on a homebrew forum asking for legal advice. Hopefully he is smart enough to draw his own conclusions on what he should and shouldn't do without papa bear having to interject.

 

[mattd2]

A friend here got a 2nd DUI while visiting Colorado (first one was 28 years ago) and blew a .17. He plead guilty to Driving While Ability Impaired and got fined, 2 years probation, 9 months license suspension, 60 hours of community service, required to have an alcohol evaluation and treatment, Level 2 Classes and 2 years of vehicle interlock when license reinstated (waived for out of state resident). He spent about $7000. No lawyer.

So he spent $7000 on fines, penalties and classes(?)

What if he had a lawyer that costed $3000, and he got a reduced sentence of say $3000 fines and penalties and reduced other stuff.
Would that be worth it?

 

[iaefebs]

But the lawyer will have all that information already (especially if he is a DUI lawyer and does this routinly) and will know what to do with it.
It will also be the correct info, not just some guy saying oh yeah judge XXXX is a hardass because he would let me off.
In a perfect world the judge should have no effect on the outcome. It should be based on what has happened in the past - thats is the basis of case law, that your conviction should be the same as the xxxx that were convicted before you for a similar offense. There is not point know what others got annedoctally unless you have the case file and can prove that you should be treated in a similar way - and that is what a lawyer will do.
If I was looking at a charge of DUI with 2.5x the legal limit I would be wanting someone with a bit of experience backing me.

You do not need a attorney for the first court date to show up in court and make a "not guilty" plea. You can get the arrest info and the charges yourself. If you can't afford an attorney you will (in Michigan) be asked to fill out a short financial disclosure. If you qualify you will be assigned a attorney. If you need to hire an attorney some attorneys provide free consultation (1/2 to 3/4 hours) If you already have a copy of the arrest record and charges it eliminates wasted consultation time. From there you can visit several attorneys and pick one you are comfortable with. Just remember not to waste his/her free time giving feeble excuses, your attorney has heard it all before. Stick to the facts.

 

[Montanaandy]

Any one who enjoys drinking at the bar should move to Montana. DUI's only seem to become an issue if there is an injury/accident (which is fairly rare) and it is very common to see people being arrested for their 7th or 8th DUI (I kid you not). Most of the time it is just someone driving a few blocks home from the bar/casino, not doing anything crazy but their BAC is off the charts. It is a cultural thing in these parts - everyone goes to the bars/casino to meet up with friends, socialize and drink during the week/weekends. We actually have had state legislators who want to do away with DUI in the more rural areas because it is impacting the bars...

 

[mattd2]

You do not need a attorney for the first court date to show up in court and make a "not guilty" plea. You can get the arrest info and the charges yourself. If you can't afford an attorney you will (in Michigan) be asked to fill out a short financial disclosure. If you qualify you will be assigned a attorney. Some attorneys provide free consultation (1/2 to 3/4 hours) Already having a copy of the arrest record and charges eliminates wasted consultation time.

So to sum it up for Bigbeergeek, possible scenario:

Brother goes to first pretrial, recieves charges and pleads not guilty
Then while there apply for a court assigned attorney
Then take the information to a number of lawyers and get their opinions
Hopefully hear back about the court lawyer.
Discuss with the court lawyer the potential outcome and possible mitigating steps that he can take from now to the second pretrial - e.g. AA, also disclosed any information from other lawyers.
Sign up for AA, etc.
Lawyer to discuss plea bargaining with prosocutor - i.e. what prosecutor will be asking for at sentencing
Attended second pretrial and plead guilty
Attened sentencing and let the lawyer do the talking
Hopefully not get reemed to hard
Don't do it again

 

[Beer_me_plz]

It might be his first, but he blew 2.5x the legal limit. That will not be brushed off so lightly

Yes there is little to nothing that a lawyer can do to get him off, but there is a lot he can do to reduce the sentence.

Mattd2, I'm not trying to offend nor am I trying to instigate. But please inform me of what experience you have with either A: getting a DUI -OR- B: Being a lawyer. If you have experience with either of these it would further justify what you are saying and I may take it more seriously. So far all I can tell is your experience doesn't extend far beyond what you are currently researching on google.

I'm merely trying to provide advice from my own personal experience to a guy who CANNOT afford a lawyer. Now, if he wants to pull out a loan and pay twice as much for a slimy swindling DUI lawyer, than he should then by all means... Go for it. It may help it may not... We will never know. There are far to many contingencies to determine that. It comes down to his circumstance and what he can or is willing to do.

 

[shelly_belly]

So he spent $7000 on fines, penalties and classes(?)

What if he had a lawyer that costed $3000, and he got a reduced sentence of say $3000 fines and penalties and reduced other stuff.
Would that be worth it?

That was the reduced sentence! Some of the costs were not necessarily fines, such as bail, round trip travel to appear in court, pretrial required daily substance abuse testing, etc. The main thing he was going for was no jail time which would mean loss of job.

 

[iaefebs]

So to sum it up for Bigbeergeek, possible scenario:

Brother goes to first pretrial, recieves charges and pleads not guilty
Then while there apply for a court assigned attorney
Then take the information to a number of lawyers and get their opinions
Hopefully hear back about the court lawyer.
Discuss with the court lawyer the potential outcome and possible mitigating steps that he can take from now to the second pretrial - e.g. AA, also disclosed any information from other lawyers.
Sign up for AA, etc.
Lawyer to discuss plea bargaining with prosocutor - i.e. what prosecutor will be asking for at sentencing
Attended second pretrial and plead guilty
Attened sentencing and let the lawyer do the talking
Hopefully not get reemed to hard
Don't do it again

Again I can only reference Michigan, My son is going through this now. Once he pleads guilty he will take a test to determine his level of dependency on alcohol. It is a 90 question multiple choice test. From his answers he will get a probation officer that decides whether he needs counseling or whatever. His license will be suspended for a year but he can apply for a restricted license after 30 days. There are some fees and stuff that don't apply to the OP's brother so I won't list them here. *edit* since 1fast636 posted below. In MI any alcohol offense is lifetime. No expunges. If you get caught 40 years from now it is a second offense. I have no idea what it is in CA.

 

[1fast636]

depending on his insurance he could get dropped i know mine did when i got my DUI for hops cousin. it might of been for the controled substance because it gets held as blowing off the ricter scales of the breathalizer. now with me i did the counseling only had to do one session, ARD to espounge my record after five years with no other dui offenses, a ton in fines and paid a lawer that did nothing for me. It was my first offence no comunity service no blow start or anything else like that oh well live and learn

 

[Beer_me_plz]

NOT GUILTY! scenario #two: waits three months for pre trial and pleads not guilty. Waits three to six months for trial. DA is under pressure this month to crack down on DUIs, Has a bad day, PMSing, thinks your lawyer is an *******. For some reason she really hates your haircut and those stupid shoes you're wearing. Plus now the cop thinks you're an *******. You're on video slurring and you blew .2 plus she knows the judge really well. (BTW they all do). DA presents evidence to judge. Public Defender presents...well...nothing. But says please... He's a good boy!!! DA says aren't they all. Judge lays down the law. Not only do you have your fine. Now you've got court costs. And you've gotten no further than you had before pre trial. Plus the DA can recommend sentencing!! Trial is a scary place to be. I'd hope for sympathy from the judge in pre trial. Plus if you were nice to the police they take note of that.

 

[Montanaandy]

My brother spent 14 hours in the county drunk tank last night. He allegedly swerved, was pulled over by highway patrol, passed his field test and proceeded to blow something high (perhaps a 0.2? He can't remember). He's guilty, he messed up big time, he could have hurt himself or the innocent and he deserves whatever's coming to him. I hope that covers the requisite judgement etc.

Does anyone have any advice on what to do/expect? He's in CA. His funds are limited so no DUI lawyer. Who has experience with DUIs?

Thanks all!

As an attorney (not licensed in Cali and not familiar with Cali DUI law), I cannot offer you any practical advice - and frankly neither can anyone else on this board.

Find an attorney in Cali familiar with the DUI/OWI laws in California. I would personally find the best local DUI attorney and hire him - ask around. He can work up a payment plan with your brother. A good DUI attorney will work towards getting him a reduced sentence/fines. Generally money well spent...

 

[midfielder5]

Get a lawyer or at least talk to multiple ones that have a lot of experience defending DUI, not just a criminal lawyer who has handled a few. It is quite specialized.
A family friend of a friend got popped in Visalia too (must be something in the water that makes em stupid-- punch your brother hard for me). I heard she lost the privilege to drive for a very long time, like 2 or 3 years. I think to/from work is excepted but she has no job so it didn't come up. Plus community service (hundreds of hours or something), fines (thousands of dollars I believe) and will go to jail if she messes up-- it is just a suspended sentence. Public defender. I am not at all saying she could have done better, but it would be good to know your options.
edit: I am a CA civil litigation lawyer, ie I don't do criminal cases.

 

[iaefebs]

I always love the responses in HBT. Most forums you visit you get the "hire a electrician" or "hire a plumber" or "hire a lawyer" response. At least beer guys that are electricians or plumbers are willing to shed some help with electrical and plumbing questions.

 

[midfielder5]

Get him Lindsay Lohan's lawyer and he'll walk...

Cheers!

I had a case with her. Trippy to see opposing counsel on TV!!

 

[EPS]

Your brother has no chance of getting off on these charges if he blew. He will prob not goto jail on his first offense unless he has a criminal record. If he blew hiring a lawyer will just be a further waste of money at this juncture. He will most deff loose his license for say 6 months to a year every state is diff. DUIs are pretty open and shut usually for the state prosecutor they almost always win. The only chance you would have is if you know your drunk. Is to get out of the car say nothing but i want my lawyer.And not to blow or give a urine sample and just goto jail. But most people aren't thinking clearly when they know there drunk and think they can beat the road side test. And get caught stumbling around on camera. I won't even drive if i have 1 beer i have a kid and 2 much 2 lose.

 

[Mongrel]

He will most deff loose his license for say 6 months to a year every state is diff.

The only advice I have for this thread is not to take legal advice from a guy who doesn't know the difference between lose and loose.*

*EPS, sorry couldn't help myself

 

[highgravitybacon]

The amount of bad advice in this thread, outside of "get a lawyer" is staggering.

Yeah. And the epic fail starts with the "I'm asking for legal advice ON A BEER FORUM for my brother."

 

[Jwood]

A DUI lawyer can help. They know to check the calibration records on the breathalyzer (if it wasn't calibrated correctly, the charges can get dropped), cross examine police officers, pull out inconsistencies in the reports, etc. However, a good lawyer will only get you this (not even close to guaranteed) and you have to decide whether the extra few thousand dollar cost is worth the small probability. In CA, you can expect to pay around $10,000 overall after it is all said and done for your first offense. The loss of the license, required meetings and classes, court fees, etc.

IF you are correct about him blowing a 0.2, then he can face harsher punishments (extra alcohol education programs, probation, etc.).

Overall, it isn't great but he'll get through it. He should be very very thankful he didn't hit and hurt someone (felony) or injure himself and have to live with those options. Everyone makes mistakes, best you can do is support him through it.


If your brother can't afford an attorney, he will be assigned a public defender. Tell him to dress nice, suit and tie, be respectful, humble and refer to the judge only as "Your Honor"

 

[highgravitybacon]

Your brother has no chance of getting off on these charges if he blew. He will prob not goto jail on his first offense unless he has a criminal record. If he blew hiring a lawyer will just be a further waste of money at this juncture. He will most deff loose his license for say 6 months to a year every state is diff. DUIs are pretty open and shut usually for the state prosecutor they almost always win. The only chance you would have is if you know your drunk. Is to get out of the car say nothing but i want my lawyer.And not to blow or give a urine sample and just goto jail. But most people aren't thinking clearly when they know there drunk and think they can beat the road side test. And get caught stumbling around on camera. I won't even drive if i have 1 beer i have a kid and 2 much 2 lose.

This is also poor advice to go with the other advice. First, in more and more states you can be compelled to provide breath or blood by force if necessary. Second, if you refuse in most states you have a revoked license for usually one year. No work permit, no interlock, just a revoked license. Good luck finding a job unless its near a bus stop. You'll lose your license less, if at all, if you find a decent attorney.

They're not "open and shut" cases. DUI cases have a lot of holes that get missed. Most cops don't even want to deal with DUI because its so hard to cover all the bases.

 

[iaefebs]

The cops and court know all the calibration,atmospheric adjustment, cross exam stuff, inconsistency in report etc. They do this every day. These people are professional..You will not find a magic loop hole. Your attorney is going to discuss this over a lunch or in between cases with the prosecutor and decide your fate.The only hope (in Michigan) is if you can somehow prove it was an illegal stop..... good luck with that defense.

 

[EPS]

Good lord a home brew miss print. And trust me i know more about DUIs then most of these people. If he wants 2 hire a lawyer and waste 5000 bucks and spend a year wondering the outcome. Then by all means go ahead and hire a lawyer. Remember he asked for advice i just gave it what he does with it is his brothers choice. But i can promise you if he failed the road side test on camera and blew. He will never beat this case even if he had Johnny Cochran in his prime.

 

[mattd2]

Mattd2, I'm not trying to offend nor am I trying to instigate. But please inform me of what experience you have with either A: getting a DUI -OR- B: Being a lawyer. If you have experience with either of these it would further justify what you are saying and I may take it more seriously. So far all I can tell is your experience doesn't extend far beyond what you are currently researching on google.

I'm merely trying to provide advice from my own personal experience to a guy who CANNOT afford a lawyer. Now, if he wants to pull out a loan and pay twice as much for a slimy swindling DUI lawyer, than he should then by all means... Go for it. It may help it may not... We will never know. There are far to many contingencies to determine that. It comes down to his circumstance and what he can or is willing to do.

No offense taken, no googling though just looking at the CA DUI website post way at the start of this thread. I understand where you are coming from, a paid or court lawyer is not worth it if all they do is bow down to the judge/DA. But at least try and get some sort of legal advice so you don't walk into something you are not prepared for.
The worst possible case according to the website has been mentioned, if he is happy to accept that then there is no need for a lawyer and anything that is lower is a bonus

 

[EPS]

Yes you can be forced to give blood if an accident is involved. And i was just stating the only way one would have a chance to beat a DUI. And if you get arrested for a DUI in most states weather you beat it or not your license still gets suspended for 6months. So if you could beat it by refusing to blow or do road side test whats the extra 6month suspension compared to 3000-4000 bucks. In most states when you get arrested for a DUI that info goes straight to the DMV and they suspended your license weather your convicted or not. Yes refusal to blow is an automatic 1 year suspension. But i'm sorry i would never blow thats like getting caught standing over a dead body with a smoking gun in your hand. The ONLY chance you would ever have to get off a DUI in 99 percent of cases is to not blow period. If you blew your ship is already sunk.

 

[mattd2]

Yes you can be forced to give blood if an accident is involved. And i was just stating the only way one would have a chance to beat a DUI. And if you get arrested for a DUI in most states weather you beat it or not your license still gets suspended for 6months. So if you could beat it by refusing to blow or do road side test whats the extra 6month suspension compared to 3000-4000 bucks. In most states when you get arrested for a DUI that info goes straight to the DMV and they suspended your license weather your convicted or not. Yes refusal to blow is an automatic 1 year suspension. But i'm sorry i would never blow thats like getting caught standing over a dead body with a smoking gun in your hand. The ONLY chance you would ever have to get off a DUI in 99 percent of cases is to not blow period. If you blew your ship is already sunk.

What happened to inocent till provn guilty? Would that not take at least a guilty plea or a trial to take place first?
From what I read, refusal to give a chemical test in CA results in basically what you would get fot a DUI anyway.