My attempt at a 20 gallon, future-prrof system with stout tanks

[BadWolfBrewing]

I have the brewhardware element enclosure with 1.5 TC fittings. The ripple element fits in there just fine.

 

[bemerritt]

ok, one more question before I order. Should i do anything different with the thermowells? It seems as i would be monitoring the temperatures on the outputs rather than in the middle of the pots. Any thoughts?

 

[TNugent]

My plan is for the HLT and MLT the temp probes will be placed in a T fitting on the output from the kettle. Since I will essentially always be recirculating liquid in those 2 kettles this should give an accurate temp reading. For the BK I am just putting a fitting in the side of the kettle, since the object here is boiling of the liquid there should be enough movement of the liquid on it's own and less stratification that a temp probe just about anywhere should be accurate.

 

[bemerritt]

I have the brewhardware element enclosure with 1.5 TC fittings. The ripple element fits in there just fine.

What element are you using with it?

 

[bemerritt]

My plan is for the HLT and MLT the temp probes will be placed in a T fitting on the output from the kettle. Since I will essentially always be recirculating liquid in those 2 kettles this should give an accurate temp reading. For the BK I am just putting a fitting in the side of the kettle, since the object here is boiling of the liquid there should be enough movement of the liquid on it's own and less stratification that a temp probe just about anywhere should be accurate.

Just what i was thinking. I am going to have them remove the thermowells on all pots. And add a recirculation port on the BK in case i ever feel like doing BIAB or some sous vide cooking in it. Both of which are almost certain at some point. Thanks!

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

Camco ripple 5500 W. If I would do it again, it'd get a straight element for the hlt, easier to get in and out without taking out the herms coil. Not that I ever remove that one anyways though

 

[snackson]

I saw that dudes add on CL as well. Are you in the San Diego area? He wanted $160 to cut the top off a keg and do two welds. I told him that I will pass, cut them myself and dimple/solder for that price.

 

[bemerritt]

I saw that dudes add on CL as well. Are you in the San Diego area? He wanted $160 to cut the top off a keg and do two welds. I told him that I will pass, cut them myself and dimple/solder for that price.

Ya, I'm in San Clemente, close enough. I appreciate what he's trying to do, it just wasn't right for the direction I wanted to go in.

 

[bemerritt]

Ok, I think after several days of communication Stout and I are on the same page. The quote looks as follows. I figured I would show you all since sometimes some info isn't exactly on their sight. This is how it breaks down.

I was going to blur out the price, but I figured it would only be a matter of time until someone asked. So hopefully someone can use it when deciding if this is the way they would also like to go.

I'm going to hit that buy button in about an hour, so if you see anything that looks way off, let me know! This is only the 4th quote I have received from them, I'm sure they would like to do it one more time.

 

[bemerritt]

Just bought em! super stoked.

I have never had a kid, but i feel like these pots have a due date and I have so much to get done before then. haha. Time to start hounding ebay for some cheap tri clamp fittings. Hopefully santa helps out a little as well.

 

[CCBrewer]

Damn dude that is CRAZY....

Best of luck and congrats on getting a system that should be your last... unless you go pro HEHE

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Just bought em! super stoked.

I have never had a kid, but i feel like these pots have a due date and I have so much to get done before then. haha. Time to start hounding ebay for some cheap tri clamp fittings. Hopefully santa helps out a little as well.

Dayuuummmm!..........I would have thought that was Santa Claus right there!

 

[heckels]

Just bought em! super stoked. I have never had a kid, but i feel like these pots have a due date and I have so much to get done before then. haha. Time to start hounding ebay for some cheap tri clamp fittings. Hopefully santa helps out a little as well.

Plan on about $200 in shipping as well about 4 months down the road. If you're on the west coast it probably won't be as bad as it was for me ($250 to South Dakota).

 

[orangehero]

How about another recirculation port on the MT for sparge?

 

[bemerritt]

Plan on about $200 in shipping as well about 4 months down the road. If you're on the west coast it probably won't be as bad as it was for me ($250 to South Dakota).

Four months total? Or four months from purchase? I'm hoping for late April. And I'm just down the coast in California, so hopefully shipping won't be too bad.

 

[bemerritt]

How about another recirculation port on the MT for sparge?

I thought about it, but I will just unclamp the hose on the recirculating port and put on the spathe arm when the time comes. Much cheaper than a three way valve.

 

[heckels]

I ordered in early April and got the call in late July.

 

[rshortt]

This is awesome. I've been thinking about doing a Brutus 20 electric with a stout mash tun and bk (20 gal). I'll be following your build!

 

[bemerritt]

So, I have a couple of tri clamp questions. Hopefully someone has some insight.

All of the tri clamps on the pot are of the 1.5" variety(except for the element ports which I requested to be 2"). Now, even though a 1" will mate fine with a 1.5", it is considered bad practice and takes away from them being considered sanitized fittings. Is that statement correct?

The cost savings of going with 1" seems negligible, so I will probably stick to 1.5".

Next, ill be using the standard silicone tubing for this rig as that is what I currently use. But it seems silly to go down to the traditional 1/2" I'd tubing since the I'd of the tri clovers is so much larger. Thoughts?

Lastly, (for now) is there any benefit to using an instrument tee with a short thermocouple rather than a normal tee with a long one?

Thanks for the input!

 

[orangehero]

The fittings are not 1.5"...the outlets and recirculation ports are approximately 1", the whirlpool is around 3/4" and I believe the HERMS connects are even less. 1" and 1.5" TC fittings do share the same size ferrule, but the gaskets are different. You will have lots of dead space with 1.5" fittings as well as being more expensive (usually). The setup is not going to be sanitary in any case and there's plenty of mismatch elsewhere. The main benefit of triclovers is that they are easy to take apart and relatively easier to clean than other threaded fittings or quick disconnects. 1" is reasonable for homebrew setup, but even then it's bigger than optimal. The typical march homebrew pumps have 1/2" ports.

 

[bemerritt]

Ok. That's what I thought. 1.5 seemed massive. I got this email from them:

"Hi Brian,



Your latest revised order is below, please review it and confirm everything is correct.



Also, all of our standard TC ports are 1.5”.



Please let us know if you need anything else. Thanks!



Cheers,



Kristin

Stout Tanks and Kettles, LLC"

Just emailed back asking for more clarification.

 

[bemerritt]

Ok, looks like they are all 3/4" with an ID of .62". I'll be sticking with the 1/2" ID tubing for sure.

But I cannot find a 3/4" tee for the life of me. Any ideas? I'd rather not use a 1/2" tee.

 

[orangehero]

No, the tubes are not all the same size.

Their fittings are not standard but the ferrules are 1/1.5" TC (1.984" OD).

1/2" and 3/4" TC share a different, smaller sized ferrule.

 

[bemerritt]

Well I guess I am just confused now. Look at this fro their site for the bk:

20+ Gal. Brew Kettle with Tangential Inlet, Thermowell & Sight Glass

Combi Brew Kettle/Whirlpool
Tangential Inlet
Sight Glass with Tri Clamp Fittings
Thermowell with Thermometer
(2) Sanitary 3/4" ball valves (5/8" ID)
(2) Sanitary Hose Barbs – 1/2"
Tri Clamps and gaskets
Actual total capacity approx. 21.5 gal.

Those two 3/4" ball valves with a 5/8 ID seem pretty standard size to me. Hopefully I get an email from them tomorrow.

Edit: after re reading your post and looking at the spares on their website, they definitely seem custom. Can't decide how annoying that is quite yet. But I don't think I like it. How am I supposed to put in a properly sized tee with a thermocouple? I guess a 1" tee is close enough. Not too jazzed about the larger ID though.

 

[Double_D]

Well I guess I am just confused now. Look at this fro their site for the bk:

20+ Gal. Brew Kettle with Tangential Inlet, Thermowell & Sight Glass

Combi Brew Kettle/Whirlpool
Tangential Inlet
Sight Glass with Tri Clamp Fittings
Thermowell with Thermometer
(2) Sanitary 3/4" ball valves (5/8" ID)
(2) Sanitary Hose Barbs – 1/2"
Tri Clamps and gaskets
Actual total capacity approx. 21.5 gal.

Those two 3/4" ball valves with a 5/8 ID seem pretty standard size to me. Hopefully I get an email from them tomorrow.

Edit: after re reading your post and looking at the spares on their website, they definitely seem custom. Can't decide how annoying that is quite yet. But I don't think I like it. How am I supposed to put in a properly sized tee with a thermocouple? I guess a 1" tee is close enough. Not too jazzed about the larger ID though.

If I'm not misunderstanding your plan, you'd have to basically splice your T into the hoses on the "out" side of your vessels with TC barbs. I'm imagining you'll do something like Kal did but he used weldless fittings and three piece ball valves so he could just use a threaded nipple to attach his T. Check out the picture from his website below.

Since you have the welded TC fittings standard you'll have to make some sort of adapter either by using a 3 piece ball valve like his clamped to your vessel or by building TC hose barb adapters. Or you could just put thermocouples in your tanks like I did.

 

[bemerritt]

Yeah, the plan is one of these:

from brewers hardware (http://www.brewershardware.com/1-Tri-Clover-Clamp-Instrument-Tee.html)

and one of these:

from auber (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=267)

for the HLT and BK I will put it at the outlet. The MLT I am still deciding on. THe three choices are the outlet, outlet from the Herms or the inlet back to the MLT.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

Use outlet from the mlt, as that is the point most related to the temp you want to control

 

[bemerritt]

Use outlet from the mlt, as that is the point most related to the temp you want to control

Ya, the only problem is that then you are effectively heating it up more than that and will end up with less fermentable sugars. But The opposite can be said of adjusting temp based off of the herms exit. I'm still weighing the pros and cons. Curious what the temp difference really is. The good thing is, I have months to decide.

 

[processhead]

In my experience, using the outlet of the MLT for your RTD/TC results in a time lag that caused the actual mash temperature to run higher than the set point. This was confirmed with a separate temperature probe on my system.

This was also most noticeable when making temperature step changes.

The temperature of the mash is what you want to control, so I moved the RTD to monitor the top 2 " of the mash.

Now the mash temp stays at the set point temp with no overshoot or time lags.

 

[bemerritt]

In my experience, using the outlet of the MLT for your RTD/TC results in a time lag that caused the actual mash temperature to run higher than the set point. This was confirmed with a separate temperature probe on my system.

This was also most noticeable when making temperature step changes.

The temperature of the mash is what you want to control, so I moved the RTD to monitor the top 2 " of the mash.

Now the mash temp stays at the set point temp with no overshoot or time lags.

My thoughts exactly of why I want to monitor the temp of the recirculation at the MLT inlet.