My 2nd try at a Citra APA. Thoughts please

[olotti]

So I'm drinking my first HB, the Bee Cave haus PA, I used cascade @ 60 & 30min and Citra @ 20,10,5 and FO, no dry hop. The beer came in at 77 IBU's. I like the grain bill as it was just what I was looking for to make a drinkable summer APA, and while good I love the Citra, the bitterness is just a touch to much and its a tad thin on body so I thought about boosting the grain bill a little and dialing down the hop additions to balance the beer out more and this time using all Citra and making this a Citra PA recipe. Using Beersmith this is what I was thinking and would like some thoughts.

Grains: same as original recipe just upped the quantities ever so slightly.

9lbs 2 row
3lbs Vienna
8oz or .5lb C10L

Hops

.83oz Amarillo FWH
.47oz Citra 15min
.63oz Citra 10min
.83oz Citra 5min
1.5 oz Citra FO/steep

2.5oz Citra dry hop

SRM= 5.0
75% Est Eff.

Ferment with US-05, Was also thinking of US-04 to get a little more fruity flavor.

Yields 55 IBUS's for 5.5 Gal batch size and comes in at 1.060 OG and 1.015 FG for 5.9% abv. Gonna try Amarillo to bitter just for something different and I'm thinking the FWH will smooth it out even more so the Citra flavor and aroma additions will really stand out. Any thoughts on this recipe are greatly appreciated.

 

[TimBrewz]

Congrats on your burgeoning brewing obsession!
The Bee Cave PA is supposed to be 39 IBU, so sounds like you got double the IBU?
From Ed Wort's recipe:

Boil & Hops
1.0 oz Cascade 6.6% at 60 min.
0.5 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 30 min.
0.25 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 15 min.
0.25 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 5 min.

Your Citra must have been about double the AA% as the Cascade? You say it was thin? May be mash temperature?

Anyway, regarding your recipe, the hop bill looks solid though you may be still a bit heavy on the hops. When I am making a new recipe, I tend to make my first batch on the lower end of the bitterness range for a style, then if I want a bit more hop character in the finished beer, I will increase the dryhops. This does not add bitterness, but I find the perception is a hoppier beer, as aroma and taste are linked.

My experience with FWH has been variable, some beers have ended up much more bitter than I expected, while others seem to have the desired effect of more flavor and smoother bitterness. Generally FWH is a portion of the finishing hops.

If you are wanting a bit more malt backbone, make sure your mash temp is accurate at Ed Wort's 152f(maybe a bit higher?) and not below. Do yourself a favor (if you have not already) and make sure your thermometers are accurate, I have messed up too many beers over the years by missing mash temps due to poorly calibrated thermometers. Especially with hoppy beers, a few degrees change in mash temp can be the difference between a balanced beer and a too bitter beer.

Happy Brewing,
Tim

 

[olotti]

Congrats on your burgeoning brewing obsession!
The Bee Cave PA is supposed to be 39 IBU, so sounds like you got double the IBU?
From Ed Wort's recipe:

Boil & Hops
1.0 oz Cascade 6.6% at 60 min.
0.5 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 30 min.
0.25 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 15 min.
0.25 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 5 min.

Your Citra must have been about double the AA% as the Cascade? You say it was thin? May be mash temperature?

Anyway, regarding your recipe, the hop bill looks solid though you may be still a bit heavy on the hops. When I am making a new recipe, I tend to make my first batch on the lower end of the bitterness range for a style, then if I want a bit more hop character in the finished beer, I will increase the dryhops. This does not add bitterness, but I find the perception is a hoppier beer, as aroma and taste are linked.

My experience with FWH has been variable, some beers have ended up much more bitter than I expected, while others seem to have the desired effect of more flavor and smoother bitterness. Generally FWH is a portion of the finishing hops.

If you are wanting a bit more malt backbone, make sure your mash temp is accurate at Ed Wort's 152f(maybe a bit higher?) and not below. Do yourself a favor (if you have not already) and make sure your thermometers are accurate, I have messed up too many beers over the years by missing mash temps due to poorly calibrated thermometers. Especially with hoppy beers, a few degrees change in mash temp can be the difference between a balanced beer and a too bitter beer.

Happy Brewing,
Tim

Tim yes the Citra I have is AA 12.5% so almost double the cascade used in the original recipe and even the cascade I used was 7.6%. I didn't use any calculators on that first recipe, really just winged it so I'm trying to dial in a style now that I'm using Beersmith. I'm using the IBU range from some beers that I've had that I really like in the same style and they all seem to hover between 60-70 Ibu's so that's the number I am shooting for. In regards to the mash temp I hit the 152 so this time I may aim for 154 just to see what happens. Didn't really think about mash temp but I did a second APA that I just bottled and sampled and find it has just the right amount of body, mash temp was 156 shooting for 154 but missed high but still hmmm , so I'll shoot for 154 on this one.

 

[rmyurick]

Yeah, I think Cascade for bittering can be a little harsh, almost tannic. You might want to try some Amarillo in there--has a nice orangey/peachy flavor.

 

[olotti]

Yeah, I think Cascade for bittering can be a little harsh, almost tannic. You might want to try some Amarillo in there--has a nice orangey/peachy flavor.

That's it I notice yeah something just tannic and a little harsh cutting through the citra and it's prob using cascade as bittering at 60 and 30min. I was thinking of Amarillo and maybe I'll use that, I used Cenntenial in another APA and liked it but I like to try something a little different.

 

[strambo]

The recipe you posted looks good, it is technically an IPA though not an APA. I brew what I call an APA in borderline IPA territory.


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[RonPopeil]

Recipe looks good. Personally I would scratch the crystal 10. Citra is going to make you think of sweet flavors on it's own and you have a good bit in there. I doubt you'll be able to notice what the C10 is doing in this beer. Better off having the dryness you'll get by removing it.

 

[olotti]

The recipe you posted looks good, it is technically an IPA though not an APA. I brew what I call an APA in borderline IPA territory.


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Edited my post after putting some different #'s through Beersmith. Want to keep it a lower APA bitterness wise but stradling the line of a IPA. LMK what ya think

 

[olotti]

Recipe looks good. Personally I would scratch the crystal 10. Citra is going to make you think of sweet flavors on it's own and you have a good bit in there. I doubt you'll be able to notice what the C10 is doing in this beer. Better off having the dryness you'll get by removing it.

Edited my OP and reduced C10 to original amount. Shooting for a mash of 152-154 to keep it a little dry. What do ya think of the adjusted numbers.

 

[TimBrewz]

That now looks very good. The grain bill is solid, reducing the crystal to 5% or so is about right. The hops profile will work well, definite Citra blast. Amarillo as FWH is a good one. Use the S-05 it will do better with this beer IMO.

Cheers, Tim

 

[mrmop520]

You could consider adding a small portion of a piney/dank hop like columbus or simcoe to accentuate the citra. I've been drinking a citra and fruity hop (pacifica / pacific jade) APA alot recently and have been wishing there was just a touch of the dank hoppiness alongside it. Will be tasty regardless but something to consider!

 

[strambo]

Looks good now, brew as-is to see what a Citra fruity one is like. I started out this way also and have now started adding in a dank or piney hop as suggested above, but the a Citra is a good way to explore the hop and will be a good beer.


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