Munich Dunkel question

[AzOr]

Hello All
In the next couple of weeks I'll be brewing a Dunkel for the first time. I typically brew what I call Golden lagers. Just variations on pilsners w a touch more malt character. Lately I've made a few batches of Vienna lagers that I'm really enjoying, so I wanted to cross over into Dunkels.

My question is........If I attempt a decoction mash (first time), should I use straight Munich malt? I've come across quite a few recipes that are normal sparge techniques and they all call for specialty malts; melanoiden, victory, carafa etc. Is the use of these specialty malts just a substitute for decocting?

I brew on an Anvil Foundry and will use a gas burner for the decocting. I'm not totally sold on decocting, but it would be just something fun to try. If I'm short on time I'll skip that and brew normally.

 

[FromZwolle]

melanoiden is the cheater malt to skip decoction. victory should add that biscuit toasted bread flavor that is usually present in british pale malts. carafa adds that slight chocolate/fig/caramel note.

you'll do well with a little carafa, skip the others.

my preference is to use the darker munich, but for a dunkel it works best with some vienna malt to keep it balanced between malt forward and heavy/cloying.

 

[AzOr]

Great advice!
I’ll report back in a few weeks.

 

[kpsalerno]

I brewed Dunkel twice, once for a competition, and once more using some feedback I received from the judges.

My original recipe that scored 30/50 "Very Good"

5.5 gallons, 1.050 OG, 5.5% abv, 23 IBU (0.46 IBU/GP)

100% Schill Dark Munich Malt (9.3 lbs)
0.75 oz (17 IBU) German Perle 60 minutes
0.38 oz (4.2 IBU) German Perle 15 minutes
0.38 oz (1.7 IBU) German Perle 5 minutes

I mash at 146F for 30 minutes, then raise to 158F and hold for another 30 minutes.

My favorite lager yeast is 34/70 (Weihenstephan)

Fermented at 54F for 14 days, then gradually lowered the temperature by 2F per day for eight days until I reached 37F and held it there for three weeks before kegging. This schedule has worked well for me, the comments from the judges was that it was "nicely fermented" and "clean".

Their feedback however was it was a bit on the light side SRM wise for a Dunkel, so I could have either used a decoction mash or add a bit of chocolate malt which they thought might add some more complexity too.

The first batch was probably about 9 SRM, the color of the dark munich malt. For the second batch I followed Jamil's recipe and used 3% chocolate malt and lowered the dark munich to 97%, keeping everything else the same. The result was an SRM of 20, and far too much chocolately depth and complexity for me, and not really anything like a Hofbrau Dunkel for example (my first attempt felt closer to a clean Dunkel flavor, Jamil's was almost like a German Porter if you can imagine that).

So for a third attempt I plan to lower the chocolate malt to 0.7% (1.1 oz) and raise the dark munich to 99.3% (9.23 lbs) This will result in an SRM of 14, which should be about right for some complexity and color closer to say a Hofbrau Dunkel, but not overwhelming the munich malt flavor with too much complexity and dark chocolate flavors like my last batch.

You can substitute any noble hops for the recipe, I just happen to like the flavor and aroma of Perle in my lagers. Hofbrau uses Magnum.

 

[camonick]

Hello All
In the next couple of weeks I'll be brewing a Dunkel for the first time. I typically brew what I call Golden lagers. Just variations on pilsners w a touch more malt character. Lately I've made a few batches of Vienna lagers that I'm really enjoying, so I wanted to cross over into Dunkels.

My question is........If I attempt a decoction mash (first time), should I use straight Munich malt? I've come across quite a few recipes that are normal sparge techniques and they all call for specialty malts; melanoiden, victory, carafa etc. Is the use of these specialty malts just a substitute for decocting?

I brew on an Anvil Foundry and will use a gas burner for the decocting. I'm not totally sold on decocting, but it would be just something fun to try. If I'm short on time I'll skip that and brew normally.

I have a Dunkel that I brew regularly. I cheat and use Melanoiden. The rest of the grains are mostly Munich, some Pilsner and a little Carafa I for the color. Tettnang hops.

 

[Steveruch]

I did a Dunkel a few months ago that came out pretty good.
Pilsner dme, munich malt, marris otter, and caraffa II.

 

[kpsalerno]

Pictures attached of my first brew that they deemed too light, and my second attempt following their advice to add chocolate malt that came out too dark and outrageously foamy

 

[Twinkeelfool]

Love the second one!

 

[AzOr]

Both look delicious!

 

[kpsalerno]

Love the second one!

Thank you. I feel better about it now actually, not that I dislike this batch, but was just disappointed how much dark chocolate flavors it has with only 3% chocolate malt.

 

[Twinkeelfool]

Thank you. I feel better about it now actually, not that I dislike this batch, but was just disappointed how much dark chocolate flavors it has with only 3% chocolate malt.

Call it a schwarzbier!

 

[Chorgey]

May the Schwarz be with you!

 

[MicroMickey]

Keep in mind that there are lots of roasted malts out there. Weyermann offers their Carafa in I, II, and III versions; @ 335, 430, and 525 SRM respectively. It might take a few tried to get the beer where you want it but once you've got the flavor right, you can add other darker roasts in judicious quantities to adjust the color.

 

[franknbeans]

and my second attempt following their advice to add chocolate malt that came out too dark and outrageously foamyView attachment 728128

that looks delicious.. I need this in my life

 

[cmac62]

I'd use some midnight wheat, you get just enough of the roast character without going overboard and you can use less that .5 lbs.

 

[kpsalerno]

that looks delicious.. I need this in my life

You know I have to say having sat in the keg for a week, the flavors have really blended beautifully together now and I'm rather enjoying both the aroma and flavor... Maybe Jamil had a point with 3% chocolate malt.

 

[Twinkeelfool]

Your pic inspired me to do a schwarz ish lager. Mashing in now. Pils, no crystal malt, and pale choc, black, and brown malt in descending amounts ( 5% pale,2.5% black,1.5% brown), all in at mashout. I like dry beers and I have just pitched a coors like rice lager on some German lager X, I’ll put this on the yeast cake!

 

[bkboiler]

Pictures attached of my first brew that they deemed too light, and my second attempt following their advice to add chocolate malt that came out too dark and outrageously foamyView attachment 728127View attachment 728128

I have had dunkel in munich at HB, and your second one isn't too far off!
Just read your other post about having brewed Jamil's recipe. I've brewed it too, and actually preferred it over the dunkel I had in munich (I couldn't believe it myself...I've brewed a lot of bad beer in my past--and present)!

 

[mtom1991]

Thank you. I feel better about it now actually, not that I dislike this batch, but was just disappointed how much dark chocolate flavors it has with only 3% chocolate malt.

I have brewed a Dunkel recently and i used Weyermann Chocolate Wheat rather than Chocolate Malt.

I used just under 4% and it came out alright

 

[jdauria]

Have a Dunkel on tap now that I brewed last December and then lagered for a few months. Went with:
79% Barke Munich
15% Barke Pils
5% Caramunich II
1% Carafa Special II

It's pretty good, but not exactly what I wanted, it's slightly sweeter than I wanted and could use more breadcrust aroma. If I judging it, would probably give it a 31.

 

[Bramling Cross]

I'd use some midnight wheat, you get just enough of the roast character without going overboard and you can use less that .5 lbs.

It's amazingly useful stuff when you want to have your base malt(s) front and center.

 

[cmac62]

It's amazingly useful stuff when you want to have your base malt(s) front and center.

I use it all the time when I want some color, but minimal flavor contributions. Plus, it is what I always have on hand.