Munich Dunkel Lager

[delcosansgluten]

Hey everyone - hope you've all been well. Up next for me is the Munich Dunkel Lager found in this recipe - Munich Dunkel Lager

Has anyone brewed this? I'd like the color to look like a traditional Dunkel but I too am concerned about the beer tasting chocolaty if I add the amount of Choc Millet they suggest. If I were to use 5.25oz chocolate millet, what could i substitute to add color and make up for the additional 5.25 oz of choc millet I'd be omitting?

 

[videojunkie1208]

Dark rice malt?

 

[Silly Yak]

Here's the BCJP aroma profile: Aroma: Rich, Munich malt sweetness, like bread crusts (and sometimes toast.) Hints of chocolate, nuts, caramel, and/or toffee are also acceptable.

I'd say try caramel 120L millet as the description really matches this beer profile at least per GFHB and BJCP are concerned. Maybe even try a bit of caramillet. Mmm thinking about this is making me thirsty.

 

[videojunkie1208]

What enzymes are you planning on using, as with Ceremix and Ondea, you might want to recalculate the grain bill due to the increased efficiency.

 

[skleice]

For the bread crusty notes = biscuit rice 15l and 18l are awesome.

For light chocolate, I would go either James Brown rice or the Caramel 120l mentioned above.

 

[TheMadKing]

Edit. I missed that this was gluten free, I apologize. Carry on!

 

[videojunkie1208]

Edit. I missed that this was gluten free, I apologize. Carry on!

Welcome to the crazy, wild frontier of mad scientist brewing!

 

[videojunkie1208]

Based on 75% efficiency, and using Ceremix and Ondea, you could expect to get an OG around 1.060 and an ABV closer to 6.5% rather than the more tame 5.5% that the recipe calls for.

Looks like if you wanted to use Caramel 120L and James Brown, you could modify the grain bill to an even 12lbs of Munich, and then 1/3lb each of both Caramel 120L and James Brown would put you right at 16.6 SRM and an OG around 1.053 (assuming 75% efficiency).

Good luck!

 

[delcosansgluten]

Appreciate the support everyone!

What enzymes are you planning on using, as with Ceremix and Ondea, you might want to recalculate the grain bill due to the increased efficiency.

I have Termamyl, SEBAmyl & Ondea. Should I not use all three?

 

[skleice]

Appreciate the support everyone!


I have Termamyl, SEBAmyl & Ondea. Should I not use all three?

All 3 is great!
Termamyl will liquefy the starches.
Ondea will create a more desirable wort profile.
Sebamyl L will help with fermentability.

Add Termamyl (1ml/lb) at 170-180°
Add Ondea (1ml/lb) and Sebamyl (.25ml/lb) after dropping to 145°.

 

[delcosansgluten]

All 3 is great!
Termamyl will liquefy the starches.
Ondea will create a more desirable wort profile.
Sebamyl L will help with fermentability.

Add Termamyl (1ml/lb) at 170-180°
Add Ondea (1ml/lb) and Sebamyl (.25ml/lb) after dropping to 145°.

Thanks Skleice - hope you've been well! I plan on doing a 3 hr mash, do you think that's overkill?

 

[skleice]

Thanks Skleice - hope you've been well! I plan on doing a 3 hr mash, do you think that's overkill?

Tx, you too!

I don't do the falling step mash anymore, but I think I used to do 30 min at 170-180° and then 90 min at 145°. Best way to know is check gravity or do a starch test.

 

[delcosansgluten]

So it turned out that I only had Amalyze, SEBAmil and SEBAmil L. I used them as advised on the package and followed Skleice's mash guidance. I ended up mashing for 2 hours and hit an OG of 1.057.

Here are some pic of the grain crush and brew day. Notice the two bags I temporarily store crushed grains in, it helps me manage the physical toll brewing takes on me by spreading it across two days.

 

[delcosansgluten]

Oh and my grainbill ended up as follows

Munich Millet - 92% (6,015 grams)
Biscuit Rice - 3% (224 grams)
Chocolate Millet - 2.27% (147 grams)
James Brown Rice - 0.65% (42 grams)

The grainbag on the right shows how dominant the Munich Millet is in this one. I do not have a refrigerator so this one is fermenting in my basement which says around 58 - 60 degrees Fahrenheit from now until the end of March. Hopefully I can get another lager in before Spring.

 

[delcosansgluten]

Bottled on Saturday. Ended up with 42 lagers. For some reason, even after a 3 week fermentation in primary, I only achieved a FG of 1.03. So 3.5% beers for me, not the end of the world, but the fermentation temps were more or less perfect per the yeast instructions. Not sure what the solution is, maybe just wait longer?

 

[glutarded-chris]

Was it cloudy when it went into the bottles?
If so, it may not be finished. Just to be safe, I would store them in a way that they are contained if they blow their tops. What yeast did you use?

 

[skleice]

Weird that it did t ferment out, especially with SEBAmyl L. Did you add the sebamyl L after you got down to 145°? Or any way the mash was too hot and the SEBAmyl denatured?

 

[delcosansgluten]

Weird that it did t ferment out, especially with SEBAmyl L. Did you add the sebamyl L after you got down to 145°? Or any way the mash was too hot and the SEBAmyl denatured?

Hey Skleice - been really busy and just realized this thread went ghost. I honestly forget, I am not sure. I need to get better at documenting the process and temps, etc.

Beer did turn out delicious though, especially after the 2 month wait in the bottle. Will certainly brew it again.

 

[delcosansgluten]

Better late then neverm here are some pics of the finished Dunkel Lager. Goodness it was delicious.

 

[delcosansgluten]

Had a fun time yesterday with some new gear. I need lagers year round and now I have a chest freezer that can give me just that. Im going to let it primary for a month in the fermonster and then will put the bottles back into the freezer for a final 2 month lagering period.

10 lbs Munich Millet
5 lbs Pale Rice Malt
0.5 lbs Caramel Millet 90L
0.5 lbs Caramel Millet 120L
1 oz Hallertau Pellets
2 saccheets 34/70

 

[glutarded-chris]

very nice!
The inkbird screen makes no sense to me ... 5.7 degrees F? Looks like the screen was in the process of updating.

 

[delcosansgluten]

very nice!
The inkbird screen makes no sense to me ... 5.7 degrees F? Looks like the screen was in the process of updating.

Yeah, I am honestly not thrilled with the Inkbird so far. The iOS app doesnt even work lol. Hopefully over time ill get better with it, having a chest freezer is bomb and well worth it.

 

[delcosansgluten]

The tilt hydrometer is a really impressive tool. my temps have ranged from 52 - 57 for the past two weeks. I plan on leaving this ferment another two weeks and then will bottle. Does anyone think I need to do a diacetyl rest? If so, any suggested temps?

 

[glutarded-chris]

If you are going to lager for a long (proper) period, then my guess is that you don't need it. If you want it to go quicker then going up to mid to upper 60's for a few days should do the trick from what I have read. I use Saflager W34/70 and ferment in the low to mid 60's so I never worry about it. You could post in the Fermentation and Yeast section, but my guess is you will get strong advice on both sides

 

[Silly Yak]

You want to do a diacytl rest at the tail end of fermentation and take it to around 66F for a couple of days. After that I would bottle and "lager" for as long as you can resist cracking them open at mid 30's. As mentioned above many people warm ferment lagers and especially W34/70 so you could also just skip it and see what the end product tastes like.

 

[delcosansgluten]

One month ago I opened the first of these Munich Dunkel Lagers and was really disappointed. The beer tasted like sour apples with a crisp lager finish and I was at a loss on what happened. For my friends who tried these, I called them Philly Sour Lagers and they were none the wiser but it still bothered me the beer tasted like tart apples.

Now that I have 18 left, the green apple flavor is completely gone and these taste incredibly delicious and are absolutely what i wanted in my Dunkel Lager. The taste is malty with subtle caramel and chocolate notes and a crisp clean finish. Would absolutely recommend brewing this one but it does take time to age.

 

[Craiginthecorn]

Weyermann makes an concentrated extract of its Carafa crystal malt called Sinamar which is gluten-free and used mostly for color. Occasionally you will find it in homebrew-size containers. My LHBS repackages it. I have used it successfully in a Dunkel. Williams Brewing seems to carry 4 oz containers.

https://bsgcraftbrewing.com/weyermann-lme-sinamar-25-kg/

 

[glutarded-chris]

If it is made to the Reinheitsgebot then it was made from barley and is gluten reduced and not strictly gulten free. This is product may have dramatically reduced gluten protens but certainly has not eliminated them. If you want truly gluten free, don't use any ingredients that contain gluten.

 

[Craiginthecorn]

If it is made to the Reinheitsgebot then it was made from barley and is gluten reduced and not strictly gulten free. This is product may have dramatically reduced gluten protens but certainly has not eliminated them. If you want truly gluten free, don't use any ingredients that contain gluten.

Per the link provided, Weyermann declares it to be Gluten Free. Given the level of regulation in Germany, I have to believe it is correct.

 

[glutarded-chris]

Actually, they are allowed to call something gluten free if it passes the test criteria which is something like 20ppm gluten protein test detection. In the US, most producers have moved to gluten reduced if it is, and gluten free if it has no original gluten containing ingredients. In this case Germany has failed their people, which is uncharacteristic I agree. I have spent a lot of time in Germany as that is where my family is from and where my employer is. I admire their cultural acceptance of science and technology and many other things, but they are not perfect and in this case have failed. If you are gluten free as a lifestyle choice, go for it. If you are celiac beware! Products like Clerity-Ferm break down enough of the gluten proteins to pass the test, but does not eliminate them completely and there is some debate as to whether the fragmented molecules can still trigger the autoimmune response.

Celiac is not an allergic reaction, it is more like an injury. If you have a peanut allergy and you are exposed, you get an immediate reaction. Potentially not so with celiac. One exposure injury and you may not notice the symptoms. It may take several to accumulate enough damage is to get a response. After that you have to heal to get back to normal. You don't get sick, you get injured. Stay away from any ingredients that contain gluten if you even think you are celiac!
Zero Tolerance Gluten Free Homebrew Club

 

[Craiginthecorn]

Great info on the German laws. I can certainly understand how some may find it best to adopt a zero tolerance rule for gluten. I find it interesting that there is a non-governmental organization devoted to Celiac disease that is responsible for awarding the Gluten Free designation in Germany. They too accept less than 20ppm as gluten-free.

For those who are willing to accept very low levels of gluten, the Sinamar is very concentrated, so you likely won't use much and when diluted into your beer, the ppm will be extremely low. 1 oz in 20L adds 5 SRM.

Here's what I found regarding German regulations. It confirms the previously shared information.

"Use of the gluten-free symbol

The gluten-free symbol (crossed grain symbol) is recognised throughout Europe and is awarded according to the standard of the Association of European Coeliac Societies (AOECS). In Germany, the German Coeliac Society (DZG) is responsible for awarding the symbol. In order to be allowed to use the gluten-free symbol on food packaging, promotional materials or the company website, it is necessary to conclude a license agreement with the DZG. This requires a successfully completed AOECS audit by an independent certification body and analytical proof that the product in question does not exceed a gluten content of 20 mg/kg. The required maximum content is therefore in line with European legislation. The symbol may not be used for unprocessed products such as milk, eggs, fruit, vegetables, raw meat and fish."