Motorizing MM3--Options? How about these?

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mongoose33

mongoose33

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EDITED TO ADD: I ended up choosing option A, the All American Aleworks motor. Won't be buying much more equipment for a while. Thank you all for the information and suggestions!

***************

First, I do not want to use a drill.

Second, there are several options for motorizing a MM3 mill. Here are three:

A: The most expensive option, from All-American Ale Works. Beast of a motor, Morrey has it on his, but with shipping the cost is nearly $300: https://www.allamericanaleworks.com/shop/grain-mill-motor-shaft-couplers-package/

B: A motor from Williams Brewing, an interesting kit and cheaper by nearly $100. Not 100 percent clear how I'd connect it to the 1/2" shaft on my MM3. But an interesting choice nonetheless: https://www.williamsbrewing.com/DOUBLE-ROLLER-GRAIN-MILL-MOTORIZING-KIT-P4176.aspx

C: The least expensive option from MoreBeer; at only $179.99 including shipping, far under A and still cheaper than B, but also a concern about connecting it to the 1/2" shaft on my MM3. https://www.morebeer.com/products/malt-muncher-grain-mill-high-torque-motor.html

Some of these indicate the need to connect w/ a 12mm drive shaft on the mill, which is just under 1/2". Are they considered equivalent or are they truly not interchangeable?

Does anyone have experience with either B or C? How have they lasted? Can they be connected to a 1/2" shaft on the mill? Any other comments on them I should be aware of? Or other considerations, other motor options, etc.?

Thank you in advance!
 
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All three options are very similar, an AC motor with a direct-drive gearbox. In all three cases you use the pair of "spiders" to connect the shaft of the motor with the shaft of the mill, using the rubber bushing sandwiched in the middle. Those LoveJoy couplings are very common, if the one supplied with the motor does not fit your mill shaft, the guys at your local Grainger can get you fixed up for a few bucks.


I have no idea if the turning resistance on a 3-roll mill is higher than a 2-roll, but I suspect not dramatically. If you were interested in a lower cost solution I have been pretty happy with my power car seat motor project, and all in it cost me less than $50. The details are spread in this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=6678542&postcount=81
 
BeardedBrews said:
I have been pretty happy with my power car seat motor project, and all in it cost me less than $50. The details are spread in this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=6678542&postcount=81
Click to expand...

Why didn't I seen that thread earlier?! I even live right by American Science & Surplus' brick and mortar store!

Ah well, I got a pair of these off ebay, but maybe I'll add a motor to my old barley crusher before I sell it.
https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/worm-drive-motor-12v-24v-200w-180-rpm-20nm-torque.html
 
I know ya want an opinion on B or C, but I'll make a case for the AAW motor. It is expensive, but it's an easy direct hook up. no searching for other parts to make it work. It is also runs at an ideal RPM. I use it with a MM3 with 2'' rollers and it just chews through grain.
 
mongoose33 said:
Some of these indicate the need to connect w/ a 12mm drive shaft on the mill, which is just under 1/2". Are they considered equivalent or are they truly not interchangeable?

Does anyone have experience with either B or C? How have they lasted? Can they be connected to a 1/2" shaft on the mill? Any other comments on them I should be aware of? Or other considerations, other motor options, etc.?
Click to expand...
I don't have have experience with any of these, but will voice an opinion and some advice. First, in general, a 12mm coupler probably wouldn't fit on a 1/2" round shaft, but the shaft on the MM3 (assumed, based on my MM2's 1/2" shaft) has 3 flats on it, so a 12mm size may fit. But if it doesn't, as BeardedBrews said, you'll be able to buy a 1/2" bore coupler if necessary.

Next, I think most people here on HBT have used motors much larger than absolutely necesary for homebrew use. The AAW is a 1/2 HP gearmotor with a 10:1 reducer. It will definitely do the job, but it's a behemoth at ~35lb, and it is by no means the be-all end-all Cadillac for milling. It's a Chinese mill that you have the benefit of buying from someone who imports and does the dirty work acting as a middleman; there's certainly some value in that. The Williams B motor is only 90 Watts, or ~1/8 HP, a paltry 1/4 the rating of the AAW. I expect the Morebeer motor is the same, but they provide absolutely no useful info about theirs. Morebeer is a great homebrew supplier, so if I were seriously considering this option, I'd email and request more info. What you might find with these motors is that you have to fill the hoppers after the motor is running. It's only the startup with grain possibly jamming the mill that high torque (and high HP) is needed. They're both obviously selling these motors, and a lot of people seem happy with them, so I wouldn't go so far as to say that they're too underpowered to be reliable.

BeardedBrews said:
All three options are very similar, an AC motor with a direct-drive gearbox. In all three cases you use the pair of "spiders" to connect the shaft of the motor with the shaft of the mill, using the rubber bushing sandwiched in the middle. Those LoveJoy couplings are very common, if the one supplied with the motor does not fit your mill shaft, the guys at your local Grainger can get you fixed up for a few bucks.

I have no idea if the turning resistance on a 3-roll mill is higher than a 2-roll, but I suspect not dramatically. If you were interested in a lower cost solution I have been pretty happy with my power car seat motor project, and all in it cost me less than $50. The details are spread in this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=6678542&postcount=81
Click to expand...
Good general info from BeardedBrews. I doubt that the turning resistance (torque requirements) on a 3-roll mill is higher than a 2-roll. I'm glad to hear that little car seat motor is working for him. That thread is what 1st got me thinking about motorizing my mill, and I bought one of those motors. I think it may be able to deliver the starting torque, especially since it's DC drive and can be operated at variable speed, but I was and remain skeptical that it can operate continuously for a few minutes without overheating. A car seat can generate the torque to move a heavy load in a seat (geared down much further), but it runs for only a few seconds. It's certainly worth following up further with BeardedBrews and that thread. That relatively tiny motor is a lot easier to deal with than a 35 lb AAW one.

RoadKing said:
I know ya want an opinion on B or C, but I'll make a case for the AAW motor. It is expensive, but it's an easy direct hook up. no searching for other parts to make it work. It is also runs at an ideal RPM. I use it with a MM3 with 2'' rollers and it just chews through grain.
Click to expand...
Regardless of how you go, you're likely to want the ability to switch it on and off and to reverse the direction, so there are still a few other parts to make it work optimally.

I made the decision to go with a DC motor for reasons I won't go into in detail, but primarily because it can be variable speed, essentially alleviating the starting torque concerns, thereby allowing me to get by with a smaller, lower (than AAW, 1/4) HP motor. It requires a little more electrical work though, so there is a tradeoff. I offered a lot of feedback, as did others in this current MM2, 3 - Losing set? Cranken? thread.
 
cbier60 said:
Good general info from BeardedBrews. I doubt that the turning resistance (torque requirements) on a 3-roll mill is higher than a 2-roll. I'm glad to hear that little car seat motor is working for him. That thread is what 1st got me thinking about motorizing my mill, and I bought one of those motors. I think it may be able to deliver the starting torque, especially since it's DC drive and can be operated at variable speed, but I was and remain skeptical that it can operate continuously for a few minutes without overheating. A car seat can generate the torque to move a heavy load in a seat (geared down much further), but it runs for only a few seconds. It's certainly worth following up further with BeardedBrews and that thread. That relatively tiny motor is a lot easier to deal with than a 35 lb AAW one.
Click to expand...

Price and Simplicity pushed me into the motor and I agree that it has some limitations. I have put 26lb through in a continuous run which generated heat but did not have any notable slowdowns. I have also pre loaded the hopper with 6-7lb and had no trouble starting up at 13v.

I hadn't considered the variable speed benefit but I could see where that might be handy. Same with reversing although that tends to dump some uncrushed gain when I do it.

In the end it was a permanent and affordable option for me, even if it was not strictly cheaper than Harbor Freight.
 
Mongoose33 asked and I shared that I built my MM3 with an AAAW 180 rpm motor. Before deciding, I canvased a variety of opinions and added up the responses that AAAW came back at least 2 to 1 over other options including DIY efforts. Price was highest but owner satisfaction was high proportionately.

Some folks like pulleys, some don't and I liked the streamlined direct drive of the built in gear reducer. My motor is stepped down 10:1, drives at 180 rpm and honestly feel it could grind rocks. Back in my days of running mills with a hand drill, I used reverse all the time to clear the rollers after stalling. Thusly I felt I needed to add a reverse function to the AAAW build....and I did with a DP/DT switch. In all the times I have used the AAAW/MM3 mill, I have never once needed nor used reverse. I fill the hopper to the top, flip the lever and it is a steady grind until done. BUT...I have reverse should I ever need it!

A concern to me with the More Beer motor is the weight. They say shipping weight is 12 lbs, while the shipping weight of the AAW is closer to 50 lbs. If the More Beer motor ends up being 10 lbs, I have got to question the difference in weight. Does this weight difference equal lower quality in the end? I cant answer that, but if weight even remotely equals quality or durability, I would want opinions from previous owners. If corners were cut to bring the motor to a price point that will sell more motors, I'd want to know which corners were compromised.
 
Morrey said:
Did you have to shim up the mill or motor base to make the drive shafts align?
Click to expand...
I can't answer for The_Bishop, but you're almost certainly guaranteed to have to shim one or the other. The alignment needs to be pretty precise unless you want to wear out your mill bearings/bushings or motor, so you'd have to be pretty lucky to have them align without any adjustment. I had to lift my mill by inches to get mine right (with a MM2 and different motor).
 
cbier60 said:
I can't answer for The_Bishop, but you're almost certainly guaranteed to have to shim one or the other. The alignment needs to be pretty precise unless you want to wear out your mill bearings/bushings or motor, so you'd have to be pretty lucky to have them align without any adjustment. I had to lift my mill by inches to get mine right (with a MM2 and different motor).
Click to expand...

Same here with my motor and MM3 mill. Using a walnut blank to lift the mill, I ran the blank thru a planer and shaved off tiny amounts at a time until I had the drive shafts aligned perfectly. Lovejoy couplers allows a small angle of misalignment, but I came right down as close to zero misalignment as I could.
 
I personally found a great (explosion proof) 56c frame motor on, and a 10:1 reducer for a 56c frame motor, on ebay for about $70 shipped. Two lovejoy couplers for the 5/8' shaft of the gear reducer, and a 15/32" for the Kegco 3 roller mill shaft for $12. So for less than $85 I have a torque monster of a setup to rival the power of the AAW-- and my motor and reducer were also made in the USA.

I do not know why more people do not go this route. Be patient and and you can easily do the same as I did for the same cost or even less.

A link to a quick overview of how it all came together...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7968336&postcount=797
 
I followed the below build but used a love joy connection to the 1.5” pvc bushing. It requires some diy and engineering, but that’s half the fun. PS, I’m an engineer.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/cheap-diy-option-for-a-motorized-grain-mill.html

Battery operated but could use a power supply with probably 10+ amps. Plywood base is cut barely wider than a 5 gallon bucket to seat and be stable while in use. The white brackets are leftovers from hanging blinds. Wiring is from an old extension cord. Best thing is that it’s highly mobile and not bulky at all. Brew days here and abroad won’t be an issue for having freshly milled grain.

View attachment 420643
 
cyberbackpacker said:
I personally found a great (explosion proof) 56c frame motor on, and a 10:1 reducer for a 56c frame motor, on ebay for about $70 shipped. Two lovejoy couplers for the 5/8' shaft of the gear reducer, and a 15/32" for the Kegco 3 roller mill shaft for $12. So for less than $85 I have a torque monster of a setup to rival the power of the AAW-- and my motor and reducer were also made in the USA.

I do not know why more people do not go this route. Be patient and and you can easily do the same as I did for the same cost or even less.
Click to expand...
I started out trying to do exactly what you did, cyber, but I think finding both a decent motor and reducer for $70 shipped is pretty rare. Congratulations, you did damn well (and got quite lucky). At probably 50 lb or more total, unless you find them locally, you might pay that much just for shipping.

I ended up finding a 1/4 HP DC motor with the integrated 10:1 reducer on ebay for $63 shipped, but it got damaged in shipping so I got refunded and ended up getting it for free. I then found a motor controller for an additional $65 shipped, the motor mount for ~$28, and maybe $15 for the Lovejoys. So with my "free" motor, I had ~$110 invested. My setup is shown here in this current MM2, 3 - Losing set? Cranken? thread. It's not quite as portable as charger's battery powered solution, but I expect it will last a lot longer, and at ~17 lb is ~1/3 the weight of separate 56C motor and reducer.
 
mongoose33 said:
OK, after a tremendous amount of dithering, soul-searching, and general confusion, I've opted for the American Ale Works motor setup.

Yeah, pricey. But also likely the last setup I ever have to buy.

Thank you all for the input and ideas! This place rocks!
Click to expand...

Did you go with the 180rpm or 240rpm motor? Thanks.
 
mongoose33 said:
The slower one. I figured the less aggressive tearing of the barley kernel, the better. And even though that doesn't sound very fast, I can do about 12# of grain in just about 2 minutes.
Click to expand...
I did the same with a 170rpm gear reduction motor, much less dust and from the research Ive done theres less wear as well
 
Tobor_8thMan said:
The All American Aleworks website motor package has the Lovejoy shaft couplers. I believe the "Shaft Diameter" is the shaft size from my mill. Is this correct?
Click to expand...

One reason why I decided to go with their supplied Lovejoy couplers was I knew they'd fit the motor; I just had to be sure the other side fit as well.

I don't know what mill you have, so I don't know what to advise you. Perhaps a quick call to All American Ale Works? Make sure you have a measured diameter of your mill's shaft, whether there's a keyway or not, and whether there's a flat on it or not.
 
Tobor_8thMan said:
Mill shaft is 12mm
Click to expand...

I ordered the 1/2" lovejoy connector, and my mill's shaft diameter is a measured 1/2".

Would that 1/2" lovejoy connector will work with 12mm? I don't know, 12mm is just a shade under 1/2".

Best bet still is to call or email the company. Spend a little time now to get it right--it'd kill you to guess, have that thing show up, and then not to be able to use it right way.
 
Just as an FYI Lovejoy does make metric couplers... I know because I needed one for the drive shaft on my chinese made mill.

:mug:
 
mongoose33 said:
Would that 1/2" lovejoy connector will work with 12mm? I don't know, 12mm is just a shade under 1/2".
Click to expand...
You should get a 12mm couple, not 1/2" (12.7mm), which will have too much play. IDK if All American Aleworks offers that option, but I expect they do. If not, just buy the coupler directly from Amazon, Grainger, or some other source. You basically just need to know the coupler size (L75?), shaft diameter, and whether or not there's a keyway (to lock down to a flat on the shaft).
cyberbackpacker said:
Just as an FYI Lovejoy does make metric couplers... I know because I needed one for the drive shaft on my chinese made mill.

:mug:
Click to expand...
Exactly. Shaft sizes are in virtually any English or metric size.
 
20181010_185144.jpg
Tobor_8thMan said:
Yes, I understand. Just confirming what I know. 22mm on the motor shaft and 12mm on my mill shaft.

I do like the drum switch... ideas...
Click to expand...
I used this coupler
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=322303387583 alsong with this 60a drum switch,
https://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=Drum+Switch+Forward/Off/Reverse+Motor+Control+Rain-Proof+Reversing+60A&_id=162858118863&&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2658
mounted to a red harbor freight cart.
 
BBBF said:
augie, Do you have any issue getting that coupler to clamp onto the MM? Mine keeps slipping and I swear if I try to tighten it any further, I'll snap the alan wrench
Click to expand...
No I have had zero issues with slipping. I'm using a kegco 3 roller though not mm shaft is different size I believe. I was afraid I would though.
 
augiedoggy said:
No I have had zero issues with slipping. I'm using a kegco 3 roller though not mm shaft is different size I believe.
Click to expand...

I think mine is 12mm to 12.7mm. I should just upgrade to lovejoys and see if it makes a difference.

20190104_200247.jpg
 
BBBF said:
Mine keeps slipping and I swear if I try to tighten it any further, I'll snap the alan wrench
Click to expand...

You might try drilling a small depression into the shaft where the set screw makes contact. That should keep it from slipping.
 
mongoose33 said:
EDITED TO ADD: I ended up choosing option A, the All American Aleworks motor. Won't be buying much more equipment for a while. Thank you all for the information and suggestions!

***************

First, I do not want to use a drill.

Second, there are several options for motorizing a MM3 mill. Here are three:

A: The most expensive option, from All-American Ale Works. Beast of a motor, Morrey has it on his, but with shipping the cost is nearly $300: https://www.allamericanaleworks.com/shop/grain-mill-motor-shaft-couplers-package/

B: A motor from Williams Brewing, an interesting kit and cheaper by nearly $100. Not 100 percent clear how I'd connect it to the 1/2" shaft on my MM3. But an interesting choice nonetheless: https://www.williamsbrewing.com/DOUBLE-ROLLER-GRAIN-MILL-MOTORIZING-KIT-P4176.aspx

C: The least expensive option from MoreBeer; at only $179.99 including shipping, far under A and still cheaper than B, but also a concern about connecting it to the 1/2" shaft on my MM3. https://www.morebeer.com/products/malt-muncher-grain-mill-high-torque-motor.html

Some of these indicate the need to connect w/ a 12mm drive shaft on the mill, which is just under 1/2". Are they considered equivalent or are they truly not interchangeable?

Does anyone have experience with either B or C? How have they lasted? Can they be connected to a 1/2" shaft on the mill? Any other comments on them I should be aware of? Or other considerations, other motor options, etc.?

Thank you in advance!
Click to expand...
why do you not want to use a drill? its a motor thats a lot less than $300 or 179,and has plenty of torque. and when you're not milling, its got a second duty. If you're worried about speed, buy a variable speed. No need to overthink a motor purchase for milling grains.
My 1/2" Ridgid cordless drill driver does just fine. Torque setting. 13 lbs in 5 minutes .
 

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