moths in grain & wheat beer gone bad

[noobrich]

1.

One bag of grain (wheat) had alot of moths & you could see the half eaten grains + it was clumping. Easy decision I threw it out.

A couple other grain bags (barley) (25kg,52 lbs. half used up) had 4 or 5 moths per bag at the most but I could not find any clumping or half eaten grains.

I have a huge freezer so I froze the grain bags and plan to use them this fall.

Anyone else have any moths stories. I am reluctant to throw away the grain for a few moths unless I hear from someone that this will create a bad beer.

Any methods to get rid of moths or keeping moths away before this happens again. My freezer is often full of beer but I may find a method to make room for both beer and grain. It is beneficial for me to buy the grain bulk & store it until I use it.

Any methods for getting rid of moths with no grains to compromise in the area?


2. I left my wheat in a keg outside my fridge over my 4 week holiday. It went bad. Tastes a little like vinegar. Not undrinkable. But definitely flawed. Anyone else having this problem. Have any sollutions?

Thanks in advance.

 

[flyangler18]

1. How were you storing said grain? In a container or just in the sack?

2. Are you sure you aren't just tasting warm beer? Was it hit with CO2 to seat the lid and the headspace purged of air?

 

[Donasay]

I actually got some moths from my LHBS, I found a few in my grain that I had left sitting around for about a month, but no clumping etc. So I used the grain anyway, now the damn moths have infested my pantry and are hard to get rid of. They took over one of my boxes of raisin bran and set up a home in there. They are in everything, and I don't even have brewing grains sitting around anymore, the worst part is all of the little creepy crawly worms that are moth larve, they eat ANYTHING, and can squeeze through tiny holes.

The worms got into one of my containers of mixed nuts, but the moths couldn't get out, so when I opened the container there was this layer of moths inside the nuts that at first I mistook for mold. I can't even begin to tell you how annoying it was to wash all of those nuts and pick out the moth parts so that I could put them out during a party.

 

[p4ck37p1mp]

Put your grain in something that seals and hit it with co2, it will kill any larvae or moths and prevent infestation. The moths are what weevils turn into when they grow up, common in anything related to grain etc. They come in commercial cereals more often that people realize, I opened a brand new box sealed in plastic bag and found one floating, not pleasant. You can use dry ice or co2 gas if you keg. I had thought about using large heavy duty garbage bags for bulk grain storage and hitting it with co2 and sealing the bags up really well. I would think the co2 will permeate the plastic eventually, so you may have to hit them every so often. I'm still researching it, but apparently dry ice is what LHBS and others use.

 

[flyangler18]

The moths are what weevils turn into when they grow up, common in anything related to grain etc. They come in commercial cereals more often that people realize, I opened a brand new box sealed in plastic bag and found one floating, not pleasant.

That's not correct. Weevils and grain/flour moths are entirely different creatures, though they are equally destructive to grain.

Having unsealed grain (malt or other household cereal grains) around is an invitation for grain moths, and they are very persistent and difficult to get rid of once you have an infestation.

 

[jfrizzell]

The worms got into one of my containers of mixed nuts, but the moths couldn't get out, so when I opened the container there was this layer of moths inside the nuts that at first I mistook for mold. I can't even begin to tell you how annoying it was to wash all of those nuts and pick out the moth parts so that I could put them out during a party.

Remind me not to come to any of your parties.

 

[bull8042]

Remind me not to come to any of your parties.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing....

 

[Revvy]

Hmmm maybe I will just let my lhbs continue to grind my grain for me, instead a buying bulk....At least once they mill it they've already crushed and shredded all the little buggies for me.

*shudders*

 

[Donasay]

Remind me not to come to any of your parties.

I just wrote that in there with the secret hope that someone would throw up in their mouth, just a little bit. I really didn't do that, I threw the nuts out.

 

[CarlosM]

i have moths as well, those little guys got into a 10lb bag of rice that i had to throw away. Ima buy one of those vittle vaults from home depot the big ones hood a sack of grain too so yea.

I hate them, the infested my pantry (i bought at IKEA) they made homes of every little screw hole, that made it around 300 holes that had itty bitty moths. Im deabating wheter or not to empty it out and fumigate it.

 

[b767fo]

The freezer in the old refrigerator I turned into a 6 tap kegerator has room for 2 five gallon buckets (after removing the ice maker). 2 buckets holds about 48 lbs of grain. Won't kill weevils or larvae but should slow the growth rate way down...just got to remember to take grain temp into account for the mash.

 

[shadow0000]

The freezer in the old refrigerator I turned into a 6 tap kegerator has room for 2 five gallon buckets (after removing the ice maker). 2 buckets holds about 48 lbs of grain. Won't kill weevils or larvae but should slow the growth rate way down...just got to remember to take grain temp into account for the mash.

Maybe you will ask to somebody to know this better this problem... or maybe try to visit some site that are related to your problem... to have some information or idea about that...




____________________
by: Manitowoc Ice Machine

 

[illin8]

Hmmm maybe I will just let my lhbs continue to grind my grain for me, instead a buying bulk....At least once they mill it they've already crushed and shredded all the little buggies for me.

So does this mean that you'll need a protein rest?!??

 

[pjj2ba]

We had an infestation many years ago. The cats loved it! Apparently they are quite tasty. For years afterwards, if you clapped your hand, the cats would come running expecting you to give them a little moth.

We went through everything in the kitchen. If any food item didn't have a screw on lid, it went into a ziploc bag. We found even an unopened bag in a box (like brownie mix) was not enough to keep the buggers out. The extra bag did the trick.

Last year I bought (can't remember where ) a pheromone trap for the moths. It is basically a sticky trap that you put a pheromone infused tab in. I saw a few moths around last summer so I tried it out, no moths, but I think they may have just come in from outside. With a lot of grain in the basement I wanted to be safe. I think these might be useful for those with a current infestation

 

[mensplace]

ERADICATE them NOW! One bag of cornmeal a few years ago and we have been trying to kill them ever since. They can eat through plastic bags and they eat a lot more than just grains. Frustrating to open a box lined with contents in plastic and THERE they are. They love to attach the cocoons to the ceiling. We have tried aerosols, pheromone traps and other remedies. Now, years later, it has become something of a JIHAD when I see one torment me.

 

[sKipdaddYg]

Hi. So I just had this problem this morning. Question is...are the grains still usable for beer? Or are they trash now? Cheers in advance!

 

[JohnMc]

If it's not all eaten up and you can handle the grossness (there is frass in it), then it will make beer.

 

[day_trippr]

How does one disclose to friends/family they're drinking beer laced with wildlife and their excrement?
I say dump it...

Cheers!

 

[sKipdaddYg]

If it's not all eaten up and you can handle the grossness (there is frass in it), then it will make beer.

Yea, I was thinking, there's probably frass in most of the stuff we eat anyways...

 

[sKipdaddYg]

I

How does one disclose to friends/family they're drinking beer laced with wildlife and their excrement?
I say dump it...

Cheers!

I don't know man. I'm sure the big boys also have weevils and stuff in their grain.

 

[Dland]

Hi. So I just had this problem this morning. Question is...are the grains still usable for beer? Or are they trash now? Cheers in advance!

If there are just a few, it is probably OK to use, a certain amount of "insect debris" is actually allowed and often exists in processed grain products. There are insect debris in most hops as well. but if there are a lot & grain is clumping, I'd dump them.

More important, in my opinion, is to get them away from your grain supply & kitchen, they will get into everything if allowed to procreate. If you get your brewing grain in sealed packages and store in sealable containers, you should not have the problem going forward. Also avoid buying any grain, nuts or similar products from bulk dispensers at any store. I have seen moth debris even in high end gourmet food stores.

 

[JohnMc]

Once they're in your house, there's pretty much only two ways to get rid of them, short of tenting the house.
First, there are pheromone traps. I don't know how well they work.
Second, (what we did successfully) put everything into Rubbermaid/Tupperware or generic equivalents. This includes all of your grain into plastic buckets, etc. The little beggars (caterpillars) can get through plastic bags. I had them growing in a bag of DME. It was interesting, because the DME grown lot were smaller, probably because of less water.
In any case, even cereal, flour, sugar, etc go into thicker walled, sealed, plastic.
If something gets moths or caterpillars in it, toss that into the trash outside, clean the plastic with soap and water right away. Keep this up until they decide your house is a food-free zone.
After we dealt with our infestation, I used this procedure: I had access to cheap dry ice. New grain went into buckets, a handful of dry ice, then a loose lid, overnight. In the morning, snap the lid shut. IF there were any in there, the CO2 wasn't so friendly to them. I imagine a CO2 purge with a regulator or CO2 fire extinguisher would accomplish the same end.
The "we" and "our" was because the infestion affected my whole family-it was their Frosted Flakes with bugs in them.

These are what we had:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianmeal_moth

 

[sKipdaddYg]

If there are just a few, it is probably OK to use, a certain amount of "insect debris" is actually allowed and often exists in processed grain products. There are insect debris in most hops as well. but if there are a lot & grain is clumping, I'd dump them.

More important, in my opinion, is to get them away from your grain supply & kitchen, they will get into everything if allowed to procreate. If you get your brewing grain in sealed packages and store in sealable containers, you should not have the problem going forward. Also avoid buying any grain, nuts or similar products from bulk dispensers at any store. I have seen moth debris even in high end gourmet food stores.

There was some clumping but not much overall. I swatted the four moths that were flying around in my brew room and that seems to have done the job. Hope they stay away. Thanks for your suggestions.

 

[sKipdaddYg]

Once they're in your house, there's pretty much only two ways to get rid of them, short of tenting the house.
First, there are pheromone traps. I don't know how well they work.
Second, (what we did successfully) put everything into Rubbermaid/Tupperware or generic equivalents. This includes all of your grain into plastic buckets, etc. The little beggars (caterpillars) can get through plastic bags. I had them growing in a bag of DME. It was interesting, because the DME grown lot were smaller, probably because of less water.
In any case, even cereal, flour, sugar, etc go into thicker walled, sealed, plastic.
If something gets moths or caterpillars in it, toss that into the trash outside, clean the plastic with soap and water right away. Keep this up until they decide your house is a food-free zone.
After we dealt with our infestation, I used this procedure: I had access to cheap dry ice. New grain went into buckets, a handful of dry ice, then a loose lid, overnight. In the morning, snap the lid shut. IF there were any in there, the CO2 wasn't so friendly to them. I imagine a CO2 purge with a regulator or CO2 fire extinguisher would accomplish the same end.
The "we" and "our" was because the infestion affected my whole family-it was their Frosted Flakes with bugs in them.

These are what we had:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianmeal_moth

Yea the link you posted showed the ones which were bothering me. Thanks!

 

[InspectorJon]

Once they're in your house, there's pretty much only two ways to get rid of them, short of tenting the house.
First, there are pheromone traps. I don't know how well they work.
Second, (what we did successfully) put everything into Rubbermaid/Tupperware or generic equivalents. This includes all of your grain into plastic buckets, etc. The little beggars (caterpillars) can get through plastic bags. I had them growing in a bag of DME. It was interesting, because the DME grown lot were smaller, probably because of less water.
In any case, even cereal, flour, sugar, etc go into thicker walled, sealed, plastic.
If something gets moths or caterpillars in it, toss that into the trash outside, clean the plastic with soap and water right away. Keep this up until they decide your house is a food-free zone.
After we dealt with our infestation, I used this procedure: I had access to cheap dry ice. New grain went into buckets, a handful of dry ice, then a loose lid, overnight. In the morning, snap the lid shut. IF there were any in there, the CO2 wasn't so friendly to them. I imagine a CO2 purge with a regulator or CO2 fire extinguisher would accomplish the same end.
The "we" and "our" was because the infestion affected my whole family-it was their Frosted Flakes with bugs in them.

These are what we had:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianmeal_moth

^^^ This. We did more or less the same to get rid of an infestation that came with some raw almonds. If you have something with them in it putting it in the freezer will also kill the moths, larvae and eggs. Leave it in the freezer for a few days.

 

[bracconiere]

friends/family

who the hell has that! boil the hell out of it and drink up! lol

 

[@RoyalGallon]

I used to work in a factory that had moth issues and was in charge of pest control. This is what I know...

• The only sure fire way to get rid of SPI is dumping infested product, thoroughly cleaning the area and surrounding area so there’s no dust then treating with a residual pesticide.
• You struggle to get rid of infestation due to the resilience of eggs. They need high >60C or very low <-18C to kill them
• Pheromone traps only attract male moths and are used for monitoring numbers in an area - not for pest control.

That’s about all there is. Cleaning is the best way to get rid of them.

 

[kevin58]

Keep in mind that if the bugs have been living in your grain for any length of time they have not only been eating... they have been excreting uric acid and frass (poop)... they have been living and dying leaving behind little carcasses. There is a lot in there that you don't even want to contemplate let alone ingest. Throw it out.

 

[augiedoggy]

I


I don't know man. I'm sure the big boys also have weevils and stuff in their grain.

yes but ignorance is bliss and piece of mind... KNOWING and having first hand knowledge of them being in the beer would ruin it for me.. I still eat ketchup and cocoa products even though my science teacher showed us proof when I was younger that much of it has tomato worms and rat feces in it so I guess its just different because I didnt see it in the specific stuff im consuming.

interesting fact I rememeber... the Feds allow up to 8% protien in ketchup by volume... protien is not normally found in ketchup but rather those big green grub looking tomato worms...

 

[day_trippr]

Ugh. Please stop!

Yes, it's one thing to know that there might be contamination in your ingredients, it's another to actually see the contamination moving around and crapping/pissing your grain. Same thing with hops: I grew three C strains plus Fuggles for seven years and occasionally had a bine so infested with spider mites and/or aphids I tossed the cones rather than watch the inevitable green wave comprised of bazillions of tiny critters bailing out of my oast...

Cheers!

 

[soccerdad]

I can't even begin to tell you how annoying it was to wash those nuts

There is a joke in there about getting the nuts out of the sack to wash them.

 

[JohnMc]

https://www.fda.gov/food/ingredient...atory-information/food-defect-levels-handbook

Citrus Fruit Juices, Canned
5 or more Drosophila and other fly eggs per 250 ml or 1 or more maggots per 250 ml

Tomatoes, Canned

Drosophila fly
Average of 10 or more fly eggs per 500 grams
OR
5 or more fly eggs and 1 or more maggots per 500 grams
OR
2 or more maggots per 500 gram

The list goes on...
FYI, "maggot" is the proper term for a larva of a true fly, in which Drosophilia species are included.