Most idiotic question ever

[EpicDumb]

SO, I cook a lot and am used to recipes, BUT when I look at recipes here I am constantly seeing "Boil at 154F for X amount of time" and I am so very very confused.

To get a boil here at sea level I sure thought it was 212F. I have made 2 batches of beer and I kept it at the 154-160 some-odd Farenheit for the recommended times, but I never got to a full boil.

The first batch tasted good and disappeared rapidly, but now I am worried that I have managed to poison my friends and family (and myself). Since I would like to KEEP having friends and family- I would really like to get some info and my basic research has yet to show: "Hey Dummy- BOIL for X amount of time, then reduce to X degrees for the remainder"

So PLEASE help! I am having fun, but I would really like to have fun and yet not potentially murder anyone.

Cheers,

A "Moran"

 

[Homercidal]

First, welcome!

What you see for a temperature of 154F is almost surely the MASH TEMP, where the crushed grains are mixed with water and when the temperature of the mixture (mash) settles it's supposed to be 154F (Or somewhere between 148-160, usually).

After the mash has done it's job (usually 1-1.5 hours) the sweet liquid is drained, and some rinse water is added to the grains and drained. The liquid is combined and THEN it's boiled for the 60 minutes.

If you are doing an EXTRACT brew (meaning you fermentables are either liquid or dry EXTRACT), then you don't have to mash the grains. You *might* be doing a "mini-mash" or "Partial Mash" brewing which case a small amount of grain is crushed and added to some water and mashed, and then the bag of grain is pulled out ans drained and the extract is added and boiled for the 60 minutes or so.

If you did a partial mash, or extract batch and didn't boil the batch, it may still be good. If you were supposed to add your own hops, then you may not get as much of the bitterness you would normally get by boiling. But the mash temp should do a reasonable job of sanitizing the wort for the yeast.

 

[EpicDumb]

Thank you!

That makes a lot more sense!

What I have been doing is putting the grains in a bag- then removing them once it has reached the time specified. I think I may have been messing it up quite badly as I have been doing a little of ALL of the methods you put in your response...I kept thinking of it like a stew and I think that is my problem.

To be certain that I have it right:

For MASH- i get the pot up to the 154F (or whatever it might be)- then once I have removed the grains (whatever hackneyed method I am doing)- THEN I get to an actual boil, correct?

I really appreciate the help and patience- I hate feeling like and idjit, and I have to admit that's how I've been feeling lately

 

[Swiller]

I remember starting out... I was so confused with the lingo.

Mash, sparge, lauter, decoction, rack, pitch...etc.

Took some time to get the terms down, but now it's second nature. I just read until I got to a word I had no idea, so I'd look it up...

 

[IrregularPulse]

The grains you're using are likely (just to confuse you more) just steeping grains. Temp is not as important. You're just extracting color and flavor. Just keep it below 170° to avoid tannin extraction and you're fine. Mashing is for All Grain brewing where the grains are actually contributing fermentable sugars. Temp comes into play here to determine, basically, how dry the beer will finish due to the amount. Post of your recipe and we'll be able to tell you if you're dealing with steeping grains or if you're actually mashing. Mashing grains need to be crushed, not so with steeping.

 

[EpicDumb]

Thanks for the patience everybody- this is 100% different from the meads I've made!

Here is the recipe I was using (Octoberfest Ale)

5.5# Pils
5.5# Vienna
2# Munich
0.5# Caramunich
0.5# Caravienne

Single infusion mash (1.25 qts./lb.) at 154 degrees for 90 minutes.

1 oz. Tettnang 4.4% AA at 60 min.
0.5 oz Hallertau 4.2 % AA at 30 Min
0.5 oz. Hallertau 4.2% AA at 15 min

 

[mhurst111]

looks / sounds like you are doing a Brew In A Bag (BIAB) method. Check this thread out and see if it clears some things up.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f244/biab-brewing-pics-233289/

 

[SquidPope]

In terms of poisoning yourself and your friends, my understanding so far is that with proper sanitation the worst you can produce is beer that tastes awful but isn't actually toxic; unless you do some foolish thing like use toxic ingredients to start with Once the yeast are up and running, the alcohol they produce tends to make it a hostile environment to the sort of bacteria that can actually hurt you.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

yeah. Don't forget, the pilgrims served beer to everybody including children because drinking the water made them sick but drinking beer didn't.

 

[AnOldUR]

Mashing grains need to be crushed, not so with steeping.

Wait! What?

 

[boicutt]

Mashing grains need to be crushed, not so with steeping.

I'm not sure this is correct. Pretty sure the size of the crush doesnt matter for steeping but pretty sure it needs to be crushed!

 

[Homercidal]

Steeping grains should be crushed as well as mashing grains.

Crystal malts and most roast malts are steeping for flavor only.

Mashing grains need to be mashed so they contribute sugars to the wort. If in doubt, there are many sources online that tell what grains need mashing, can be steeped, or eve if they need some other source of enzymes to help convert their starches.

 

[AnOldUR]

Steeping grains should be crushed as well as mashing grains. . . .Crystal malts and most roast malts are steeping for flavor only.

I agree. Sure they don't need to be mashed, but if they're not crushed you won't be getting much color or flavor coming through the husk. The only thing that I know of that doesn't benefit from crushing are flaked grains.

 

[rlmiller10]

The best thing you can do as a new brewer is to buy John Palmers "How to Brew". Or as a minimum read the on-line version at www.howtobrew.com. It will help you to understand the concepts and terms.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[LovesIPA]

The grains you're using are likely (just to confuse you more) just steeping grains. Temp is not as important. You're just extracting color and flavor. Just keep it below 170° to avoid tannin extraction and you're fine.

Temperature is not related to tannin extraction. Otherwise a decoction mash wouldn't be a thing.

It's true that some grains do not need to be mashed. This chart will tell you which ones need mashing and which ones don't. Think of mashing as "converting starches to fermentable sugars". If the starches have already been converted by the maltster then you don't need to mash.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malts_Chart

Mashing is for All Grain brewing where the grains are actually contributing fermentable sugars. Temp comes into play here to determine, basically, how dry the beer will finish due to the amount.

Mashing also plays a part in mini-mash and partial extract brews. Even if you aren't brewing all-grain, you may still need to mash certain specialty grains at the correct temperature.

Post of your recipe and we'll be able to tell you if you're dealing with steeping grains or if you're actually mashing. Mashing grains need to be crushed, not so with steeping.

As others have said, this is absolutely not true. If you expect to get any sugar out of the grain, it must be crushed.

 

[boicutt]

So much misinformation here. Tannins are related to too high temps. It applies to tea as well...

 

[LovesIPA]

Then explain why a decoction mash doesn't extract tannins.

 

[boicutt]

Then explain why a decoction mash doesn't extract tannins.

Tannin extraction depends on two things ph and temp. When you're doing a decoction mash you should be trying to leave as much of the water possible behind, leaving most of the released enzymes behind, as they will be altered when boiled.

pH is higher when temps are lower. Decoction pH is lower when being boiled, hence why no tannins are extracted. High pH is responsible for tannin extraction.

Probably repeated myself, but I hope you get it. A bit more complicated than this but thats why when done right no tannins will be extracted.

 

[Homercidal]

Then explain why a decoction mash doesn't extract tannins.

As I understand it, while there is a lot of grain in the decoction, the pH is relatively low. After you drain the mash and add sparge water, the pH rises quite a bit.

This high pH and high temperature both combine to cause tannin extraction.

 

[j1n]

The best thing you can do as a new brewer is to buy John Palmers "How to Brew". Or as a minimum read the on-line version at www.howtobrew.com. It will help you to understand the concepts and terms.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

I agree. I read that book and did a ton of research before even doing my first batch.

So much misinformation here. Tannins are related to too high temps. It applies to tea as well...

PH is also a factor... just sayin.

 

[boicutt]

PH is also a factor... just sayin.

Yup, I mentioned it. I'm pretty sure that most people starting out are not paying attention to pH just yet. So if they aren't, there is a good chance that pH isn't where it should be. Anyways, straying from the OP's starting thread, pulling out!

 

[LovesIPA]

Sorry for the derail and thank you for the education.

 

[grainbill]

Epic, get papazian's "Joy of Brewing" I've got my copy when I started 29 years ago, it was the bomb back then. I still dig into it on occasion. It covers all the fundamentals. I think the newer editions are probably more up to date for todays brewers....and you don't need to go whole hog right off the bat, great for progressing your methods as you go!

 

[EpicDumb]

I really appreciate all the help!

Checked the carboy a little bit ago and the kreusen (I've seen about 15 ways to spell it) is looking good and airlock is bubbling along about every 15 seconds or so. So at least SOMETHING is happening!

I am (as I type this) ordering the books recommended.