Most frustrating hobby ever?

[tubz]

I need your help oh lords of homebrew. I have been brewing about twice a month for 6 months or so. I have never made a single drinkable batch of beer. Every single beer I do ends up with the same puckering, sour smell and taste, which I'm sure is an infection of some kind. I've been trying to troubleshoot by removing one element of my process at a time but nothing has worked. I've stopped making starters, pitching straight out of the smack pack (which i sanitize, along with the scissors i use to cut the pack). I've started only doing month long primary fermentations in order to reduce my chances of infection. I feel like I've tried everything.

I do 5 gallon all grain batches on my stove. I soak and scrub everything in PBW followed by StarSan. I'm very careful with cleaning and sanitization even pre-boil because I've gotten so obsessed with avoiding infection. I ferment in a glass carboy which I also soak overnight in PBW followed by a several hour soak in StarSan.

The only things I can think of are the fact that my electric stove doesn't exactly boil very vigorously so perhaps it's not killing off microbes in the wort? I also never cover the kettle when I'm using my wort chiller, perhaps the little guys are falling during that ten minute period?

I need to get this figured out. I would like to just once make something that I can actually enjoy instead of pouring it down the drain.

Any ideas/suggestions?

-Tubz.

 

[ShakerD]

Maybe you can walk us step by step through your process in as much detail as you can give?

Oh and don't discount how frustrating shipbuilding in a bottle would be.

 

[PurpleJeepXJ]

Maybe you are trying beers that are beyond your current skill. Not to sound like an @$$ but did you just jump into home brewing by starting with AG? Any extract kits ever? My first couple of AG batches were bad but drinkable. I am a firm believer in starting with extracts in order to get the basics down. Let me know a little more about your processes post boil and hopefully I can help.

 

[tnbrewer371]

wow. thats terrible to hear. wish i had the know how to tell you where your going wrong but if your doing everything your saying there im stumped, though i am no expert thats for sure. maybe sanitize everything with just a simple bleach water solution if you really think that infection is the problem. another thing to consider are you allowing your beer to ferment in the same area every time? if it is getting the same infection (similar off taste everytime??) i would maybe move it to a different area during brewing, cooling, fermenting, and bottling. just my .02 best of luck

 

[MNDan]

Are you using an immersion chiller? If so, boiling it in your wort for at least 15 minutes? And if it's a counterflow, how are u cleaning it?

It sounds like you are doing a full-wort boil, which is good. If you are concerned about the strength of your boil you could always invest in a turkey fryer, but as long as you are boiling even a little bit no beer-spoiling microbes will survive. Any grain dust around? That can be a source of lacto, but I have grain dust near where I chill my wort and don't have any of those problems.

Are you topping off with tap water at all? Are you boiling your priming sugar? Have you tried the beer right out of the fermenter to see if it's the fermenter or the bottles that is causing it?

 

[Homebrewtastic]

It sounds like to me that your first batch got an infection and it still lives in your gear.

Throw out any plastic gear you have been using. Fermenters, funnels, siphons etc... Even with vigorous cleaning and sanitizing they can still easily harbor bacteria.

Switch any gear that you can to glass or metal. You might even try switching the rooms in which you ferment. It might sound extreme but it's worth a shot.

 

[Mparsons327]

More specifics would surely help. Do you use tap water or bottled?

 

[tubz]

It starts the night before when I fill my carboy with PBW to soak overnight. I give it a good scrub with the brush in the morning and fill it when Starsan. This soaks for a few hours while I mash and boil. I fill a five gallon bucket with pbw and soak and scrub everything else (racking cane, tubing, airlock, even my mash paddle, etc.), then I soak all of these things in Star San until I'm ready to use them. I mash and lauter in my home made cooler mash tun for an hour. I collect the runnings in my kettle and boil. After flame out I move the kettle to the sink where I cool with an immersion chiller. While this is happening I empty the star san from the carboy and rack the wort into it. I aerate the wort and pitch the yeast, throw on an airlock and put it in the closet.

Several weeks pass.....

I crack open the carboy and I'm greeted with the same sickening smell. At first I thought it was just green beer so I let it go for a while. But every batch is the same.

 

[MNDan]

And now that I reread it, u are doing all-grain? There are lots of other potential areas to look at then. Getting full conversion? pH not too high?

 

[joety]

Where are you in Wisconsin?

 

[joety]

How are you aerating the wort?

 

[ongreystreet]

Maybe you are trying beers that are beyond your current skill. Not to sound like an @$$ but did you just jump into home brewing by starting with AG? Any extract kits ever? My first couple of AG batches were bad but drinkable. I am a firm believer in starting with extracts in order to get the basics down. Let me know a little more about your processes post boil and hopefully I can help.

12 batches of beer and not a single good one? I gotta agree, go try an extract. If you can make a good extract beer, that will eliminate some of the possible causes.

 

[tubz]

Thanks for your help so far. I'll try to keep answering your questions as they come.

My immersion chiller I simply soak in starsan.
I'm not topping off with water, doing full boils.
It's definitely in the fermenter.
I've tried several different water sources. Right now I'm using tap water through a charcoal filter.

 

[dandw12786]

I'll echo Mparsons, tap or bottled water? I used tap for my first 5 batches and it was gross. Two batches ago I used 4 gallons of bottled and used tap to make up the difference. The flavor is still there, but less noticeable. My last one I used all bottled, I'll know in 4 weeks how it worked, but I think it'll be great.

 

[Jawbox0]

How about the Sanitizer. Maybe it isn't really killing your bugs. Are you following the directions exactly?
What kind of concentration are you using and how are you measuring it?
Have you checked the Ph of the mixed StarSan?
What temperature water are you mixing it with??

How are you transferring from the Kettle to the Primary? Are you dumping everything or trying to strain out the trub? (I say dump it all and minimize problems in straining)

Most importantly, what comes into contact with your cooled wort? How about your spoon, do you pull it out, and use it again after the wort is cooled without sanitizing?

What's in your Airlock? Try using some cheap Vodka?

 

[tubz]

I do a mix of extract and all grain, depending on how much time I have. I get the same results with both.

 

[Captain Damage]

Just one thought off the top of my head, do you rinse between the PBW and StarSan? PBW is an alkaline cleaser, i.e., doesn't kill much; StarSan is an acid sanitizer, i.e., only kills when the pH is below 3. Just thinking maybe the PBW is raising the pH of the StarSan to an ineffective level.

One other thought: Are you bottling? Do you disassemble and sanitize the spigot on your bottling bucket?

 

[Jawbox0]

Thanks for your help so far. I'll try to keep answering your questions as they come.

My immersion chiller I simply soak in starsan.
I'm not topping off with water, doing full boils.
It's definitely in the fermenter.
I've tried several different water sources. Right now I'm using tap water through a charcoal filter.

I'd definitely boil the IC for at least 15 minutes at the end of your boil. There's a lot of nicks and crannies for bugs to hide there.

 

[tubz]

I check the pH of the starsan before I use it just to make sure its good. I mixing it with room temp tap water.

I transfer as much as I can, leaving the trub behind with the racking cane.

After I use a spoon(or anything) it goes right back into the sanitizer until i need it again.

I'm using sanitizer in my airlock.

 

[rustbucket]

this may sounds stupid but you did not say that you are sanitizing your IM and your aerator. if you are then i would assume something else but if not, i would def suspect those being the problem

plus how are you sanitizing the IM? throwing it into the boiling wort or with starsan?

the boiling wort no matter how vigorous should kill anything because its it stabilizes at/around 212F, as long as its boiling. it only typically gets higher temp if it was under pressure.

EDIT: my questions where answered while i was writing this

 

[tubz]

Yes I'm rinsing everything between the PBW and Starsan.

I keg everything, but nothing makes it into the keg because it's terrible. Ha.

I'll definitely try boiling the chiller. Good idea.

 

[PurpleJeepXJ]

Forget about the fancy sanitizers and bleach the hell out of all your equipment. What you can soak for a day do so. Then start over after rinsing the bleach off. Sounds like starsan or whatever you use is not killing whatever is the common denominator bacteria between all your brews. Everyone will probably jump in now saying don't use bleach but lots of people use it as their primary sanitizer as long as you use it with moderation.

 

[Jawbox0]

I transfer as much as I can, leaving the trub behind with the racking cane.

To simplify things, I'd try one batch where you just sanitize a funnel, and dump directly from the kettle into the fermentor. This could reveal if a bug is living in your siphon or hose.

 

[Rundownhouse]

Forget about the fancy sanitizers and bleach the hell out of all your equipment. What you can soak for a day do so.

Except his kegs. And maybe his spoon. And anything else stainless.

Starsan is a fine sanitizer when used properly. Bleach is a fine sanitizer, too, except that it'll destroy stainless. No reason to use a potentially dangerous sanitizer when there are other options that are safer but equally effective.

 

[PurpleJeepXJ]

Bleach destroys stainless? Didn't know that. I am not talking about a straight bleach soak. 25-1 shouldn't hurt stainless.

 

[Dog House Brew]

If you are mixing your StarSan with tap, it could be rendering it useless. I ggot an infection, and it was because I mixed it with tap water. I would mix your StarSan with distilled water and also get a spray bottle to mist things also.

 

[Homebrewtastic]

I've used bleach before and as long as you rinse it with piping hot water you won't have any problems.

 

[curlyfat]

The big question I have is, what temp are you fermenting at? All my beers tasted the same (i.e. not really that great) until I started keeping the temps 68F or less. A simple swamp-cooler setup could change your whole world!

 

[PurpleJeepXJ]

You bring up a good point Cruly. If his temps are fluctuating then that can definitely make the beer taste bad.

 

[Rundownhouse]

Bleach destroys stainless? Didn't know that. I am not talking about a straight bleach soak. 25-1 shouldn't hurt stainless.

Hmm, that's a good question: is there a relationship between dilution and contact time that affects pitting stainless? My guess is that a 25:1 would still damage a keg given enough time, but I don't really know or have anything to back that up other than it makes sense to me.