Mosaic with WLP530

[Abrayton]

Hi all. Looking for thoughts on a single hop ipa using only mosaic with WLP530 as the yeast. Grain bill is my ipa base of pale malt and c10. This is in part because I’m to cheap to buy yeast and I’m looking for new ways to keep 530 fresh and in my rotation. The other part is that I’m on an IPA kick lately and I have a pound of mosaic on hand.
Cheers

 

[Abrayton]

Well I went ahead and brewed this yesterday.
5.5 gallons
12lb Belgian pils
1lb c10
.5oz mosaic 60min
1.5oz mosaic 10min
2oz mosaic 5min
2oz mosaic 0min
Will dry hop with 2oz mosaic
wlp530 slurry
Keeping my fingers crossed that the yeast and hops pair well

 

[dmtaylor]

If you like Belgian cat pee, it will be great!

 

[Abrayton]

First time using mosaic. I heard the cat pee thing with citra too but I didn’t get that. Are you thinking cat pee bomb because of the amount of mosaic I used or because that can be part of the mosaic profile or some other reason?

 

[HopHeavy]

I love Citra. I love Mosaic. Never had cat pee. Guess I ought to give it a try.

 

[dmtaylor]

First time using mosaic. I heard the cat pee thing with citra too but I didn’t get that. Are you thinking cat pee bomb because of the amount of mosaic I used or because that can be part of the mosaic profile or some other reason?

Both. It's an extremely bold hop, similar to Citra but not as good IMHO. The pee would be there even in a smaller amount. Those who don't have cats might not understand. I have 4. I do not want to drink their pee. Extreme hop lovers would probably love the taste of pure cat pee. I don't think I would.

 

[Abrayton]

Turned out damn tasty

 

[bmaupin]

tasting notes? what was you fermentation temperature schedule?

 

[Abrayton]

Pine and tropical with what I have to describe as pineapple and maybe mango. Belgian yeast is definitely there but is playing a nice background role.

I pitched at 64° and let it free rise to about 76°. Dry hopped on day seven and kegged day ten.

I mashed low and this went down to 1.004. Carbed to 2.5 vol

 

[Chris-Naz]

Nice work. I have yet to add too much mosaic to a batch of homebrew. Went up to 1lb in 5gal and it was superb.

I have noticed that Belgian yeasts do some weird stuff (biotransformation?) to hop flavors. For example, wlp550 converts Vic’s secret into a melon bomb whereas 1318 provides a more galaxy-like flavor profile from the hop.

Did you get anything weird or unexpected popping from this brew that is different from what you’d get from mosaic in commercial ipa - i.e. what kind of “tropical”? Would you dry hop earlier in fermentation next time?

 

[Abrayton]

Did you get anything weird or unexpected popping from this brew that is different from what you’d get from mosaic in commercial ipa - i.e. what kind of “tropical”? Would you dry hop earlier in fermentation next time?

I honestly didn’t know what to expect but I do know the outcome was delicious. I described the “tropical” as pineapple and mango but also piney. Granted I lost a lot of beer to the hops but the keg was kicked in just over a week because the flavor was so intriguing I just had to have one more glass to try and figure it out! I just rebrewed this and other than an overnight mash, the only change was to swap some of the boil addition hops in order to increase the dry hop amount

 

[couchsending]

POF+ yeasts can create some really interesting flavor and aroma compounds from hops.

 

[Chris-Naz]

Thanks for the response! I’m digging into Loral hops at the moment: 1) saison w/wlp568 and 4oz Loral in the whirlpool, which is carbing up; 2) planning a golden strong/triple with Loral (probably just whirlpool additions). I’ll report back.

 

[couchsending]

Interested to know what you think of Loral.. to me they can come off as almost synthetic lemon... in not a great way.

 

[Chris-Naz]

Interested to know what you think of Loral.. to me they can come off as almost synthetic lemon... in not a great way.

Interesting. I’ll keep you posted as I’m 1 week from cracking into the wlp568 saison.
What yeast did you go with and how much in the dry hop?
Based on some other forum feedback I’ve found, it sounds like a heavy hand is not recommended with Loral and it would be good blended/accent role. Thoughts? How would you use it in the future?

 

[Chris-Naz]

Interested to know what you think of Loral.. to me they can come off as almost synthetic lemon... in not a great way.

Ok. See attached photos for recipe and visuals. This was bottled 2wks ago and spent 12 hours in the fridge.
Hot-side Loral-hopped wlp568 saison:
Aroma: Belgian yeast. Touch of clove/phenol/spice. As the beer warms I’m getting more herbal/grassy/hay notes and underlying it all is pleasant lemon/pithy citrus peel.
Flavor: phenol hits me first followed by spice and lemon.
Thoughts: nowhere in this beer do I get “floral” aroma or flavor. My guess is that it was biotransformed during fermentation. Given couchsending’s lemon pledge comment, my guess is the timing and quantity of application during the brewing/fermenting process is important in obtaining the desired outcome.
Personally, I’d like to dry hop with this variety after a cold crash or filter to see if the aroma/taste descriptors on the yvh website match up more with my impressions.

 

[Abrayton]

So my second try at this didn’t turn out so well. Drinkable but the flavor/aroma isn’t even close to the first batch. Possible culprits based on changes I made with the second batch:
-overnight mash
-reduced bittering addition by half and increased late additions
-filtered from kettle to fermenter
-bagged dry hop
-fermented warmer
-cold crashed before kegging
My first batch was friggin awesome but this one is just not good. Looking for feedback on which of the above may be the culprit.

 

[Chris-Naz]

So my second try at this didn’t turn out so well. Drinkable but the flavor/aroma isn’t even close to the first batch. Possible culprits based on changes I made with the second batch:
-overnight mash
-reduced bittering addition by half and increased late additions
-filtered from kettle to fermenter
-bagged dry hop
-fermented warmer
-cold crashed before kegging
My first batch was friggin awesome but this one is just not good. Looking for feedback on which of the above may be the culprit.

Bummer!
I’ll put my money on the combination of bagged hops (decreased surface area/flow/exposure), warmer fermentation temp (drive off volitiles more vigorously?) and the cold crash (O2 exposure). Do you have any air suck-back mitigation?
I’ve been “soft crashing”, which is a 2 day temp ramp down to 58F from primary ferm temp. This precipitates most of the hops while maintaining positive pressure in my carboy. I then CO2 pump (2-3 psi) to my purged keg, purge the head space, pressurize to 10-15 psi and finally cold crash. Then I force carb.
Also, if you’ve got an auto-siphon get rid of it!
Hope this helps

 

[Abrayton]

This actually got a lot better with some time in the keg. Thinking about trying it next time with wyeast 3711 and a citra/mosaic combo.

 

[JohnSand]

I have used 530/3787 several times. It makes good beer from the sixties through the eighties (temp), but very different.
Thanks for posting your recipe and results.