MoreBeer is out of California?

[DonT]

A friend just texted me saying MoreBeer is closing all Ca stores. The owner of his LHBS told him it might kill his business because of shipping.
Not sure if this is completely accurate, but I thought I'd put it out there for anyone else to confirm.

I'm bummed...

 

[mac_1103]

A friend just texted me saying MoreBeer is closing all Ca stores. The owner of his LHBS told him it might kill his business because of shipping.

Closing stores, or closing warehouses/distribution centers?

 

[DonT]

The phrase he used was "They are pulling out of Calif. and he would have to order everything from Kansas City."

 

[Snuffy]

 

[tdf]

The Los Altos location was a storefront, not a shipping warehouse. The warehouse is in Pittsburg CA.

I just checked and there is a change on the website - it used to show "In Stock" for both CA and PA. Now it just says "In stock and delivered to you by...".

They haven't changed the shipping page which shows both the PA and CA warehouses, however: https://www.morebeer.com/content/shipping_policy.

 

[sibelman]

from their web site just now​

Retail Locations:​

Concord, CA​

995 Detroit ave. Unit G Concord, CA 94518
Mon - Fri = 10am to 6pm, Sat & Sun = 10am to 5pm
[email protected] - 925-771-7107 - More Details

Riverside, CA​

1506 Columbia Ave. Suite 12 Riverside, CA 92507
Mon = Closed, Tues - Fri = 10am to 6pm, Sat & Sun = 10am to 4pm
[email protected], [email protected], 951-779-9971 - More Details

Los Altos, CA ​

Permanently Closed - More Details

San Leandro, CA​

Permanently Closed - More Details

 

[Bobby_M]

Morebeer isn't the only homebrew supply distributor in the country. If their shipping warehouse location is literally the make or break for an entire retail store, they kind of put all of their eggs in one fragile basket.

 

[50calshooter]

They are closing Their East Coast and West Coast locations and consolidating to one location in Kansas City.

 

[mac_1103]

They are closing Their East Coast and West Coast locations and consolidating to one location in Kansas City.

So one central warehouse instead of two on the coasts. Unless they're also changing their shipping cost model, what might be the LHBS owner's basis for assuming that shipping costs are going to put him out of business?

 

[CascadesBrewer]

They are closing Their East Coast and West Coast locations and consolidating to one location in Kansas City.

Interesting. I have been a customer of MoreBeer back when I used to live near Seattle. When I moved to the East Coast, I was happy they opened a location in PA. Their PA location is 250 miles from where I live and I get my items in ~2 days. If the only option is 1,000 miles away, I will likely look for a different vendor for online shopping. I do try to support my local shops, and some of them have rolled out reduced or free shipping offers.

I see the following related to shipping from PA:

Important Notice: Temporary Shipping from CA Warehouse
We are currently moving our East Coast warehouse. All orders are temporarily shipping from our CA warehouse. We expect to be back up and running the week of 8/19. During this week we appreciate your understanding on potential extended ship times

 

[hilljack13]

Off topic, but with all the talk of a massive slowdown in homebrew and craft beer, does any of this relate to why Northernbrewer and AIH are completely out of all grain kits? Another supply issue?

 

[Deadalus]

Interesting. I have been a customer of MoreBeer back when I used to live near Seattle. When I moved to the East Coast, I was happy they opened a location in PA. Their PA location is 250 miles from where I live and I get my items in ~2 days. If the only option is 1,000 miles away, I will likely look for a different vendor for online shopping. I do try to support my local shops, and some of them have rolled out reduced or free shipping offers.

I see the following related to shipping from PA:

Important Notice: Temporary Shipping from CA Warehouse
We are currently moving our East Coast warehouse. All orders are temporarily shipping from our CA warehouse. We expect to be back up and running the week of 8/19. During this week we appreciate your understanding on potential extended ship times

The north half of VA is around that same distance of 250 miles from Brewhardware. The southern half of VA is in Morebeer's 2-day zone. If you are in the southern half of VA, Brewhardware could also reach you in two business days would be my guess.

Morebeer's one day zone isn't particularly wide north and south of Pittsburgh. The city is in western PA and north south routes don't map out as well. Kansas City is about 250 miles from the center of the 48 states but has a spiderweb of major roads spiralling out. Potentially cheaper operating costs I would guess as far as labor and real estate. Reversing their shipping map suggests maybe some difficulty in getting things to the west coast from Kansas City in 2 days as there is a band of 3-day shipping running down from MT south to TX. But that could be a function of regional delivery slowness of sparsely populated states. From hub to hub about the same time but delivering locally my not be as quick in the Rocky Mountains. Also potentially a reasonable move for employees if they follow as cost of living could be lower. I'm sure they'll have their hiccups in shipping. I did watch their video of warehouse order picking, seems like they have automated checks for picking orders now. I know in the past I often had screwed up orders. I don't order from them often anymore to say order picking has continued to be mixed quality but in the past about 1 out of 3 orders had errors. They always fixed it to be fair. Maybe they also see an opportunity to more strongly compete against Northern Brewer, a company that seems to be stumbling about.

 

[Horseflesh Inferno]

Ugh! I've been going to them since they were called beer, beer, and more beer. The riverside location is the closest "LHMS" near me at 45 minutes away. I hope they don't close that location. I usually order by mail but if I need a new yeast I drive there to get it. I don't like having yeast shipped to me in the summer. Luckily once I have a yeast I have it forever. But sometimes I need something new.

 

[Brewer dad]

I’m in VA too, north western ish part. Honestly I was getting their CA orders about as fast as the PA due to PA consistently taking longer to get things shipped. In my experience they have been very customer oriented so if I’m ordering online I’ll still go through them. I have a LHBS about 35-40mins away that I frequent when I can esp for yeast. But as long as morebeers prices and free shipping stays the same I will use them for most things due to convenience.

 

[MaxStout]

Off topic, but with all the talk of a massive slowdown in homebrew and craft beer, does any of this relate to why Northernbrewer and AIH are completely out of all grain kits? Another supply issue?

Interesting, those are kind of bread-and-butter items to have in stock.

Maybe supplier issues, though I haven't heard any rumblings of major grain or hops shortages. Or staffing--you need people to weigh and package ingredients.

Perhaps NB is going with just in time logistics and something held up the show.

 

[Bobby_M]

So one central warehouse instead of two on the coasts. Unless they're also changing their shipping cost model, what might be the LHBS owner's basis for assuming that shipping costs are going to put him out of business?

I'd hate to speak for any other retail store but my assumption is that store owner was referring to Brewmasterwholesale which is morebeer's wholesale division that sells to retail stores just like BSG and LD carlson. They share the same warehouses that Morebeer and Morewine does. Retailers pay freight per pallet and the closer you are to the warehouse, the lower the price. Since Pittsburg, PA is not particularly far from NJ, my freight cost is definitely going to be impacted but even doubling pallet rates shouldn't kill a business because it gets spread out across the whole order. If it's a pallet of grain, it would add about $2 per sack. Not desireable, but I like to look on the bright side. Essentially morebeer is moving their retail shipping location further away from the North East, which puts me in a better position to serve that market.

 

[DonT]

I'd hate to speak for any other retail store but my assumption is that store owner was referring to Brewmasterwholesale which is morebeer's wholesale division that sells to retail stores just like BSG and LD carlson.

This is correct, as my friends text referred to Brewmaster.

 

[Yesfan]

Interesting, those are kind of bread-and-butter items to have in stock.

Maybe supplier issues, though I haven't heard any rumblings of major grain or hops shortages. Or staffing--you need people to weigh and package ingredients.

Perhaps NB is going with just in time logistics and something held up the show.

My thoughts too.

Maybe in NB's case, they're trying to update the AA% amounts on their packaged hops.....

 

[Bramling Cross]

Interesting.

Increasingly, I've found MoreBeer to be less and less price competitive vs. my local homebrew shops (myLHBS in Seven Corners, VA and Annapolis Homebrew in Annapolis,MD). As a long term customer, I still think of them as B3, and I actually took the time to write them an email a few months ago explaining why they no longer see quarterly orders from me. Frankly, I had assumed that the cost of post-COVID shipping was killing them. This move to a central location sorta pisses me off as it suggests that they're targeting labor prices. I'm not a fan of that and I expect that my orders from them will continue to diminish.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I've found MoreBeer to be less and less price competitive vs. my local homebrew shops (myLHBS in Seven Corners, VA and Annapolis Homebrew in Annapolis,MD)

Personally, if I [had] two LHBSs (with the ability to custom order), I wouldn't be shopping online

Rest in Peace:

• Brew'n Grow MN
• Midwest Supplies - the best stocked grain room in the upper mid-west, maybe the USA.
• NB (Lyndale Ave): Major store enhancements after AB-Invev subsidiary bought NB. Always a little better than NB (St Paul).
• NB (St Paul): "sector 001" for a business that was part of creating the hobby that we now enjoy.

 

[Bramling Cross]

Personally, if I two LHBSs (with the ability to custom order), I wouldn't be shopping online

Rest in Peace:

• Brew'n Grow MN
• Midwest Supplies - the best stocked grain room in the upper mid-west, maybe the USA.
• NB (Lyndale Ave): Major store enhancements after AB-Invev subsidiary bought NB. Always a little better than NB (St Paul).
• NB (St Paul): "sector 001" for a business that was part of creating the hobby that we now enjoy.

It's something that I do not take for granted. In particular, myLHBS* went the extra mile during COVID and kept me brewing. It's a great shop and I always funnel as much business their way as possible.

*Never name your business as something that can be construed as a typo.

 

[madscientist451]

I can understand why more beer, or any other company would want to consolidate their operations, cut costs and stay competitive. It might be something as simple as the lease on their warehouse was up for renewal and they were ready for a change.

 

[Brewdog80]

I don't and probably won't buy from them due to prior issue, but moving from Kali and east coast to Kansas City makes 100% sense. One warehouse, one set of managers, one set of employees, even if they add 20% warehouse staff, overhead costs for the location will drop for them by 50%. Kali and east coast rents are probably double, mat be triple what could be had in the lower mid west. And wages will be 25 to 50% lower than Kali for sure.

 

[passedpawn]

Personally, if I [had] two LHBSs (with the ability to custom order), I wouldn't be shopping online

Rest in Peace:

• Brew'n Grow MN
• Midwest Supplies - the best stocked grain room in the upper mid-west, maybe the USA.
• NB (Lyndale Ave): Major store enhancements after AB-Invev subsidiary bought NB. Always a little better than NB (St Paul).
• NB (St Paul): "sector 001" for a business that was part of creating the hobby that we now enjoy.

I'll add Brewmaster's Warehouse. That's been gone a while, but I really liked their online site.

I buy all of my ingredients at my LHBS, VetterBrew. They don't do online shopping. It's an interesting biz model: they owner does not require a profit on the biz - all he needs is for the proceeds to cover costs (incl. mortgage on the building). Eventually, he'll own the building and (I presume) retire from his day job to run the place with his wife. It's a tidy little place with everything I need.

For equipment, Bobby's shop is pretty awesome.

 

[redrocker652002]

Well, for me, I used the Los Altos store for quick buys or to fill in if I needed to top off a grain or two. They had some really nice guys in the store that were very helpful. I was going to bring a keg by to see if they could help me get the right posts and lid setup to get it in my rotation, but guess I won't be doing that. In the San Francisco area, I have not found anything close to me in the independent retailer, so I have been using Morebeer. Williams brewing is in San Leandro, but advertises it is only a warehouse where I can pickup orders but they don't have a retail side there. That is ok too, I might make an order from them and see where they are and pick it up. Anybody in the San Francisco bay area who might know of an independent store in the area, please let me know. I don't mind driving a bit if it is to support a mom and pop store. I would love to use Bobby M store, but shipping was a killer for me out here on the west coast. I did see one retail internet store that allowed you to order by the ounce, but damned if I can remember what the name of the place was. I was going to try that, as I am getting tired of having to seal up 4 to 8 ounces of grains that I did not use. LOL.

Edit, I found the place I was thinking It is RiteBrew. I am going to run a recipe order thru them and see what the shipping is.

Edit #2. In trying to put together a simple recipe of 10lbs of Xtra Pale and 12 ounces of 15L they have neither. LOL. That is probably why I was using Morebeer. I tried Williams and same thing. Might have to go back the Northern Brewer and see what they have.

 

[mac_1103]

Kali and east coast rents are probably double, mat be triple what could be had in the lower mid west.

California, sure. But their "east coast" warehouse was in the Pittsburgh metro. Rents and wages are actually slightly lower in Pittsburgh than KC.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I'll add Brewmaster's Warehouse. That's been gone a while, but I really liked their online site.

Currently, for those in the west Twin Cities MN, there is Beer Meister (https://www.beermeister.com/).

For me, it's not 'local' as it's a 45 min one way drive in good traffic.

---

It will be interesting to see what MoreBeer does after operations 'return to normal' in their new location.

 

[matt_m]

I only order from them occasionally but noticed the last time I ordered that even though I am about a day away from Pittsburgh by Fedex they no longer say 1 or 2 day delivery. Just fast and free. That order 10 days ago did ship out of Pittsburgh with a couple day delay and was delivered 2 days later.

 

[Yesfan]

I don't and probably won't buy from them due to prior issue, but moving from Kali and east coast to Kansas City makes 100% sense. One warehouse, one set of managers, one set of employees, even if they add 20% warehouse staff, overhead costs for the location will drop for them by 50%. Kali and east coast rents are probably double, mat be triple what could be had in the lower mid west. And wages will be 25 to 50% lower than Kali for sure.

Add in fuel costs too. The price of gas/diesel is cheaper in Kansas City vs California and Pennsylvania, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was a concern.

 

[mac_1103]

The price of gas/diesel is cheaper in Kansas City vs California and Pennsylvania, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was a concern.

Don't trucks have to refuel all around the country in order to deliver all around the country? Besides, I don't think they're running their own fleet.