More on fermenting

[Deon Botha]

Okay, so there is different opinions on whether to transfer to secondary or not. So one reason I am transferring to the secondary is because I have read that the beer can get a yeasty taste if left on the yeast cake too long. My questions are this:

1 - How long is too long on the yeast cake after primary fermentation has finished?
2 - If I do transfer to secondary, how long can I leave it in socondary? (The reason I ask this is because I want to get a clearer beer and reduce the bottle sediment)

Thank you

 

[mongoose33]

Okay, so there is different opinions on whether to transfer to secondary or not. So one reason I am transferring to the secondary is because I have read that the beer can get a yeasty taste if left on the yeast cake too long. My questions are this:

1 - How long is too long on the yeast cake after primary fermentation has finished?
2 - If I do transfer to secondary, how long can I leave it in socondary? (The reason I ask this is because I want to get a clearer beer and reduce the bottle sediment)

Thank you

First, don't bother with a secondary unless you're aging the beer a long time. Seriously. Very, VERY few brewers today would advocate for using a secondary, and the few that do are using outmoded processes (in most of our opinions).

If you get it off the yeast in a month, you'll be fine. I typically left it on the yeast for 2-3 weeks, but if your life intervenes and you can't do that, a month is not too long.

Why would you want to get it off the yeast that fast? To clear the fermenter to make more beer!

As to your second question, unless you're aging a long time, don't bother with a secondary. Seriously. You're just making your life more complicated with no benefit.

 

[Coastalbrew]

The longest I've left a beer in primary is 3.5 weeks and it was the best beer I've ever made. I've never done secondary or ever felt the need to transfer to secondary. If you are going for clarity in the beer try cold crashing or fining agents like whirl floc , gelatin, or Irish moss instead of secondary. For me the only reason I'd go to secondary would be for a beer that I wanted to age, like a barley wine.

I listened to an episode of the experimental brewing podcast recently where they addressed this question. One of the fellas said the longest he's ever left a beer in primary was something like 5 or 6 months with no noticable of flavors or other issues.

Good luck, cheers!

 

[Jtvann]

Okay, so there is different opinions on whether to transfer to secondary or not. So one reason I am transferring to the secondary is because I have read that the beer can get a yeasty taste if left on the yeast cake too long. My questions are this:

1 - How long is too long on the yeast cake after primary fermentation has finished?
2 - If I do transfer to secondary, how long can I leave it in socondary? (The reason I ask this is because I want to get a clearer beer and reduce the bottle sediment)

Thank you

Im not sure I've ever heard of any credible reason to get home brew off yeast quickly. Like the guys mentioned above, it will take a specialty beer to need to secondary.

There's a lot of information in a brewery setting to get beer off yeast quicker. They deal with much larger volumes that have pressures exerted on the yeast which can cause it to break down leading to off flavors. We don't have the same pressures or problems in home brew. As one mentioned above, it's actually beneficial to leave beer on yeast longer.

 

[Calder]

Provided the airlock doesn't get dry, you can leave the beer in primary for several months without issue. I have left it 6 months without any problems.

I am one of those dinosaurs who do use a secondary for almost every batch. I like to get the slurry before I add anything, usually gelatin and dry hops in secondary, sometimes fruit or oak or other addition. I run the wort through a screen going into the primary so the trub from the primary is relatively clean. I admit I probably only use the yeast/trub about half the time, but having it available for the next batch is very convenient. It is just my process; never had an issue that I could attribute to using a secondary.

 

[Jag75]

OP , I was taught by an old school beer maker to do secondaries. I was hard headed and refused to stay away from them. So I decided I'm gonna try and see what happens if I dont . Needless to say everything was fine . I was lucky I never got oxidized beer , but I was very meticulous purging with co2 ect... if you really want to get the beer off your yeast cake asap you might look into a conical fermenter. It will allow you to do just that without moving your beer to a different vessel. I leave my beer in the fermenter for 3 weeks . Never once did I have any issue with off flavors. The only time I do secondaries is when I rack over fruit .

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

(The reason I ask this is because I want to get a clearer beer and reduce the bottle sediment)

Cloudy beer: As I understand it, there are numerous reasons for cloudy beer and transferring to a secondary vessel does not fix the problem.

Bottle sediment: As I understand it (and assuming you are currently bottle conditioning), bottle sediment is the side effect of using yeast (in the bottle) to carbonate the beer. I bottle my beer and just leave a little at the bottom of the bottle when pouring.

 

[Deon Botha]

Cloudy beer: As I understand it, there are numerous reasons for cloudy beer and transferring to a secondary vessel does not fix the problem.

Bottle sediment: As I understand it (and assuming you are currently bottle conditioning), bottle sediment is the side effect of using yeast (in the bottle) to carbonate the beer. I bottle my beer and just leave a little at the bottom of the bottle when pouring.

I'm only thinking of going to secondary to get off the yeast. So then I can leave the beer for prolonged period of time in secondary to get a clearer beer and not get a off taste in the beer.

 

[rburrelli]

I'm only thinking of going to secondary to get off the yeast. So then I can leave the beer for prolonged period of time in secondary to get a clearer beer and not get a off taste in the beer.

Did you not listen to everyone else that posted and disputed everything you just said?

Doing that will not necessarily lead to clearer beer and better taste.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

So one reason I am transferring to the secondary is because I have read that the beer can get a yeasty taste if left on the yeast cake too long.

I'm only thinking of going to secondary to get off the yeast. So then I can leave the beer for prolonged period of time in secondary to get a clearer beer and not get a off taste in the beer.

Are you experiencing yeasty flavors in the beers you are currently making?

As I understand it, a yeasty flavor in beer is often due to yeast in suspension. Assuming that this (yeast in suspension) is the correct problem to fix, there are techniques (other than transferring the beer to another container) that can be used to clarify the beer and/or get the yeast to "drop out" of suspension.

 

[Calder]

I'm only thinking of going to secondary to get off the yeast. So then I can leave the beer for prolonged period of time in secondary to get a clearer beer and not get a off taste in the beer.

This is good reasoning; to get clearer beer you want to leave the beer for a long time, but you are worried about off-flavors if you leave it on the yeast for too long.

How long are you wanting to leave the beer before bottling. 8 or 10 weeks ..... leave it in primary, and then bottle. 6 months ..... maybe you should move to primary. Remember, when you rack to secondary, all those light particles that have taken a couple of weeks to almost reach the bottom of the fermenter are mixed back up and have to start all over again; you may have been better just waiting an extra week in the Primary to get clearer beer. Moving to Secondary does not necessarily result in clearer beer.

In the end it is your beer. If you will feel better by moving to secondary, then do it.

 

[mongoose33]

Did you not listen to everyone else that posted and disputed everything you just said?

Doing that will not necessarily lead to clearer beer and better taste.

But he will oxidize the beer unnecessarily and then have that oxidized flavor in the beer; maybe that's what he's going for?

One thing I always have liked about brewing is everybody gets to make their own choices and nobody has to apologize for them (though they may incur some light mocking if they present those choices here). "Do what you want" because in the end, you have only yourself to credit or blame for the results.

So, if it makes @Deon Botha feel better to rack his beer to a secondary after which time he'll wait months in the hope that clearing said beer will result in better tasting beer, then he should do that. It's his beer, he can make it as he likes. And if he doesn't like the advice he's gotten here from experienced brewers, he doesn't have to take that advice.

 

[mongoose33]

One interesting thing about beer flavors--and off flavors--is that not everybody can perceive them. Some hop flavors, for instance, are not perceivable by some people, while others can get them. And the opposite occurs: I really, REALLY do not care for Mosaic hops; it's why I almost always ask for a taster before ordering a pint, to see if Mosaic is in there. That doesn't make me wrong; nor those who like Mosaic wrong; it's just a difference in what we like, and what we can perceive.

I have a friend who has a palate to die for (though it's a double-edged sword). He can taste things I can't, and can pick up on off flavors I might miss. So he gets free beer from me in exchange for being brutally honest about what he is tasting.

I can pick up on oxidized beer; don't care for it. And yet....I believe some people are used to flavors like that and they think it's part of what the beer should be. Same thing with extract twang--some local homebrewers have that in their beer but because it always has that, they think that's what it should taste like.

I usually take, with a grain of salt, claims by people who say "my beer doesn't have that off-flavor." Well, maybe. Maybe they can't perceive it. Or they have low standards for what flavors should be there. Or they just like drinking. It's also possible they're right, that off-flavor is not in there.

So, with the case of OP, perhaps he won't be able to perceive the off flavors. That's actually a positive outcome because to him, it'll be good beer. And in the end, pleasing our own palates is probably the most important criterion.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

My advice to the OP on a secondary is to try it both ways. It would be even more beneficial if you could brew split the same batch and then taste them side by side, but you likely don't have the equipment to support this. See what works for you.

Personally I used a secondary for many years, then moved to not using a secondary and I will never go back. The only secondary I have used in a while is a current batch of Imperial Stout on oak, and even then I could have left it in the primary. There is a bit more stuff in the bottom of the fermenter that I have to watch out for when transferring, but most beers are clear after 2 weeks and I have had no issues with beers in the primary for 3-4 weeks.

I agree with mongoose. I would encourage people to intentionally oxidize a beer. I realized that not all those gold hues and carmely colors in my beers were from the Caramel Malts. A lot of beers that are packaged and shipped across the country have some level of oxidation or stalling that now stands out as an off flavor to me now. I saw a major improvement in my hoppy beers when I took steps to limit cold side oxidation.

 

[Deon Botha]

Did you not listen to everyone else that posted and disputed everything you just said?

Doing that will not necessarily lead to clearer beer and better taste.

Did you not read properly?? I just answered a question on why I initially wanted to go to secondary.

 

[Deon Botha]

But he will oxidize the beer unnecessarily and then have that oxidized flavor in the beer; maybe that's what he's going for?

One thing I always have liked about brewing is everybody gets to make their own choices and nobody has to apologize for them (though they may incur some light mocking if they present those choices here). "Do what you want" because in the end, you have only yourself to credit or blame for the results.

So, if it makes @Deon Botha feel better to rack his beer to a secondary after which time he'll wait months in the hope that clearing said beer will result in better tasting beer, then he should do that. It's his beer, he can make it as he likes. And if he doesn't like the advice he's gotten here from experienced brewers, he doesn't have to take that advice.

I am definitely taking everyone's advice into account, that is why I asked in the first place. Thanks

 

[Deon Botha]

This is good reasoning; to get clearer beer you want to leave the beer for a long time, but you are worried about off-flavors if you leave it on the yeast for too long.

How long are you wanting to leave the beer before bottling. 8 or 10 weeks ..... leave it in primary, and then bottle. 6 months ..... maybe you should move to primary. Remember, when you rack to secondary, all those light particles that have taken a couple of weeks to almost reach the bottom of the fermenter are mixed back up and have to start all over again; you may have been better just waiting an extra week in the Primary to get clearer beer. Moving to Secondary does not necessarily result in clearer beer.

In the end it is your beer. If you will feel better by moving to secondary, then do it.

Thanks

 

[JordanfromOK]

Thanks

In the same boat here.
What direction did you take with your beer? Secondary or not? Did it clear? Did it carb (in bottle)?

 

[JordanfromOK]

Bottled my 34 day long primary cream ale yesterday. Yielded 49.5 12oz beer bottles.

 

[Jag75]

Bottled my 34 day long primary cream ale yesterday. Yielded 49.5 12oz beer bottles.

I noticed your pic in the other thread of you adding priming sugar before you bottled. Have you had any issues doing it that way with oxidation or unequal primed bottles?

 

[JordanfromOK]

I noticed your pic in the other thread of you adding priming sugar before you bottled. Have you had any issues doing it that way with oxidation or unequal primed bottles?

This is my 1st beer. Just stirred carefully while mixing the priming sugar in. Put a lid loosely on while actually filling up bottles.