MLB Playoffs

[Bernie Brewer]

I'm sorry but are they breaking any rules? Any team can spend as much (or as little) as they want. It's not the Yankees fault that some teams are too cheap to field a respectable team. Then again, look at the Twins and A's, small payrolls but competitive, especially the A's! The freakin' Marlins were in contention up until the last couple weeks!

No I never said they were breaking any rules. I did say that I don't have to like it.
And it's not that other teams are too cheap, it's that the Yanks (and a few others) are driving the price up to where no one else can compete. You can get indignant about that comment all you want, but truth is truth. I love the game of baseball, but that aspect of it is really screwed up, maybe beyond repair.

 

[todd_k]

I agree that it's not fair and it's the owners fault for not pushing for a salary cap. I would hate to be a small market team fan when there's no chance you can compete on a year in and year out basis. On the other hand, MLB set a record this year for attendance so why are people in those small markets still going to games when they know it's a broken system?

 

[the_bird]

I'm a Red Sox fan, so I can't complain too loudly about the Yanks' spending patterns.

I DO, however, wish that there was an NFL-type cap in place. I get a lot more pleasure watching the Pats do well than the sox, in part because they are operating on the same playing field as everyone else. It's no fun when half the teams in the league might as well not leave spring training.

 

[Ize]

so why are people in those small markets still going to games when they know it's a broken system?

Because plain and simply baseball is a weird sport. I love it. I'll watch it before the NFL or the NHL, or certainly the NBA any time. (I will watch college hoops. Go Illini) Baseball has been screwy since it began, and to be honest, I think it always will be. To me, to truly understand the game, where it's been and where it's going, watch Ken Burns' "Baseball". It's a decade old now, but it's dead on for explaining why the game is like it is.

As for why people go? They're fans. While it's not a small market by any means, the scrubs drew over 3 million in Chicago this year, the second best in club history. They finished 17 and a half back. It doesn't matter what they put on the field and the owners know it, and THAT is the truly sad part.

Ize

 

[TheJadedDog]

I know the media coverage is totally skewed towards the Sox and the Yankees and I know I'm a Sox fan so people might take this the wrong way and I know the two teams out-spend everyone else, but the Sox and Yankees sell out every game whether they are winning or losing, can KC say the same thing? Can Toronto? Tampa Bay? Small market teams love it when the Sox and Yanks come to play because their ticket sales double and in some cases triple. So why wouldn't ESPN feature the teams with the biggest fan bases? And why wouldn't teams with guaranteed ticket sales spend a ton of money? This is America people, free market capitalism reigns supreme.

 

[rdwj]

but the Sox and Yankees sell out every game whether they are winning or losing, can KC say the same thing? Can Toronto? Tampa Bay? Small market teams love it when the Sox and Yanks come to play because their ticket sales double and in some cases triple. So why wouldn't ESPN feature the teams with the biggest fan bases?

That's not true at all, the Yanks weren't drawing when they weren't winning. They went through a stretch where they weren't doing well at all. There have also been other teams that have had outstanding sell out streaks. The Indians are one of them and they never got the coverage they deserve. There are plenty of others.

The MAIN reason that the Yanks and Red Sox are so popular is ESPN. ESPN focuses on them because they're located on the east coast. If there is ever a decent competitor, ESPN would be in trouble. MOST of the country is forced to watch it because they don't have an alternative for sports.

Trust me - America is SICK to death of the Red Sox v. Yanks hype fest

 

[Rhoobarb]

I know the media coverage is totally skewed towards the Sox and the Yankees and I know I'm a Sox fan so people might take this the wrong way and I know the two teams out-spend everyone else, but the Sox and Yankees sell out every game whether they are winning or losing, can KC say the same thing? Can Toronto? Tampa Bay? Small market teams love it when the Sox and Yanks come to play because their ticket sales double and in some cases triple. So why wouldn't ESPN feature the teams with the biggest fan bases? And why wouldn't teams with guaranteed ticket sales spend a ton of money? This is America people, free market capitalism reigns supreme.

The Cubs sell out most every game - even this season! In a media market bigger than Boston. And they are awful most every season. Yet, if all three teams had relatively equal losing records, I can bet you dollars to donuts that the national media will lead off with "What is the problem with the Yankees or Red Sox?"

 

[Ize]

That's not true at all, the Yanks weren't drawing when they weren't winning. They went through a stretch where they weren't doing well at all. There have also been other teams that have had outstanding sell out streaks. The Indians are one of them and they never got the coverage they deserve. There are plenty of others.

The MAIN reason that the Yanks and Red Sox are so popular is ESPN. ESPN focuses on them because they're located on the east coast. If there is ever a decent competitor, ESPN would be in trouble. MOST of the country is forced to watch it because they don't have an alternative for sports.

Trust me - America is SICK to death of the Red Sox v. Yanks hype fest

Got to agree rd... For a long time the Braves had a ton of people supporting them. Why? Because in cable's younger days TBS was everywhere and Ted had those damn Braves games on all the time. But there's a helluva lot more choice out there now, and to be brutally honest, I don't give a rat's a$$ about ESPN. Period. I hate their announcers, I hate the look, I hate their East Coast bias. I simply don't watch. My loyalty lies with Fox Sports Midwest. They cover the teams I care about. I think a lot of people do in their respective Fox markets. The numbers don't show up tho, because like radio, you can claim ratings all you want, but in the end the numbers are all bulls#$t. People watch what they want to watch.

And I for one could live without ever seeing the Yankees or Red Sox on my tv ever again.


Ize

 

[buckeyemike75]

Oakland is going to win it all

 

[todd_k]

Here we go with the east coast bias. Who had day 2 of the playoffs in the East Coast Bias Pool??? There is no east coast bias. people out west just have more enjoyable things to do, especially during the winter, then sit around and watch sports. If I lived in San Diego or Arizona I sure as hell wouldn't be watching as much sports as I do now. It also doesn't help that west coast games usually start when east coast fans are going to bed. I don't know why people from the mid-west are complaining, you get the best of both worlds.

 

[2nd Street Brewery]

While as a Yankee fan I'll agree the national media focuses too much on those two teams but as it was said they have a fan base that covers the country, they are not regional teams. Go to Florida and Arizona and you have all these relocated New York retirees. The point I want to make is don't hate us because our owners spend the money they have. The Yankees put more money into the luxury tax pool than some of the small market teams spend on thier rosters Look at the Marlins this year, Loria had a payrole of around 18 million. He got more than that from his cut of the luxury tax, same with the owner in Minnesota and he's worth 10 times what Stienbrenner is. So when these teams moan about not having a level playing field it's BS, they just want to pocket the money and they blame the Yankees for everything that's wrong with baseball.

 

[rdwj]

There is no east coast bias. people out west just have more enjoyable things to do,

WOW! You do realize that there is an ENTIRE country between the east and west coast, don't you? The midwest is FULL of HUGE sports fans. And honestly, if you can't see the east coast bias, you're just not looking.

I'll give you a GREAT example from this year. The AL central is as tough as it's ever been this year. It was a three horse race with a 4th team that was a dark horse to get back in it. We had a series where all four teams were going head to head and EVERYONE that cared about baseball in these cities were paying attention. Unfortunately, none of us could watch the games that we were ACTUALLY interested in and in our own division because ESPN was in full fledged Red Sox v. Yankee wall to wall coverage.

They can, and do segment the country when "lesser" games are featured, but if it's east cost, for some reason, they think we care. In truth, it's not that WE care, it's that THEY care, because they LIVE on the east coast and that's what they and the people around them are interested in.

 

[rdwj]

While as a Yankee fan I'll agree the national media focuses too much on those two teams but as it was said they have a fan base that covers the country, they are not regional teams. Go to Florida and Arizona and you have all these relocated New York retirees. The point I want to make is don't hate us because our owners spend the money they have. The Yankees put more money into the luxury tax pool than some of the small market teams spend on thier rosters Look at the Marlins this year, Loria had a payrole of around 18 million. He got more than that from his cut of the luxury tax, same with the owner in Minnesota and he's worth 10 times what Stienbrenner is. So when these teams moan about not having a level playing field it's BS, they just want to pocket the money and they blame the Yankees for everything that's wrong with baseball.

The same can be said of any big city. There are native Chicagoians all over the country as well.

...and I don't hate the Yankees - I'm honestly a bit envious of them. They have the owner that every fan wishes for their team. Stienbrenner is all about winning - making money is secondary. As a fan, you have to respect that. You can hate him for it, but you've got to respect it.

 

[todd_k]

What a shocker, A-Rod strikes out with the basesloaded.

 

[2nd Street Brewery]

What a shocker, A-Rod strikes out with the basesloaded.

Like you expected something else?? I was more shocked that Jeter didn't get the bunt down to move Damon to 2nd.

 

[TheJadedDog]

In truth, it's not that WE care, it's that THEY care, because they LIVE on the east coast and that's what they and the people around them are interested in.

Okay, I have already owned up that there is an East Coast bias, I can see it just as plainly as those of you living in other parts of the country, but it's not because ESPN is located on the East Coast, it's because more people live on the east coast than in the mid-west and so they are skewed towards where the audience size is in order to appeal to advertizers.

I also have to second the comments about owners pocketing their luxury tax dollars, I for one think the rules should be changed so they have to spend that money on their teams, not themselves. I can't imagine what it must be like for fans of small market teams, I mean, Boston fans complain that the Sox don't spend enough compared to the Yankees, meanwhile John Henry and friends are spending many millions more than the next closest competitor and where did it get them?

 

[rdwj]

I also have to second the comments about owners pocketing their luxury tax dollars, I for one think the rules should be changed so they have to spend that money on their teams, not themselves.

Ya, that's total crap. What the Marlins did this year was nothing short of criminal.

 

[the_bird]

I'm in favor of both a salary cap and a minimum payroll. I believe that's what they do in the NBA. Thing is, Player's Union is far too powerful to allow into place anything with teeth to it.

 

[rdwj]

I'm not a fan of caps. They seem to do more harm than good. Too often, you see players leave simply because there is no room for them. In baseball, many leave for money, but you can at least hate them for it.

Also, it would ruin one of the best parts of the season - the big player addition down the stretch!

 

[the_bird]

It just seems lazy to me, in a way, the Sox need another starting pitcher so we'll go buy one this offseason. Now, I know that doesn't guarantee anything, but it sure as hell gives us an advantage over half the teams in the league. A year like this, when we won over half our games, feels like an absolute failure because with out budget, it seems like 95 wins ought to be the standard.

I don't know, honestly, baseball doesn't interest me in the same way as football anyway. I couldn't tell you half the starting lineups of the playoff teams this year. I'd be a TERRIBLE fantasy baseball player next year (hint, hint), unlike the success I have with FFB

 

[rdwj]

I'm just the opposite - I'm a MUCH bigger baseball fan. I love the sport - even have a season ticket plan. That being said, I'd never play fantasy baseball. It would be way too time consumuing to stay on top of all your players. It would be an every-day thing.

I'd be divorced before the season ended for sure.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

I'm not a fan of caps. They seem to do more harm than good. Too often, you see players leave simply because there is no room for them. In baseball, many leave for money, but you can at least hate them for it.

Also, it would ruin one of the best parts of the season - the big player addition down the stretch!

Oh man I totally disagree. The NFL has it figured out as far as caps go. Where would teams like Green Bay or the Vikings be without that and the revenue sharing? The revenue sharing in MLB is a joke-if it wasn't the players' union would never have accepted it. And the luxury tax? Another joke. To the big teams that's just chump change.

And why do people continue to go to games even though the MLB is financially screwed up? IMHO because even with these problems, baseball is still the best game ever invented. You just can't beat a day at the old yard.

 

[pbowler]

Tigers Baby!!!

 

[the_bird]

Even though I know nobody around here other than me likes hoops, the NBA system isn't too bad. The Knicks pay an astronomical amount out in salaries, but they pay a dollar-for-dollar luxury tax on everything above ~ $60M (which means they pay about $50M in tax). There's both a regular cap and a luxury tax threshole, which is essentially a hard-cap; very few teams go over that level. The regular cap allows players to re-sign with their existing teams regardless of whether the team is under the cap or not. There is a fair amount of player movement, but not as bad as in years past and no more than in baseball. And, most teams tend to spend around $45M - $60M.

The NFL system works well, too, but it requires a shift towards signing bonuses and away from guaranteed contracts. Seems more likely that the NBA model would be realistic for MLB (well, not really, because the union is far too strong).

 

[pbowler]

Pistons BABY!!!

 

[todd_k]

Pistons BABY!!!

Your analysis and breakdown of the MLB playoffs is simply amazing.

Anyway..... Fantasy baseball is a PITA. I did it for 2 years and you have to check it daily and change your pitchers, make sure no one is getting a dayoff, it gets old fast.

 

[Ize]

Your analysis and breakdown of the MLB playoffs is simply amazing.

Anyway..... Fantasy baseball is a PITA. I did it for 2 years and you have to check it daily and change your pitchers, make sure no one is getting a dayoff, it gets old fast.

I get into the Baseball Challenge every year on ESPN and I'm done by the All Star Break. I just don't have time to navigate every damn day....

The Birds up 2 to zip and heading back to Busch. I'd seriously like to know where these guys have been the last 2 months of the season. Like I said before tho, I'm not taking anything for granted. I love my team, and have since I was a fetus, but I guess I'll take it the way Albert said... One game at a time.


Ize

 

[pbowler]

Your analysis and breakdown of the MLB playoffs is simply amazing.

Anyway..... Fantasy baseball is a PITA. I did it for 2 years and you have to check it daily and change your pitchers, make sure no one is getting a dayoff, it gets old fast.

Tigers BABY!

 

[rdwj]

Oh man I totally disagree. The NFL has it figured out as far as caps go. Where would teams like Green Bay or the Vikings be without that and the revenue sharing? The revenue sharing in MLB is a joke-if it wasn't the players' union would never have accepted it. And the luxury tax? Another joke. To the big teams that's just chump change.

And why do people continue to go to games even though the MLB is financially screwed up? IMHO because even with these problems, baseball is still the best game ever invented. You just can't beat a day at the old yard.

I agree that they need to do SOMETHING, but I'm just not sure what it is at this point. There has to be a way to let smaller market teams compete without an outright salary cap. And even if they did something like that, there needs to be allowances for stretch runs.

I also agree that baseball is the greatest game ever invented. There is just nothing like it IMHO. I love the fact that it's long season where there is something going on every day and the game isn't bound by time.

 

[Ize]

Carpenter against Woody...

Hoping for some buzz saw action today. :rockin:

I'd like to put this series to bed TODAY please....


That is all.


Ize

 

[Ize]

"That's a winner!"

- Jack

 

[rdwj]

Tigers and A's should be a nice series - both teams have a good staff and both seem to have the fire. I'm really looking forward to it, but can't really decide which team I want to win.

I'm hoping the Cards will win the minor league pennant

 

[andre the giant]

Wow, if you take my "official prediction," replace the spankees with the Detroit Tigers, and replace the line "Cards in 6 games" with "Cards in 5 games..." I might have seemed like a psychic.