Ministry and beer

[petey_c]

The nuns in school used to refer to us as A&P catholics. We'd show up on Ash Wednesday and Palm sunday.

 

[spearko520]

The nuns in school used to refer to us as A&P catholics. We'd show up on Ash Wednesday and Palm sunday.

it's good to get free stuff at church

 

[dfc]

I'm in seminary and a candidate for ordination with the Methodist church. I just received word that I'm receiving an appointment as pastor at a small rural church in NC this upcoming summer. While I have no theological/moral complications with brewing, drinking and being a pastor, I'm wondering what the church I'll be pastoring might think.

Knowing that this is a forum for homebrewers, I'm not expecting anybody on here to have any objections to a minister who brews and drinks. My concern is what would all of your grandmas say about it.

And... discuss.

Unfortunately even though the bible teaches us to act in the exact opposite manner generally Christians are some of the most judgmental people you'll ever deal with.

I used to tour in a Christian punk band. I did so for almost 5 years. Even though punk rockers are extremely judgmental and typically hate spirituality and organized religion we got more crap from the Christians for being punk than we did the punk rockers for being Christian. It's ridiculous. Even though Jesus taught us to love our enemies those who were supposed to be my brothers and sisters treated me much worse than they treated "the enemy".

To this day I still follow the teachings of Christ (to the best of my ability) and I love making and drinking quality beer. However, even though the bible makes several mentions of drinking wine and Jesus even turned water into wine, many Christians will judge you for even mentioning the "Devil's brew" without utter disdain.

Unfortunately I can not speak highly of my brothers and sisters in Christ in this regard. Because of this (especially being in NC) I'd keep this hobby away from the pulpit. That's just my opinion though. Feel free to do as you wish. If you're ever in the Phoenix area doing a sermon let me know. I'll come out if possible.

 

[Homercidal]

Most of the anti alcohol rhetoric spewed today was begat during the time leading up to the prohibition. Until then, most all churches and their congregation had no problem with people drinking in moderation. The Prohibitionists spent quite a lot of energy brainwashing folks into thinking that any kind or amount of alcohol was a sin.

 

[CidCitrus]

Unfortunately even though the bible teaches us to act in the exact opposite manner generally Christians are some of the most judgmental people you'll ever deal with.

I used to tour in a Christian punk band. I did so for almost 5 years. Even though punk rockers are extremely judgmental and typically hate spirituality and organized religion we got more crap from the Christians for being punk than we did the punk rockers for being Christian. It's ridiculous. Even though Jesus taught us to love our enemies those who were supposed to be my brothers and sisters treated me much worse than they treated "the enemy".

To this day I still follow the teachings of Christ (to the best of my ability) and I love making and drinking quality beer. However, even though the bible makes several mentions of drinking wine and Jesus even turned water into wine, many Christians will judge you for even mentioning the "Devil's brew" without utter disdain.

Unfortunately I can not speak highly of my brothers and sisters in Christ in this regard. Because of this (especially being in NC) I'd keep this hobby away from the pulpit. That's just my opinion though. Feel free to do as you wish. If you're ever in the Phoenix area doing a sermon let me know. I'll come out if possible.

You're not Jay from FBS are you?

 

[86turbodsl]

Most of the anti alcohol rhetoric spewed today was begat during the time leading up to the prohibition. Until then, most all churches and their congregation had no problem with people drinking in moderation. The Prohibitionists spent quite a lot of energy brainwashing folks into thinking that any kind or amount of alcohol was a sin.

Very true. And a shame really.

 

[g-star]

I'm just trying to reason with you based on what the scriptures say.

Oh, the irony!

 

[dfc]

You're not Jay from FBS are you?

That's kind of creepy. Please don't kill me.

 

[CidCitrus]

Haha just a little. And I won't kill you, I'm Curt (the bassist) of the Filthy 42s. I read your post, saw you were from the Phoenix area, then saw your name was Jay in your profile. Small world

 

[dfc]

Sweet. I haven't talked to you guys in a while. How have things been? Are you guys still playing? It's definitely a small world.

 

[CidCitrus]

I'll send you a PM to prevent further derailing of the thread

 

[Dan]

OP...

Best wishes and prayers on your journey shepherding God's flock.

Father gave us everything.

Including,

Barley, hops, yeast and water.

Peace and tranquility to you.

IJCIP

 

[stamandster]

deleted post

I see what you're saying. I guess that makes sense...

 

[Agentaaron]

Sorry to bring back such an old thread...

I have been looking for ways to incorporate beer and ministry and came across this thread.

I will say that I obviously see nothing wrong with being of faith and drinking...in moderation. Though I would never choose the best beer in the world over my faith.

I am a chaplain for our local fire department and attend/serve at my local church

I think by now, most people at my church know that I brew my own beer, yet I am still careful who I talk about it in detail...through other ministries here, I have learned that even some of the senior pastoral staff have once struggled with alcohol addiction...and hopelessness and addiction is often times what calls people to seek faith.

Being a chaplain means that I minister outside the walls of the church, when I am out in public...its only water, or other non alcoholic beverages in clearly visible containers. If I happen to be performing a wedding its the same thing...at least until most people have left. (at which point, most still there know that I'm usually the one who supplied the beer everyone drank).

With all that said...I would love some input from others about how your beer focused ministries are

Cheers,

 

[Bierliebhaber]

I would echo the sentiment that beer is something that should be redeemed as a gift from God, not something to be hidden. It's not as if it is in anyway comparable to meat offered to idols. I for one LOVE bacon and thank God for Christ's work that cleansed what was unclean so that it is permissible to enjoy it (in all seriousness, but obviously not as much as my soul). I find it repulsive that some have called unclean what God has never called unclean. While habitual drunkenness is spoken against, God actually instructed the consumption of strong drink in celebration and religious observance. Furthermore, several passages of Scripture would indicate that there are very appropriate times to indulge in some mild alcohol merriment (e.g. weddings and celebratory feasts).

All that said/repeated, I have led theological discussion groups that met weekly in a pub. I found topics that may have normally been awkward, tense, or controversial were discussed more even tempered in the atmosphere of a group gathering around to share a pint. Also, I have considered doing a how-to-brew group, where I teach people how to brew and use the elements of brewing as spiritual or discipleship metaphors. I think there are some very cool lessons that can be illustrated through brewing principles.

 

[DrummerBoySeth]

I, too, have been wondering if there was a good way to use this hobby as a way to advance the work of God. I currently share the spoils of my brewing labors with several men from my Church, but we enjoy the brew on a strictly secular level right now. I have thought about inviting the men from my men's fellowship for a brew-day, but I have no idea how many of them (other than a select few) that might share that interest. Any ideas about how to combine ministry and beer in an honest, Christ-centered way would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Pappers_]

I provide the beer and cider for two events at our church, the summer garden party and the autumn steak fry.

 

[RainyDay]

All my after church functions/community groups are over drinks (mostly beer). I believe it was Calvin that worked in a few hundred gallons of winer per year into his salary (may have been Luther). I take my faith very seriously and praise God for beer and fine spirits (in moderation of course - most of the time anyway...)!

 

[Chadwick]

I agree that this is a touchy subject. It shouldn't be but it is. As a once catholic turned baptist turned pentacostal turned athiest turned non-denominational, I suggest simply following the path you feel is right.

We all walk the same earth but everyones life is a different trial with different reasons and purposes. It simply isn't a black and white matter and nothing in this world is. All things are shades of gray. The color turns darker or lighter depending on the company present.

If your new church has several recovering alcoholics that find strength everyday in their religion...well. You see, it may not be just about granny. On the other hand, you might find a bunch of folks that also enjoy homebrewing and no recovering alcoholics.

 

[Cyclman]

I'm Lutheran, very involved with my church, so I don't face this issue but certainly understand this difficulty. I loved the local Methodist church, but could not ethically join a church that has an anti-alcohol stance.

Funny story, my brother in law joined his wife's baptist church many years ago, didn't realize they are anti-alcohol. He was very confused as to why nobody at his first church party would drink the very nice wine he had bought. Doh!

 

[RedGuitar]

Out of curiosity, if those who have suggested using home brewing as a setting for Bible study or a metaphor for spiritual things, what specifically would you point out to discuss?

 

[BoomerRox]

RedGuitar - How did things workout with your congregation in NC accepting your hobby? I'm a Methodist also. My parents were Methodists (in Michigan), they were married in a Methodist church, I was born in a Methodist hospital, I graduated from a Methodist college and of course now me and my wife are members of a Methodist church here in California. However, if I thought my church would have a problem with my homebrew hobby, I'd go Presbyterian.

 

[tmoney645]

I think the main issue is knowing the people you share your hobby with well. Alcohol is a strong vice in a lot of people's life, and the bible does speak about not being a "stumbling block". I share my home brew with a few people in my Church, but I got to know them well before we starting drinking together at all.

 

[zmanzorro]

In college, my campus pastor was a homebrewer and we would have a bible study at a local pub, and we'd call it Theological Pub. It was always a laid back atmosphere and kind of a time to relax and have a spiritual discussion.

 

[m1k3]

I would not mix ministry with beer/brewing.... or anything else.

When I was saved I was DJing Raves in LA. After I quit, I tried DJing for 'Christian' events. God was not honored through that.

I don't discuss beer or brewing with anyone at Church. I can't imagine anything positive would result.

http://www.gty.org/blog/b110809

 

[Walking_Target]

There's more than a few monasteries in europe with brewing histories of anywhere from 400 to 900 years.

'nuff said.

 

[ACbrewer]

I would not mix ministry with beer/brewing.... or anything else.

When I was saved I was DJing Raves in LA. After I quit, I tried DJing for 'Christian' events. God was not honored through that.

I don't discuss beer or brewing with anyone at Church. I can't imagine anything positive would result.

http://www.gty.org/blog/b110809

interesting link m1k3, but I'm not sure that advocating against drinking is going to work here, unless the link is more against mixing drink and ministry (like advice against drinking and doing things that require concentration and motor control).

With that said, I think there is good reason to mix ministry with daily living - eg work and eating. but that is another topic.

 

[Bierliebhaber]

We are treading dangerous ground if we try to compartmentalize our lives. For a person living an authentic life of Christian faith their life is ministry. If you're going to have beer as a hobby, as well, it will by nature of your life be present in ministry at some point.

Do I not talk about cake because someone is obese?
Do I using a credit card around those addicted to shopping or consumerism?
Do I not talk about work because some are workaholics?
Do I not talk about healthy sexual relationships in front of those addicted to sex?
Do I avoid letting anyone at church see my laptop because some are porn addicts?

When was the last time tables were turn upside down because a fat congregation brought greasy, fattening food to a potluck and gorged themselves?

Scripture instructs us to enjoy our spouse' body.
...to enjoy food.
...to enjoy the product of our labor.
All of these enjoyed in the proper context and within reason.

There are times to enjoy sex and times to abstain.
...times to enjoy food, even indulge in feasting, and times to abstain.
...times to work and times to rest.

The SAME goes for beer and/or other alcohol beverages. They are to be enjoyed, as appropriate. The consumption of food and alcohol as a means of celebration CAN BE and ARE modes of worship.

I grow exceedingly tired of the exploitation of the "stumbling block" excuse. This refers to weakness in knowledge and understanding that may result in a crisis of faith. This does not refer self-control. I have little patience for those who have been christians for years and claim someone is a stumbling block to them. If this were somehow the case, they would be self-professed perpetually weak in their faith. Anyways, this stance or argument has been abused for far too long.

A bit of a rant...apologies!

 

[bottlebomber]

We are treading dangerous ground if we try to compartmentalize our lives. For a person living an authentic life of Christian faith their life is ministry. If you're going to have beer as a hobby, as well, it will by nature of your life be present in ministry at some point.

Do I not talk about cake because someone is obese?
Do I using a credit card around those addicted to shopping or consumerism?
Do I not talk about work because some are workaholics?
Do I not talk about healthy sexual relationships in front of those addicted to sex?
Do I avoid letting anyone at church see my laptop because some are porn addicts?

When was the last time tables were turn upside down because a fat congregation brought greasy, fattening food to a potluck and gorged themselves?

Scripture instructs us to enjoy our spouse' body.
...to enjoy food.
...to enjoy the product of our labor.
All of these enjoyed in the proper context and within reason.

There are times to enjoy sex and times to abstain.
...times to enjoy food, even indulge in feasting, and times to abstain.
...times to work and times to rest.

The SAME goes for beer and/or other alcohol beverages. They are to be enjoyed, as appropriate. The consumption of food and alcohol as a means of celebration CAN BE and ARE modes of worship.

I grow exceedingly tired of the exploitation of the "stumbling block" excuse. This refers to weakness in knowledge and understanding that may result in a crisis of faith. This does not refer self-control. I have little patience for those who have been christians for years and claim someone is a stumbling block to them. If this were somehow the case, they would be self-professed perpetually weak in their faith. Anyways, this stance or argument has been abused for far too long.

A bit of a rant...apologies!

So do you also feel that it's appropriate to integrate sexual activities with worship? Because to me, service to God is in itself a joyous and sacred thing and need not be mingled with fleshly pleasures such as drinking alcohol. In fact is is mentioned in the bible “Do not drink wine or intoxicating liquor, you and your sons with you, when YOU come into the tent of meeting". A bit of a rant... Apologies

 

[alestateyall]

I will be serving 10 gallons of home brew at a Knights of Columbus Social on May 3. I am hoping homebrew will get the attention of some younger dads and maybe a few of them will join up.

My homebrew club brews for a local Episcopal church's Octoberfest. The party has a cover charge and the church makes thousands of dollars from the whole event (more than just beer).