Minimum Kettle Size for Brew In a Bag?

[TXCrash]

This link shows what I'm talking about

Say I was going to brew EdWorts Bavarian Heff (11 lb grain bill) or EdWorts Pale haus Ale (10.5 lb grain bill).

I have a 7.5 gallon kettle - which is adequate for a 5 gallon full volume boil. I plan on getting a bigger aluminum kettle in janruary if nescessary but would like to try stepping past extract... (can't afford SS, current kettle is SS though...) Burner is a freaking rocket...

So question - with a 7.5 gallon kettle and using the BIAB method, what's the maximum grain bill I can look at?

Please excuse any scentences that make no sense - wicked wanda has kicked my ass... (apparently I screwed up the ABV calculation or I'm a fat lightweight)

 

[WBC]

10 to 12 gallons but 15 is better etc.

 

[Kilgore_Trout]

The pot needs to hold your grains and ALL the water you would normally use for mash & sparge. 7.5gal isn't going to cut it, maybe if you did two small batches instead of one big one?

 

[Orfy]

I would strongly recommend putting your efforts into getting hold of a keg.
You'll pretty much be set for any 5 gallon batch you want to do.

 

[TXCrash]

Ok - so I've verified my belief that my brewpot is too small to use for AG by any means...

So I'll need a new brewpot...

I've looked for kegs around here and they are hard to find... When ya do find em, they are ridiculously priced (scrap yard wants $80)

For the same 80 I can get this 20 gallon aluminum brewpot (in portland, an hour and a half north of me) - which'd set me up for all 5 gallon AG batches and most if not all 10 gallon batches... right?

 

[mattmcl]

FYI, Austin Homebrew has 10 gallon steel pots for $70...

 

[gabeweisz]

I've done it a few times with a 7.5 gallon kettle - but I do drain the bag into a bucket that has additional water and dunk the bag in there a few times, so I'm cheating a bit.

 

[Orfy]

Ok - so I've verified my belief that my brewpot is too small to use for AG by any means...

So I'll need a new brewpot...

I've looked for kegs around here and they are hard to find... When ya do find em, they are ridiculously priced (scrap yard wants $80)

For the same 80 I can get this 20 gallon aluminum brewpot (in portland, an hour and a half north of me) - which'd set me up for all 5 gallon AG batches and most if not all 10 gallon batches... right?

Looks good to me.
I'm lucky and found a cheap source for kegs.

 

[craigd]

Here's how I determined my 8 gallon pot wouldn't suffice for BIAB:

1. Took all my grains and put them in a very tightly closed waterproof bag and put them in my brew pot.
2. Added my water amount equivalent to my mash water.
3. started adding water amount equivalent to sparge water.
4. Was almost 2 gallons short before water hit the rim. Knowing the grains would absorb some and water would fill in space between grains it was still going to be short.

I ended up using Deathbrewer's stovetop AG method which let me do it with what I had on hand. For his method you don't need quite as much space in the kettle. I ended up boiling 5G down to 4G and adding water to top off but I actually had enough room for 6G which I will do next time.

 

[lustreking]

The pot needs to hold your grains and ALL the water you would normally use for mash & sparge. 7.5gal isn't going to cut it, maybe if you did two small batches instead of one big one?

When I do a BiaB, I use a 7.5 gallon pot. I don't do a full volume mash like the original BiaB thread suggests. I usually only mash in with about 5 gallons or so of water, and then top off to my pre boil volume after lautering. This has always resulted in excellent beer, and allows me to mash bigger grain bills that I normally would be able to if I had done a full volume mash. I've never done any really "big" beers with BiaB though. I'll pull out my "real" system for them.

edit: I probably didn't stress that a 7.5 gallon pot is not ideal, especially for a 90 minute boil, however, it *is* possible to make it work.

 

[craigd]

Lustreking, do you measure your efficiency doing it that way? I just did a stovetop AG which is pretty close to that but my eff was pretty low - around 60%. I'm trying to determine if that's what I should expect in the future or if it's a fluke of my inexperience... Also not sure I could have managed 5G in the 8G kettle along with my 10.5 lbs of grain.

 

[lustreking]

Lustreking, do you measure your efficiency doing it that way?

I generally get 75% efficiency.

 

[TXCrash]

Soo... Lustreking... what's the largest grain bill you've pulled off in the 7.5 gal pot?

I already KNEW it was far from ideal to use the 7.5... but the sooner I can go AG...

And so just to clarify the way you use the 7.5 BIAB method..

Heat water to strike temp, add bag (before or after heating)
Add grain, let mash in for desired time
Raise temp to mash out, put bag of grains in colander or otherwise suspend to let drain
I suspose that if water needed to be added anyways at this point "sparge water" could slowly be poured over the bag if extra volume was needed... right?
Boil as normal (for extract brewers)

Regardless of the way ya do it, does the above sound like a workable plan? I have everything but the bag (including a freaking monster colander that'd hold the grain bag perfectly...)

 

[lustreking]

I'll have to check when I get home to see the biggest grain bill that I've brewed. I don't think that I've done more than 10 lbs, but that doesn't mean that bigger is impossible. I know I've brewed one beer that had an OG of around 1.070, but that wasn't a 5 gallon batch.

The process that you describe is exactly what I do. I put the bag in after I get it to temperature. Although I've never had any issues with the bag melting, I don't really want to chance it. When I'm applying heat to raise the temperature of the mash, I'm constantly stirring it. That wouldn't be much fun while waiting for it to come to 150º. I use a couple binder clips to hold the bag on the top of the kettle.

I suppose that you could use the top off water as sparge water, but I wouldn't bother. You'd need a separate pot to heat it up, and I'd probably end up spilling more of it than I'd actually get in the pot. With the BiaB process, a sparge is not necessary.

For a bag, I bought a sheer curtain from Walmart for around $6. This is enough material for at least two bags.

I wouldn't hesitate to make a bag for your current pot and try out the process. You won't lose much if you then decide that you want to buy a bigger bot.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

[lustreking]

Soo... Lustreking... what's the largest grain bill you've pulled off in the 7.5 gal pot?

Sorry, forgot about checking. The largest grain bill that I've mashed was 9.3 lbs, but that doesn't mean that's the limit though.

 

[DeathBrewer]

all you need is another 5 gallon pot (or so)

read the partial mash link in my sig.

 

[TXCrash]

I've read it, but it requires 2 things I don't have - a second burner and a second 5 gallon pot. Brewing in the kitchen is something that just wont happen in this house (don't get me started...). That said, If the single pot BIAB method fails for me, I may try your partial mash method - but for my situation a pot big enough to hold more grain will probably be the best solution unless there's something I missed.

Reading over that I realize I sound somewhat dismissive - don't take it as such. My pre coffee brain can't figure out how to better phrase it.

all you need is another 5 gallon pot (or so)

read the partial mash link in my sig.

 

[DeathBrewer]

it does not require a second burner. you only heat the pots one at a time.

you heat your mash water and mash in.

then you heat your sparge water while you are mashing

then you boil your wort after your sparge is finished

and how in the world does a 7.5 gallon pot not work for mashing an 11 lb batch??

 

[TXCrash]

Guess I need to go back and re-read that thread....

<<< NEWB

 

[DeathBrewer]

i'm assuming you were attempting the no-sparge BIAB. you can still do this with the equipment you have. I'd suggest a combination of "splash sparge" and "no-sparge"

do you have any smaller pots? 3 gallon pot, or maybe two 2 gallon pots? if so, try this:

1. use 5.5 gallons of water to mash in your 7.5 gallon pot. that is exactly 2qt/lb of grain and will still give you about an inch of headspace in your pot.
2. heat up an additional 2 gallons of water (use your burner or stove) to 185°F or so
3. hoist the bag and let everything drip out
3. stick the grains in a colander or something and pour the 2 gallons of water over the grains and into your brew pot.

the nice thing

and sorry, i meant to look at my stovetop AG thread. part of it explains that it is actually better to use a smaller pot for the first mash.

if you used the standard 1.25qt/lb for 11 lbs of grain, that would be roughly 3.5 gallons of water. after adding your grain, this will be a little over 4 gallons. this is actually beneficial because there will be very little heat loss due to the small amount of head space.

you'll have a start of over 6 gallons and you'll probably get decent efficiency.

 

[DeathBrewer]

all that being said, don't let me discourage you from getting the equipment you want. a keg mash tun (keggle), cooler or a bigger pot is never a bad investment

 

[TXCrash]

If only I could convince my landlord of that...

"really - I made a good investment - that's why I can't pay rent this month ;-)"

And I haven't attempted AG yet, just two extract (a wheat and a pale ale) with steeping grains (Despite the fact that I've been a member for a long time I haven't been brewing or posting till a little over a month ago).

I do have another biggish pot (20-30 qt pressure cooker) that I can use if I can clean it up enough (failed HUGE batch of rice a couple years back... pot hasn't been used since...) Even oxyclean (which I guess ya aren't supposed to use on AL?) is having issues with that mess... Maybe an OD of oxyclean then an hour boil to build the layer of aluminum oxide back up...

And I have a massive colander that'll get used for holding the draining grains - and I picked up the voile last night at joanns...

The splash sparge thing is probably what I'll do... I'm sure I'll figure SOMETHING out... Or would "tea sparging" (dunking the grain bag in the hot sparge water) be effective?

Screw it - 'nuff talking bout it (but I appreciate any pointers), I'll try something (taking notes in my head and adjusting processes as I go) and the worst that'll happen is I'll learn something and have something that's still better than american fizz water to drink...

Now I need to figure out what I wanna brew this weekend...

all that being said, don't let me discourage you from getting the equipment you want. a keg mash tun (keggle), cooler or a bigger pot is never a bad investment

 

[TXCrash]

I promise - I really do know how to read ;-)

What I was thinking of is almost exactly what DB was talking about......

Farking illiterate noobs! (me)