Mini mash vs. All grain - Mini Mash wins

[The Pol]

This hobby is taken way too seriously I think.

Doesnt matter how anyone does it, doesnt matter if thier beer is crap, as long as they like it.

We love to debate those things that we cannot debate, because they are subjective and different for each individual. One dude thinks it is GREAT to brew hands off, it is the "best way". Another dude thinks it is GREAT to brew totallyhands on, it is the "best way".... now try convincing each other. Basically, we are bored.

This is why I love the threads that start with "what is the best way to...." Because 10 different people, have 10 different "best" ways. It is a hobby, a very personalized one at that, there is no best way, just mine and yours.

 

[davesrose]

This is why I love the threads that start with "what is the best way to...." Because 10 different people, have 10 different "best" ways. It is a hobby, a very personalized one at that, there is no best way, just mine and yours.

Amen bro, amen

When it comes to this pointless debate, I do think best tasting beers stem from the ability of the brewer. You can make a great beer with extracts, PM, or AG just as well as you can make a crappy beer out of extracts, PM, or AG. I know I've had some great beer from extract just as I have had lousy AG beer. I've never equated it as being whether the ingredients were AG or extract. Since much of the variables of good beer stem from your process and fermentation, I've equated bad tasting beers to being more the inabilities of the brewer.

I mainly brew AG simply because I know I can get consistant ingredients and can be more flexible: the only real difference between AG and extract is that with extract, you're relying on the company making the malt extract to be using good ingredients and have their process down. My friends and family have said that I make the best beer they've ever had: and they started saying that when I was an extract brewer, and still say that now that I'm an AG brewer.

 

[samc]

AG for me is more clean up time
PM is easier but I enjoy the AG process too much to go back to PM

Now that my pumps are up and running I have sped up the process and clean up is easier since I started dumping the grains in the yard (birds like me better now)

IMO when the Wort hits the fermenter is when the real difference takes place between a good, bad & great brewer. Sanitation - temperature control - aeration - proper yeast pitching and patience. These are the things that have made my beers better.

 

[Saccharomyces]

My favorite PM method I've run across so far is Chris Colby's method but I've never tried it... having 300# of grain in a storage unit tends to keep one from wanting to use extract. Maybe one of these days I'll try it and post a thread. The guy makes some great beers, and many of them are extract + steeping grains. I would never be able to tell if he didn't tell...

 

[bferullo]

This hobby is taken way too seriously I think.

Doesnt matter how anyone does it, doesnt matter if thier beer is crap, as long as they like it.

We love to debate those things that we cannot debate, because they are subjective and different for each individual. One dude thinks it is GREAT to brew hands off, it is the "best way". Another dude thinks it is GREAT to brew totallyhands on, it is the "best way".... now try convincing each other. Basically, we are bored.

This is why I love the threads that start with "what is the best way to...." Because 10 different people, have 10 different "best" ways. It is a hobby, a very personalized one at that, there is no best way, just mine and yours.

well said, but I still enjoy reading all the threads. I usually "hidge-podge" my techniques. I read what one person does and then compare to this person and then try to see how to get the best of all worlds.

 

[ChickenSoop]

I just did my first AG. It was a bit more work, but it was much more fun, and the extra degree of control is worth it. With some research, I even changed the chemistry of my RO water to hit a water profile.

My first AG efficiency was only 65%, so I had to cheat and pitch an extra pound of extract to bring up the OG.

So the most work is in making your Tun,and then tuning it in.

 

[bob1852]

This is why I love the threads that start with "what is the best way to...." Because 10 different people, have 10 different "best" ways. It is a hobby, a very personalized one at that, there is no best way, just mine and yours.

now if you do AG with dry yeast and PM with liquid yeast, which beer comes out better?

very good points though Pol....

 

[agroff383]

This hobby is taken way too seriously I think.

Doesnt matter how anyone does it, doesnt matter if thier beer is crap, as long as they like it.

We love to debate those things that we cannot debate, because they are subjective and different for each individual. One dude thinks it is GREAT to brew hands off, it is the "best way". Another dude thinks it is GREAT to brew totallyhands on, it is the "best way".... now try convincing each other. Basically, we are bored.

This is why I love the threads that start with "what is the best way to...." Because 10 different people, have 10 different "best" ways. It is a hobby, a very personalized one at that, there is no best way, just mine and yours.

Agreed. As a novice I have posted questions like that and got a bunch of great answers I never thought of. But I do think some take it too seriously, but at the same time, I want to keep improving my product and I know some aren't as concerned about that.

 

[cjmcfoot]

The one variable I have that is consistent is ME. I ferment the AG and the PM the same with the same conditioning schedule, and one thing I can say with confidence is that the AG brews that I, MYSELF, and ME make is much better than the PM.
However my dad makes a PM brew that is fantastic. So I think perhaps you should stick with what works best for YOU. "If it ain't broke don't fix it"
If you are so inclined you could try both, most recipes have both versions available. I have personally tried the same batch both ways and the AG was in MY opinion better.
RDWHAHB ya know.

 

[TexLaw]

With the quality of extracts out there these days, there's no good reason why a PM or extract/steeping brewer cannot brew a mighty fine, award-winning beer that could make an AG brewer jealous.

Oddly enough, most problems I encounter from AG brewers stem from the brewer acting carelessly or trying to take shortcuts. Careless performance will affect an AG beer much more than a PM one, as well failed shortcuts.

It is a hobby, so do what you like. I like AG brewing, and I take the care to do it with enough care to get the beer I like. I also make my own roux and take the care to do it right.


TL

 

[KayaBrew]

Just to fan the flames a little, I made A LOT of extract beers that were way better than commercial micros and my own AG beers. I just like the satisfaction of "making it from scratch".

 

[Baldy_Beer_Brewery]

Using the logic in the OP... If PM makes better beer than AG, then wouldn't extract be better than PM?

One of my best beers ever was a PM Witbier. Not because it was a PM, but because I had a very good fermentation temperature. Everything was just right and the conditions were very good for fermenting such a beer.

IMHO, as long as everything goes halfway fine on brewday you will be more than halfway OK. Fark up your fermentation and you'll look at some less than great beer.

 

[Clayton]

i wonder if the guys that make the extract do AG?
who knows
i wounder if the ag that you dont like whould have been better with a longer boil
as extract beer is twices boiled

 

[beermanbob]

Hello everyone! I'm a noob to homebrewtalk.com and home brewing. However, I did brew a batch with a Mr Beer a few years back. Which turned out great if you ask me. It was almost a Blue Moon from what the old lady said. Not what I was going for but all of my friends liked it. lol Anyway... I posting on this thread because I wanted to know whether All Grain or Partial Mash brewing would be the better road to take with my first batch.

 

[Beernik]

All AG really gives you that PM and extract doesn't is more control. If your just are just starting out, you don't know what to do with the control it gives you.

My analogy is:
#1. Mr. Beer is like Speghetti-Os.
#2. Extract is like cooking can of pasta sauce and speghetti noodles.
#3. PM is like adding extra ingredients to personalize the flavor of #2.
#4. AG is like making both the noodles and sauce from scratch.

Also, there is a lot of up front equipment costs with all grain. I'd recommend starting extract or PM. As you get a better understanding of what you are doing, step up your equipment purchases for AG.

 

[Erythro73]

All AG really gives you that PM and extract doesn't is more control. If your just are just starting out, you don't know what to do with the control it gives you.

My analogy is:
#1. Mr. Beer is like Speghetti-Os.
#2. Extract is like cooking can of pasta sauce and speghetti noodles.
#3. PM is like adding extra ingredients to personalize the flavor of #2.
#4. AG is like making both the noodles and sauce from scratch.

Also, there is a lot of up front equipment costs with all grain. I'd recommend starting extract or PM. As you get a better understanding of what you are doing, step up your equipment purchases for AG.

I would like to correct your analogy, good sir, because I feel like it's not accurate. OK, I may be playing with words here, but I feel this is more accurate: .

#1. Mr. Beer is like Speghetti-Os.
#2. Extract is like cooking can of pasta sauce and speghetti noodles.
#3. Extract + steeping specialty grain is like adding extra ingredients to personalize the flavor of #2. Think about some herbs and spices.
#4. PM is like adding more ingredients and using a mix of your tomatoes and tomato sauce you bought in a store (you're using already-made tomato sauce as a base and you add your tomatoes to add some more freshness). You also add herbs and spices.
#5. AG is like making both the noodles and sauce from scratch.

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Just to be sure... is mini-mash and partial mash the same thing?

 

[rexbanner]

This hobby is taken way too seriously I think.

Doesnt matter how anyone does it, doesnt matter if thier beer is crap, as long as they like it.

We love to debate those things that we cannot debate, because they are subjective and different for each individual. One dude thinks it is GREAT to brew hands off, it is the "best way". Another dude thinks it is GREAT to brew totallyhands on, it is the "best way".... now try convincing each other. Basically, we are bored.

This is why I love the threads that start with "what is the best way to...." Because 10 different people, have 10 different "best" ways. It is a hobby, a very personalized one at that, there is no best way, just mine and yours.

That's honestly the thing I love about it the most. When I brew, I am the captain of the ship for once. It's my prerogative when something goes wrong or a tough decision has to be made. No one gets to tell me what to do. I wish I could do this for a living.

 

[BigdogMark]

This is just my opinion, but...

Until we got control over our water profile, our extract and partial mash brews were better than our AG attempts. There has been a lot of speculation as to the reasons, but we got consistent off flavors that disappeared when we adjusted our water profile. Since that effort we have made very enjoyable views, and moved on to experimenting with hop additions, timing, etc. I really believe the water is critical in all grain brewing, and most of the information on water profiles are pure rubish.

End of personal rant...

 

[beermanbob]

Thank you everyone for your input on AG and PM. I'm going to go with PM for my first shot at brewing. Not sure what I'm going to do yet but I'll post back once I've given it a shot to let everyone know how it turned out.

Thanks again