Midwest's Bavarian Doppelbock packet of champagne yeast

[myerstyson]

So I brewed Midwest's Doppelbock extract kit a while back (sked below). The kit came with an extra packet of yeast, champagne yeast. I asked Midwest how to use it and they told me to use it during bottling. I asked if I had to use the entire packet. They simply said: "You will not need an entire packet of yeast for carbonation. A half packet should suffice."

Just doesn't see exacting enough. Is there some way to ensure I'm using the correct amount of this yeast? Based on FG and volume, perhaps? I don't want bottle bombs. I'd like to bottle here in a week to 10 days. What do you guys think?

Here's my sked for the brew:
21 Dec: brew day, 1.087 OG (right on target); in my beer room at 70* until
24 Dec: Moved to my cold room (55*) until
2 Jan: Back in beer room for diacetyl rest at 70* until
3 Jan: racked to secondary, gravity 1.030 (high end for FG target, so I don't think it was done fermenting), carboy into fridge at 45* and then slowly over 5 days down to 34*.

 

[ColoHox]

The measure that needs to be exacting to avoid bottle bombs is the amount of sugar you use to carbonate (and your FG).

If your beer is finished and ready to be carbed, eg. stable FG over a few days, then carefully measure out your sugar, and mix it and half a packet of yeast into your bottling bucket. You probably don't need additional yeast, as there is usually enough remaining in suspension to carbonate, but it certainly won't hurt anything, and makes for a more reliable process.

Your reported final gravity seems pretty high. What yeast did you use for primary fermentation? It looks like you got around 66% attenuation, which could be low or okay, depending on your yeast choice. In hindsight, you probably should not have racked to secondary until your beer was at FG. Cold crashing then bottling a beer with remaining fermentable sugars is a recipe for a stuck fermentation and bottle bombs, respectively.

The normal schedule for lagers is: primary ferm at 40-60F (depending on the yeast) for a few weeks, D-rest when gravity reaches 1.010-1.020 (depending on the beer), then extended lagering at <40F. It seems like you tried to push this through your pipeline a bit too quickly.

My suggestion would be to warm it back up, swirl to rouse the yeast, and see if you can knock a few more points off the FG before you bottle. Otherwise, remaining fermentables+bottling sugar=bottle bombs.

 

[myerstyson]

The measure that needs to be exacting to avoid bottle bombs is the amount of sugar you use to carbonate (and your FG).

If your beer is finished and ready to be carbed, eg. stable FG over a few days, then carefully measure out your sugar, and mix it and half a packet of yeast into your bottling bucket. You probably don't need additional yeast, as there is usually enough remaining in suspension to carbonate, but it certainly won't hurt anything, and makes for a more reliable process.

Your reported final gravity seems pretty high. What yeast did you use for primary fermentation? It looks like you got around 66% attenuation, which could be low or okay, depending on your yeast choice. In hindsight, you probably should not have racked to secondary until your beer was at FG. Cold crashing then bottling a beer with remaining fermentable sugars is a recipe for a stuck fermentation and bottle bombs, respectively.

The normal schedule for lagers is: primary ferm at 40-60F (depending on the yeast) for a few weeks, D-rest when gravity reaches 1.010-1.020 (depending on the beer), then extended lagering at <40F. It seems like you tried to push this through your pipeline a bit too quickly.

My suggestion would be to warm it back up, swirl to rouse the yeast, and see if you can knock a few more points off the FG before you bottle. Otherwise, remaining fermentables+bottling sugar=bottle bombs.

Thanks! I was following Midwest's less-than-clear instructions. I used S-23 yeast (I can't ship liquids to my location and S-23 was the store's recommended dry yeast).

Midwest's instructions called for 1-3 days in a warm area 60-65 (I could only manage 70). (I got bubbles galore.) Then they say to move it to a cool area (48-60), so I moved it to my cool room which is in the 50-55* area. It said to leave it there 7-10 days, which I did, then it says to set it in a warm room for 24 hours for the rest. Instructions then say to rack to secondary and put it in the fridge.

I'll take it out and swirl it around as you suggest, and see if I can get some more fermentation out of it.

I just made their Maibock and the instructions are exactly the same. The Maibock is now in my 70* room bubbling away happily. Do you think I should move it to my cold room immediately? (I used the S-23 yeast again.)

 

[myerstyson]

@ColoHox, Sure enough, my doppelbock is bubbling about 3-4 per min in my 55* room.

Now to worry about the Maibock.

 

[GenIke]

Excess yeast wouldnt cause bottle bombs without the presence of excess sugar. You could add five packs of yeast and they wouldnt cause bottle bombs without excess sugar.

I assume that the instructions on a dopplebock have an extended lagering period. This means a long time for the yeast to stay at peak health. Midwest gave you an extra packet of yeast to ensure you have some healthy yeast to consume your priming sugar and carb your bottles.

 

[ColoHox]

@ColoHox, Sure enough, my doppelbock is bubbling about 3-4 per min in my 55* room.

Now to worry about the Maibock.

What is the SG/FG for the Maibock, and which yeast? You should probably start cooling the guy down.

 

[myerstyson]

What is the SG/FG for the Maibock, and which yeast? You should probably start cooling the guy down.

Recipe says 1.064-1.066 and FG of 1.012-1.014. I used S-23.

 

[ColoHox]

Recipe says 1.064-1.066 and FG of 1.012-1.014. I used S-23.

The kit directions are a little arbitrary sometimes. As you brew more often, you will learn how to tailor your fermentation to the particular beer.

S-23 prefers lower temperature growth, similar to the other lager strains.

Some people will "hot start" their lager yeast, eg. pitch into warm wort, let it get going, then slowly drop the temps down to the preferred range for the yeast.

In order to get the flavors you are looking for for a particular style, you need to provide the yeast with the proper environment.

The common lager schedule is:
Warm start (if you'd like), 60-65F for 1-2 days;
Drop temperature to primary ferm temp, 53-59F (for S-23) for a few weeks-ish;
Increase temp for D-rest once your gravity has dropped by 75%;
Transfer the beer and start extended lagering at <35F.

How long has your maibock been at 70F? A warm primary fermentation for a lager will give you more ester production and a fuller, maybe fruity finish, instead of the usual crisp finish. But, that profile might be okay in your maibock. My suggestion would be to cool it down to the mid 50s if you can. If you are close to FG, you might as well ride it out, bottle (or keg), then increase your lagering time (maybe by a few months).

 

[myerstyson]

@ColoHox, thanks!

My Maibock was in a 70* room for only 2.5 days. I moved it after work yesterday to my ~55* room.

Funny, that sked I followed for my doppelbock. Gravity was down to 1.030 (recipe said 1.030-1.020) so I racked to carboy and put it in the fridge. Was in the fridge for 5 weeks before someone suggested taking it out and swirling it and putting it in my 55* room. Now I'm getting a few bubbles a minute.

Lagers confuse me, and this "cool room" will go away as the warm weather comes, so perhaps after this Maibock I'll stick to ales.

Thanks again!

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Lagers confuse me, and this "cool room" will go away as the warm weather comes, so perhaps after this Maibock I'll stick to ales.

I would even expand that and unless you are in possession of a room capable of about 63F consistently, I would choose my ale yeast carefully, too.

 

[myerstyson]

Dammit. Broke my hydrometer in my carboy. Had to dump the entire batch. Sad.
Going to update my signature block now.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Dammit. Broke my hydrometer in my carboy. Had to dump the entire batch. Sad.
Going to update my signature block now.

Filter it through a coffee filter.

 

[myerstyson]

Filter it through a coffee filter.

Dammit. Wish I'd thought about that. I had cheesecloth but pieces went through.

 

[midfielder5]

Bummer about losing the batch. condolences!

I am sure many people do it but I would not put a hydrometer in 5 gallons of beer. IMO best practice is to take a 4-6 oz sample (siphon, wine thief or from bucket spigot) and float the hydro in a sample tube or jar to avoid breakage.

 

[myerstyson]

Bummer about losing the batch. condolences!

I am sure many people do it but I would not put a hydrometer in 5 gallons of beer. IMO best practice is to take a 4-6 oz sample (siphon, wine thief or from bucket spigot) and float the hydro in a sample tube or jar to avoid breakage.

To save typing, I said that I broke it in the carboy, but here's what really happened.

I was preparing the brew area to brew. I had my wine thief and hydrometer in the starsan bucket. I took them out, and dropped the hydrometer in the wine thief and walked downstairs. Wine thief/hydro combo in one hand, a small glass in the other for the sample.

I pulled the airlock & cap off the carboy, put it in the sanitized glass, then dipped the wine thief in the carboy. As soon as I picked it out of the carboy, beer was just flowing out the bottom of the thief. I thought, "WTF?"

I dunked it again, thinking maybe the tip at the bottom of the thief was jammed, nope, same result. I tapped the bottom of the thief in the glass and tried a third time, no joy.

I put the airlock back on and went back upstairs into my kitchen to investigate. For some reason, the bottom tip thing of the thief would not settle down.

When I looked under good lighting into the bottom of the thief, I noticed something in there. I flipped it upside down and sure enough, glass shards and little lead weights came pouring out. Then I looked in the bottom of the glass, and more of those little lead weights.

I didn't want to take the chance that any glass made it through the thief into the carboy, thus I dumped it. When I dumped, the tub was filled with hundreds of tiny lead weights.

I learned my lesson.