Midwest Supplies

[ronsky]

Of course the common denominator here is Midwest. You are at a Home Brew forum. Did you ever stop to think you also have this site in common. As well as quite a few others I'm guessing. Not to mention fast food restaurants.

I guess what I am getting at is, I don't believe the common denominator has been found. You're close, and it was great to get everyone rallied together, but I'm not sure you've found it.

Out of curiosity (and it may already have been answered); but who is the issuer of your credit cards? If ALL the cards have been issued from a single large bank like Chase or BoA or Wells Fargo ; the fault might be there... We (and that is the collective use of we) are looking to lay blame at a commonality... We are ticked off, and rightly so, but it could be the issuing bank that was compromised.

(I seem to remember a few weeks ago something about Wells Fargo getting hacked... Not sure what was compromised, but I do seem to remember the news story).

 

[Groner]

Well, I finally received my back ordered items from about a month ago. It only took them another week and a half to ship them AFTER they told me on the phone that they were in.

Of course, they just showed up one day. I was never notified when they were shipped as promised by their customer support staff.

Thank goodness it's over with. Now that my gift cards are spent, I can start spending money somewhere else...

 

[ECUmedford]

Out of curiosity (and it may already have been answered); but who is the issuer of your credit cards? If ALL the cards have been issued from a single large bank like Chase or BoA or Wells Fargo ; the fault might be there... We (and that is the collective use of we) are looking to lay blame at a commonality... We are ticked off, and rightly so, but it could be the issuing bank that was compromised.

(I seem to remember a few weeks ago something about Wells Fargo getting hacked... Not sure what was compromised, but I do seem to remember the news story).

I am with a local credit union. My dad is with a national credit union. I've seen various other banks mentioned in this thread.

 

[ronsky]

I am with a local credit union. My dad is with a national credit union. I've seen various other banks mentioned in this thread.

Well, crap. That derailed that train of thought...

 

[lgilmore]

with both Midwest and Austin I was able to check my order, when it shipped there was a tracking number attached to order record. I clicked on it and both gave me the dates the stuff was going to be delivered. Maybe the vendors just need to let you know when you order where your tracking number will be. In my case, I've purchased from both in the last 30 days. Each took two weeks from order to doorstep. the Midwest order was fairly large too.

 

[mikescooling]

I had a problem with a order and they gave me some money back, so at least they did that. But I feel like they are not doing business like they should. If they went under it's because of poor management. I'm always a little bummed when I see they are the seller on Amazon, it's like "great I found it, O shucks never mind". I know they are reading this and I'm saying to them. It's time to clean house Midwest.

 

[MaxStout]

Reading this thread (and another thread concerning credit card security issues possibly connected to MW), I am bummed.

I like Midwest. It's my go-to LHBS, and it was the store that got me started. The people there have always been friendly, professional and helpful. I feel a certain loyalty to them and I enjoy going there. I have only ordered online once, several months ago, and that worked out fine. But now there seems to be a sort of disconnect between the two components of that company. And that is sad. Maybe it's just a transition, or growing pains. We'll see.

That said, I will still do business with MW in person, but will not likely order online until I start seeing a more well-oiled machine.

 

[seph]

Well, here I am, dropping by to read some threads on HBT and I find this one.....


I had a fraudulent charge to my card last week, to Wal-Mart.com. It was being shipped to Oyster Bay, NY. I have ordered from Midwest in the past. This just seems strange. I don't blame Midwest, but I will be mentioning this thread to the guys that I brew with for sure.

 

[evrose]

I have to jump in an pile on the general negative sentiment toward Midwest here. The first couple or orders I had with them were slow to ship, but got here in good condition with no problems.

My most recent order was a different story. Not only was the order VERY slow to even get out of the warehouse, it was missing two packets of S-04 yeast, and had two pounds of grain crushed when I specified NO crush (the packing invoice confirms this).

I email them about the missing yeast. It takes several days to hear back, and when I do, it's a short "I'll ship that to you". A couple weeks go by, and finally an envelope arrives... with only one of the two missing yeast packets.

Really, it's only a $3 packet of yeast, but geesh... come on guys, this isn't rocket surgery. Slow shipping is one thing. Slow shipping with errors in the shipping is worse. Slow shipping with errors in the shipping and errors in the "correction" is just too much.

I'll be ordering from other vendors from this point on. Maybe I'll give them another shot in the future, maybe not... but they need to do some serious evaluation of their processes.

 

[Ridire]

I had one, too. I haven't ordered from Midwest in several weeks but this seems like a hell of a coincidence. I had a fraudulent charge on Monday morning and then another attempted fruadulent charge later that morning...luckily Fifth Third cancelled the card before the second one.

 

[AMonkey]

I just ordered from them last week and couldn't be happier. Ordered on 7/3 and order was shipped out on 7/5. Got it on 7/9. Less than a week to get to my door and that was even over a holiday. It wasn't a huge order but had a bunch of misc stuff. Everything was there and correct. I have always had a good experience with them and will continue to shop from them.

 

[PistolsAtDawn]

Everyone who is getting upset about this should take a deep breath and calm down for multiple reasons:

• Data breaches happen, and can happen in any number of points in the chain of credit card processing
• I've worked multiple jobs where I have to deal with fraudulent credit card charges. The credit card companies stand behind their customers 100% when there is reasonable evidence to show a charge was fraudulent. You will not be liable for these charges so long as you make a reasonable effort to monitor your statements, so WHEN it happens to you (it will at some point), they will make it right. No need to get all butthurt because something that happens to most of credit card holders happened to you.
• Even if you don't monitor your statements, most major card companies' fraud departments are excellent at detecting unusual activity on your card. I've gotten calls just recently about possible fraud because I bought a whole bunch of homebrew equipment at one time from multiple sources. They were legit, but the purchases raised red flags due to the timing and amounts.
• No computer system in the world can be completely secured unless it is severed from all internet connections, and even then you have the human factor to worry about. Hacks happen.
• Nobody knows if MW is even the real common denominator here since we don't have enough facts to make and logical conclusions

It was prudent to raise awareness about this, but don't be so quick to blame Midwest Supplies. Chances are decent that if there was some sort of breach, it was with their credit card processor. This happens far more than the industry would like folks to know about, because they want to foster trust in their product.

As a counter example, I have ordered from Midwest and have not had any fraudulent charges on any of my cards.

 

[finsfan]

I dont think credit card fraud is something to calm down about, in fact, for such a serious matter id say everyone is handling it pretty well. Again, nobody here is solely blaming midwest but just informing others that this is happening and possibly as a result to ordering from midwest. You have to agree with me that it is a very weird situation when the midwest vendor here has told us multiple times that they do not in any form keep credit card info, but most everyone who has been hacked has had their CC info saved on the midwest website. We even had someone show us their website where they save the info. I have not ordered from them and have not been affected. I do believe there is a common denominator of midwest here and it is hard to argue it isnt. Someone poster earlier they have been using their CC for 13 years and this is the first time it has been compromised, and all in the same time frame, seems a little odd to me.

 

[bmeulebroeck]

Reading this thread (and another thread concerning credit card security issues possibly connected to MW), I am bummed.

I like Midwest. It's my go-to LHBS, and it was the store that got me started. The people there have always been friendly, professional and helpful. I feel a certain loyalty to them and I enjoy going there. I have only ordered online once, several months ago, and that worked out fine. But now there seems to be a sort of disconnect between the two components of that company. And that is sad. Maybe it's just a transition, or growing pains. We'll see.

That said, I will still do business with MW in person, but will not likely order online until I start seeing a more well-oiled machine.

Thanks for the feedback for the retail store, and thanks for being a customer! We have had some kinks to work out, and have not been immune to the same issues many customers have when it comes to getting merchandise, but the situation has been improving steadily all the time and we're in a much better place now than we were even a month ago.

As always we're here to serve the local community with stocked shelves and helpful staff. Thanks for sticking with us and we'll continue to work hard to meet the expectations of the brewing community. If you ever have any feedback while in the store, let us know and we'll do what we can.

 

[eatmorefrogs]

I'm a torn man, I feel like a degenerate gambler when I come back to MW time and time again. Their deals are fantastic and their shipping is honest. But I have an *extremely* low success rate of intact shipments from them. Over the course of the last two years, I've placed about 15 orders with them - their pricing, to reiterate, is rock solid so I kept coming crawling back. But when the items arrive, DME is *regularly* ripped open and yeast isn't packed in any sort of temperature friendly way (I just moved away from Arizona, there are some brutal temps on the front step where the package gets left.) I've bought a lot of stuff from a lot of different online vendors and this is the only place where it consistently comes broken. Obviously broken DME can be replaced easily, but sometimes it's not so obvious. Sometimes it's a small hole or less noticable. Well guess what happens when a small hole is poked in DME and humidity sets in? The DME desiccates and you get this nasty, thick syrup all over the place.

Anywho, I say I'm done, but I'll probably be back. Regular BOGO + rewards program + gaming the gift cards = 65% off on some items (probably not intended.) It gets even cheaper when you post reviews. Ultimately the discounts I've gotten by gaming their rewards program probably puts me ahead, but I'm tired of going to brew on brew day and finding out that the kit was damaged.

Oddly, I'm not seeing the problems that some other users are seeing. Shipping times are great, customer service is friendly, but they can't seem to get things to me intact. The only in-house item (I think it's in-house?) that I've bought had some poor craftsmanship (the clamps on the 4 keg system needed to be replaced with some decent ones that could hold tight enough...their customer service answer was to "replace them at my local hardware store with better ones") and they need to replace the three stooges in the shipping department.

I'll continue to use them for commodity-type indestructible items (they can't break a spoon or a shank by haphazardly packing it) because their prices, but I'm taking my $$ back to my LHBS for ingredients and anything that could conceivably be messed up.

 

[bobdole]

Everyone who is getting upset about this should take a deep breath and calm down for multiple reasons:

• Data breaches happen, and can happen in any number of points in the chain of credit card processing
• I've worked multiple jobs where I have to deal with fraudulent credit card charges. The credit card companies stand behind their customers 100% when there is reasonable evidence to show a charge was fraudulent. You will not be liable for these charges so long as you make a reasonable effort to monitor your statements, so WHEN it happens to you (it will at some point), they will make it right. No need to get all butthurt because something that happens to most of credit card holders happened to you.
• Even if you don't monitor your statements, most major card companies' fraud departments are excellent at detecting unusual activity on your card. I've gotten calls just recently about possible fraud because I bought a whole bunch of homebrew equipment at one time from multiple sources. They were legit, but the purchases raised red flags due to the timing and amounts.
• No computer system in the world can be completely secured unless it is severed from all internet connections, and even then you have the human factor to worry about. Hacks happen.
• Nobody knows if MW is even the real common denominator here since we don't have enough facts to make and logical conclusions

It was prudent to raise awareness about this, but don't be so quick to blame Midwest Supplies. Chances are decent that if there was some sort of breach, it was with their credit card processor. This happens far more than the industry would like folks to know about, because they want to foster trust in their product.

As a counter example, I have ordered from Midwest and have not had any fraudulent charges on any of my cards.

Pistols hit the nail on the head here. Data breaches occur virtually everyday, despite what mainstream media will have you believe. As for Midwest being the common denominator, well of course they are...this is a homebrew forum.

What hasnt been addressed is all of the other possible common denominators; IE- when you filled your gas tank at Mobil last week, or that cheeseburger you got at McDonalds, or maybe the groceries you got at Safeway the other day, or maybe even from your monthly automatic payment to Verizon....


All i'm saying is that before you start getting out your torches and pitchforks, take a step back and look at the big picture...there may be more to it then you think...

 

[wailingguitar]

I only just saw this thread, but it happened to me too. Found my account was locked and had to get a new card sent to me. Was right after an order with Midwest

 

[midwestsupplies]

There has been repeated conjecture in this thread with regard to whether or not we store credit card information.

As we have stated, we do not store credit card information. But, in an effort to avoid any misunderstanding with regard to what you see on our site, this is what we do process and store.

Credit card information gathered during the transaction is forwarded immediately and securely to Authoirize.Net, our payment gateway; we do not retain this information once your transaction is complete. Authorize.Net has been a leading provider of payment gateway services, managing the submission of billions of transactions to the processing networks on behalf of merchant customers. Authorize.Net is a solution of CyberSource Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of Visa (NYSE: V).

As is the case in most credit card transactions, the gateway provider in turn forwards the credit card information to Litle & Co., our credit card processor. Litle & Co. powers the payment processing engines for leading companies that sell directly to consumers through multichannel and internet retail. Litle & Co. is recognized as the leading, independent authority in card-not-present (CNP) commerce.

We do retain the last four digits of your credit card number together with the expiration date. This information is not sufficiently complete to initiate a charge on our site or anywhere else. Instead, we retain a token provided by the credit card gateway. The token is a random number that contains no credit card information. It does allow us to enable you to easily use the same credit card for future transactions with us; but only with us. Your actual credit card information is stored by the Authorize.Net. This tokenization process is recognized as the gold standard for Internet sites even though it has been adopted only by the biggest or most sophisticated companies.

If you still remain uncomfortable with this process, you may delete this retained information at any time here

Please contact our customer service manager Todd with any additional questions. His direct number is 952-562-5354.

Cheers,

The Crew @ Midwest.

 

[drksky]

Used a card there in person a few days ago. Will keep an eye on my account.

For online purchases I have gone to using virtual card numbers that have a fixed dollar value you set for each one you generate. Additionally, you can add a time limit to it as well. Once the value (or time) is gone the number is done. Mine is done though Citi.

I use the Citi virtual numbers as well. They're single-use numbers. Once that number has been pinged, it can't be used again.

I had several cards compromised within a year. Since I started using the virtual numbers, I haven't had a problem.

 

[ShootsNRoots]

As we have stated, we do not store credit card information.

We do retain the last four digits of your credit card number together with the expiration date.

How can I disable the retention of this data? If it's done automatically how can I disable it?

 

[TNTgill]

I also had a great recent order with Midwest. I took advantage of the save on shipping $7.95 flat rate shipping offer on July 4th to pick up a few things. One of the items was silicone tubing that they listed on the site being out of stock for 1-2 weeks. I figured no big deal as I didn't need it to brew. Got a email stating that my order was shipping 7/7/13 and was delivered 7/9/13. The out of stock silicone hose was included in the order. Everything was well packaged and shipping was quick. I have ordered multiple times in the past and always got what I ordered and shipped quickly. Just wanted to let others know of the great experience I had.

 

[midwestsupplies]

How can I disable the retention of this data? If it's done automatically how can I disable it?

If you do not want the last four of your credit card stored on our site, simply uncheck the "keep this card on file" tick box.

 

[ShootsNRoots]

If you do not want the last four of your credit card stored on our site, simply uncheck the "keep this card on file" tick box.

Great! It'd be awesome if you could ensure that checkbox is *unchecked* by default! Thank You!

 

[finsfan]

If you do not want the last four of your credit card stored on our site, simply uncheck the "keep this card on file" tick box.

I have to respectfully disagree that this system, not necessarily midwest, does store more than the last four digits. Its true that it only SHOWS you the last four digits but all other information is stored as well. When going to purchase again, the purchaser must enter the 3 digit security code to ensure proper processing. If it only stored the last four digits, the purchaser would have to re-enter all the credit card information, thus making the credit card information storage a waste of time and not practical or useful in any way.

 

[Marmike600]

Pistols hit the nail on the head here. Data breaches occur virtually everyday, despite what mainstream media will have you believe. As for Midwest being the common denominator, well of course they are...this is a homebrew forum.

What hasnt been addressed is all of the other possible common denominators; IE- when you filled your gas tank at Mobil last week, or that cheeseburger you got at McDonalds, or maybe the groceries you got at Safeway the other day, or maybe even from your monthly automatic payment to Verizon....


All i'm saying is that before you start getting out your torches and pitchforks, take a step back and look at the big picture...there may be more to it then you think...

You know, all of you people that are accusing us of "getting out your torches and pitchforks" obviously havent read any part of the thread. None of us are doing that. We posted to this thread to let people know what is going on. I and I assume many other people are corresponding back and forth with Midwest to help them figure out what happened. Get off of your high horses. You cannot tell me that this is all a coincidence and you cant tell me how to react to my hard earned money being stolen.

 

[ECUmedford]

I have a couple of problems with the "your on a beer forum, of course Midwest is a common denominator" argument:

1) Where are the posters that have had fraudulent charges on their card since the week of July 4th (like those in this thread) that have said they are not Midwest customers. If this is not a Midwest problem and this is truly how often credit card fraud happens, then wouldnt non-Midwest customers be joining the conversation?

2) If you are a member of another non-beer related forum that receives as much traffic as this site does, I encourage you to ask your peers on these forums if any of them have had fraudulent credit card charges since July 3rd. See what kind of response you get. If you want stats to compare your results, I think this thread had about 13 others come forward within the first 600 page views (certainly not unique page views).

The participants in this thread are no doubt a small percentage of MW customers. MW has no idea how large the scope of this potential problem is unless 1) they ask their customers or 2) Visa and Master Card are notified and run an analysis of credit card fraud cases with a MW connection. FYI: You can not notify Visa and Master Card directly of potential security breaches. You have to contact your bank's fraud department, let them know what you suspect and that others have experienced this situation with the same connection. They will be very interested in reporting it to the credit card companies. Here is a link to the form for Visa your financial institution will fill out.

What concerns me the most is my last purchase with them on this card was back in April and many here have indicated that they have not purchased from Midwest in a while. It appears that the fraudulent charges started happening for those in this thread since the week of July 4th. When my new credit card gets in I am considering making a purchase on MW just to see what happens with it as my only purchase on the card.

 

[mrwizard0]

What happened to the other thread about midwest's lack luster service? I tried searching for it but can't find it

 

[elleric]

I have to respectfully disagree that this system, not necessarily midwest, does store more than the last four digits. Its true that it only SHOWS you the last four digits but all other information is stored as well. When going to purchase again, the purchaser must enter the 3 digit security code to ensure proper processing. If it only stored the last four digits, the purchaser would have to re-enter all the credit card information, thus making the credit card information storage a waste of time and not particle or useful in any way.

Please reread the response you are noting. Midwest uses a token not the data. The actual data is stored by their security company. If THAT company has been compromised then the data would be as well... but then we arnt talking about a midwest problem and we would be looking at a huge problem based on that company's size and breadth

There are 4 parties involved in most web sales. You, the store, the company that secures the transfers and the company that processes the payment. And thats not even counting the isps or data storage and or processing farms those companies use... If you think it's just you and Midwest, nothing is ever that simple when money and the internet are involved.

 

[finsfan]

Please reread my first sentence you just quoted. "not necessarily midwest" means I am not blaming them at all or saying it was a problem resulting from their security issues. I am simply saying that the CC data IS stored somewhere and that may be where the breach is (who the hell knows, this is all speculation) and as a possible result of using midwest and the companies they process orders through, people may be getting their CC info stolen.

 

[dstranger99]

Credit card fraud ! A HUGE yes, some jerk took my card and ordered a fleshlight, 3 XXX films, a lifelike vagina, and a 16oz KY Jelly....................




Oh, wait. That was me..........


Carry on............

 

[MaxStout]

 

[vampdee]

I just came across this thread so I registered to reply. I ordered from MWS last week and my card ended up with a Walmart.com and 2 Sears.com charges on it. I trust MWS as I've used them many times before, but I'm pretty sure they are compromised at some level at the moment.

 

[finsfan]

multiple people have experienced both walmart and sears charges, no coincidence here

 

[TKH]

Add me to the list... I seem to have bought two gorgeous T-Mobile phones for someone in a different state.

 

[matt2778]

1. Always use a credit card for online purchases.
2. Never ever use a debit card for anything.
3. Stop worrying about your card being hacked because its visa, MasterCard, or discover's problem.
4.pay off the balance each month and use your reward points to upgrade your brewery.

 

[Marmike600]

1. Always use a credit card for online purchases.
2. Never ever use a debit card for anything.
3. Stop worrying about your card being hacked because its visa, MasterCard, or discover's problem.
4.pay off the balance each month and use your reward points to upgrade your brewery.

Well gee. Thanks. I'm only 5 years old and no one here knows anything about credit cards. What does that have to do with anything on this thread.

 

[WhiskeySix]

This thread is wierdly identical to one a couple of years ago concerning Austin Homebrew Supply. Hmmmmm.

 

[Shakybones]

I've ordered from Midwest five times since April. Each time, I made sure the box for "keep this card on file" was unchecked (don't you guys read what you're clicking "OK" to on the internet?). I've kept a close eye on my CC purchases through my bank and haven't had a single false charge.

IMHO, the token system that the MW rep described is standard and as secure as anything on the internet can be. Still, I take the extra precaution of unchecking that box. I'm sorry you are all having problems. It certainly may be as a result of your MW purchases (whether it's their fault or not...). I'm just offering my experience as a counterpoint.

 

[JayUnt]

Add me to the list too.

 

[unionrdr]

Another thing to watch out for are those java updates. I kept getting unsigned ones. This time I got one that was legit as could be. Contained 4 nastie trojans,among them was some internet control hacker weirdness. My scanner nailed all 4 of them. The hacker one tries to control the browser to get info. Messes up browser function too. They got nuthin. But it could've been used to get personal info as it's entered. Watch those seemingly innocent downloads too.