Mesquite Molasses Beer

[JuanMoore]

Are the catkins the fuzzy things on the trees right now?

Yep

 

[evanos]

Yeah, they're clusters of little flowers.

 

[Jaellis]

I was planning on using my in-laws tree this year but I guess it was too close to the patio and they ripped it out :-( I am going to have to plant a few myself. They always do well here in Las Vegas.

So speaking of planting them myself, any thoughts on the best variety of mesquite? I hear velvet mesquite are generally considered the sweetest, any other thoughts on the best variety of mesquite tree to plant?

I figure why not grow my own it will make it a little more fun growing my own.

 

[Jaellis]

Evanos, Any luck on tracking down that recipe from your prof?

 

[evanos]

Yeah, he sent me an article in Zymurgy from 2002. I'm not sure how to post a .pdf file and I googled the article and couldn't find it online. It's titled "Sower 2002 - Homebrewing Indigenous Beverages of the Southwest - Zymurgy". If you could tell me how to post a .pdf or find a link to it, that would be awesome.

Thanks!

 

[Jaellis]

So I was talking to a master brewer at a micro brew here in Las Vegas and he was saying that he has made a few beers with mesquite, not at his brewery but at home.

I am trying to type this as close to what he said last night as possible. I'm going from memory.

He said he roasts the whole Pods for 15 min at 350 f (if he wants some color), or for a light brew he put them in 180 f water for 15 min to sterilize pods (the pods have lots of bacteria on them)
Then takes the pods and breaks them up a bit
Puts them in water at 170 degrees for about 90 minutes
--he added a note that if you boil the pods you sometimes get a grassy flavor and it puts a lot of protein into the wort. So don't let it get to a boil.
after that you take the pods out and test the S.G. (let it cool a bit) after that treat it like any other wort you can hop it an do your magic.

If you are on here Jim I'm sorry if I misquoted you or forgot something.

So that was his experience, I just wanted to share that.

 

[grrlscout]

So speaking of planting them myself, any thoughts on the best variety of mesquite? I hear velvet mesquite are generally considered the sweetest, any other thoughts on the best variety of mesquite tree to plant?

Velvet, Honey, and Screwbean are native to the Southwest, and in my opinion, have a much better flavor than the South American varieties.

They can be hard to find at nurseries though, since a lot of people prefer the non-natives for landscaping. The non-natives grow faster and taller, usually with one central trunk.

Whereas the natives are slow-growers, and are more like large shrubs. They are slow-growers because they put down one deep taproot. Which also makes them a lot more sturdy in a windstorm.

OK that was probably a lot more than you wanted to know.

 

[evanos]

Puts them in water at 170 degrees for about 90 minutes
--he added a note that if you boil the pods you sometimes get a grassy flavor and it puts a lot of protein into the wort. So don't let it get to a boil.

I'll second what he said about boiling the pods. My only experience working with the pods and making the molasses involved boiling the pods and it smelled like oats and molasses mixed with alfalfa hay. Not too pleasant.

 

[JuanMoore]

+1 to the North American Varieties having better flavor (velvet, honey, screwbean). Of those I think the honey mesquite is the fastest grower and best shade tree. The velvet mesquites are probably the smallest and slowest growers. The popular Chilean and other S. American varieties certainly grow fast, but they seem to have a lot more tannins giving them a bitter chalky taste.

All mesquite pods have a fair amount of tannins, which are easily extracted at hotter temps, so another +1 for not boiling the pods. In fact, I'd suggest keeping the steeping liquid under 170F.

The zymurgy article doesn't have an all mesquite recipe, it's an APA with some mesquite added for flavor. Both recipes in the article are good award winning brews though, especially the cider. I'm still very interested in any 100% mesquite recipes, mostly because I'm interested in techniques to further reduce the tannins. If anyone comes across one, please post it or send it my way.

 

[Jaellis]

So I think there is going to have to be a lot of experimentation because what I have seen this isn't a really common extensively documnented drink we are talking about. Im really exited to make a few batches this year.

I am not super familiar with fining agents but could gelatin, isinglass, or sparkolloid work to remove some of the tannins while also clarifying and removing protiens?

I found this article it is more for wine, but I think the same principals would apply here right?
http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/fining.htm

Anyone else have any experience removing tannins with fining agents?

 

[JuanMoore]

Careful pod selection, a coarser crush, low steeping temps, and using bentonite clay as a fining agent are the things I've been using to minimize tannins, but I'm interested in any other things I can do. I wonder if other fining agents are better at removing tannins, or if using a combination of fining agents would work better? It sounds from the link posted above that blood might be a better fining agent for tannins. That's something I wouldn't have considered adding to my beer, but it sure sounds cool

Mesquite is very susceptable to the mold that contains aflatoxins, just like peanuts. Without expensive lab tests, there's no way to know if the pods we harvest have aflatoxins in them or not. According to my friend who works as a toxicologist (who is also the author of the zymurgy article), using bentonite clay as a fining agent should remove most of any aflatoxins present, as well as many of the tannins. It does seem to help a lot with the tannins, and while it's highly unlikely that aflatoxin poisoning could become an issue from drinking mesquite beer, bentonite seems to be cheap insuarance against it. That's why I've been using bentonite, but I think maybe I'll try some additional fining agents as well.

 

[Jaellis]

Yeah the blood sounds interesting, but im not sure I could get over the fact there is ox blood in my brew. I hear we shouldn't use tiger blood. Good ole charlie taught me that one. Lol. Anyways. Yeah maybe we can try a few different fining agents and get a good mixture figured out. Looking forward to harvest time. And anyone in the vegas area maybe we can get together and go harvest when its time. PM me so we can work together.

 

[JuanMoore]

After some more research it looks like plain ol gelatin is one of the best fining agents for tannins. I quit using it after it significantly reduced the hop aroma of an IPA, but I think I'll have to give it another shot.

 

[evanos]

Okay, here's the article from Zymurgy my prof sent me. Thanks to Jaellis for converting to jpeg.

 

[C-Rider]

Back in the early 1800's a Catholic priest introduced mesquite (Prosopis pallida) to Hawai`i. I have a few on my property but have no idea as to variety. But I will mess with them later in the summer when the beans begin to fall.

It's been here so long it has a Hawaiian name Kiawe

 

[Jaellis]

Very cool, I wonder how the species acts in the tropical environment vs the desert environment. What effect the environment has on the beans. Sorry I'm kind of a scientist type, just some questions that ran through my head.

Anyways thanks evanos for posting that and I look forward to reports later this summer.

 

[arondee]

Juan, after reading that post about blood and seeing your interest in using it it I am now seriously reconsidering coming over this weekend to brew.

 

[JuanMoore]

Juan, after reading that post about blood and seeing your interest in using it it I am now seriously reconsidering coming over this weekend to brew.

LOL, I may try to use the rest of the mesquite this weekend, but I won't need the blood until after fermentation.

 

[Jaellis]

So I was thinking, I wonder what other starches are in mesquite pods that we havnt considered. Would a 1 - 2 hour mash at 158 of the pods with added amylase produce any significant amount of sugar converted from any starches in the pod. Any one know if this would even be worth it?

Maybe Treat it like all grain, with some extra sugar.

 

[RiverBirchBrew]

Evanos, You wouldn't have that Zymurgy article in pdf form would you?

 

[petro]

After digging around a bit on the net, I found a mesquite flour that claims to be made after removing the seeds and the membrane around them, using only the central part of the pod. Anyone think this might make a reasonable substitute for those of us who don't live anywhere we can get pods? There's no mention of what varieties are used.

http://www.glutenfreemall.com/catalog/shiloh-farms-glutenfree-mesquite-flour-p-1153.html

 

[vegas20s]

Wow! Just found this post after a response on another post. I'm trying to come up with a southwest beer here's what I got so far, please give thoughts:

7lbs pilsner LME
1lbs Mesquite Pods Made into Syrup
1 lbs Wild Desert Honey
.5 lbs prickly pairs
(spices yet to be determined)
Lightly hopped 15-25 IBUS
T-58 yeast fermented @75-80 to get extra spicy

My Idea is for a Sonoran Saison. I'm not gunna use wild yeast. But I am thinking a good Belgian variant with heat tolerant properties would be appropriate for the desert. Maybe one day I'll get a good wild desert yeast but fore now I'll use something I know about. The mesquite syrup could be used instead of the candied sugar. Also, get some wild desert honey from T.J.'s. Not sure about the spice additions. And instead of orange use some prickly pair.:fro:

 

[Jaellis]

Not sure if the flour would work, it has the sugar but clarity would probably be an issue. Not sure about texture. There is also the issue of doughballs. Cost also seems high, but I can harvest myself so mine just cost time. Where do you live maybe there is a source somewhere within a short driving distance.

I was also noticing that some of the pods around vegas are just starting to brown almost harvest time!!! Anyone around vegas maybe we can get together for harvesting. PM me if you're interested.

 

[Jaellis]

Wow! Just found this post after a response on another post. I'm trying to come up with a southwest beer here's what I got so far, please give thoughts:

7lbs pilsner LME
1lbs Mesquite Pods Made into Syrup
1 lbs Wild Desert Honey
.5 lbs prickly pairs
(spices yet to be determined)
Lightly hopped 15-25 IBUS
T-58 yeast fermented @75-80 to get extra spicy

My Idea is for a Sonoran Saison. I'm not gunna use wild yeast. But I am thinking a good Belgian variant with heat tolerant properties would be appropriate for the desert. Maybe one day I'll get a good wild desert yeast but fore now I'll use something I know about. The mesquite syrup could be used instead of the candied sugar. Also, get some wild desert honey from T.J.'s. Not sure about the spice additions. And instead of orange use some prickly pair.:fro:

Just a thought you might not need any spices. The mesquite has notes of cinnamon, cloves, and vanilla. With the prickly pears I think it would balance well with no other spices.

 

[unionrdr]

I remember one of the earlier posters that picks them mentioning the spice qualities. Seems to me he made them into mesquite molasses to brew with.

 

[petro]

@Jaellis I'm in NYC. I'm pretty sure there's not any wild mesquite anywhere around here.

When I went back and looked at the page, I realized that the species is the South American one; the "varieties" are all different species, not true varieties. I may be better off ordering some pods and doing all the hard work, though I'm not sure if it's worth it. I'd like to hear some more about how some of these recipes turn out before deciding.

 

[vegas20s]

Just a thought you might not need any spices. The mesquite has notes of cinnamon, cloves, and vanilla. With the prickly pears I think it would balance well with no other spices.

I'll have to take that into consideration.

I was also thinking of only punting in 2-4 pears. Instead of a full half pound.

 

[Jaellis]

I'll have to take that into consideration.

I was also thinking of only punting in 2-4 pears. Instead of a full half pound.

I have never made a saison only studied how so don't take my word.

 

[RiverBirchBrew]

Well, the pods are both on the trees and on the ground. Do I want to collect them "green" from the trees or sun dried off the ground?

 

[JuanMoore]

Well, the pods are both on the trees and on the ground. Do I want to collect them "green" from the trees or sun dried off the ground?

Dried from the trees is best, but dried on the ground is ok too. If you have to pull, the beans are still too green and should be left on the tree. They should almost fall off into your bucket. The desert harvesters website has some great tips and suggestions for collecting mesquite pods.