Mesquite Molasses Beer

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Jaellis

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So I am working on recipes for beers based on plants found in the Mojave desert, and US Southwest. I am going to be incorporating Mesquite Molasses as one of the main ingredients (simple recipe below). This is a sweet/bitter syrup. Has Anyone tried this?? I was going to make a small test batch here but want some input. Any ideas to take the bitter flavor out of the Mesquite Molasses (i.e. Isolate the sugars maybe) still good and edible with the flavor. If I can do this I can try this instead of malt.

The sugar in the Mesquite pods is fructose.

!!And answers to your questions no I do not want any mesquite wood in this recipe this is not for a mesquite smoke flavoring. I am not putting Mesquite chips in with my secondary!!

Mesquite Molasses:
1 lb mesquite pods washed, (I break mine up a bit)
1 gallon of water

Put everything in a big pot boil for 2 hours, strain the pods out, save the liquid, crush the pods in bowl or food processor then put everything back together, boil for another 30 minutes(add water if necessary). Strain the mush out of the liquid, and discard the mush. Reduce the liquid down until it is a thin syrup texture. Then pour it into a container and save it for the beer.
 
Any developments on the mesquite molasses beer? I'm interested in doing something similar.
 
Probably too late, but I just saw this thread and thought I'd respond for anyone else considering using mesquite. I've been using it quite a bit lately with good results. The two main things you can do to prevent the bitterness from coming through are just lightly crushing the pods, and steeping at lower temps rather than boiling.

I like to rinse the pods off after harvesting, and a quick roast in the oven not only dries them off, but also kills the bruchid beetles, reduces the bitterness slightly, makes extracting the sugars easier, and brings out rich flavors as the sugars caramelize. It also makes the pods more brittle so that they're easier to crush. A light roast results in something similar to a crystal/caramel malt. You can also roast for up to an hour to get something similar to chocolate malt or roasted barley. I like ~20min at 350F personally, it gives nice vanilla, caramel, and cinnamon flavors without getting into the roasted malt flavors.

I don't reccomend grinding the pods in a coffe grinder, food processor, or blender. The beans in the pods have a lot of proteins and a few flavors I'd rather not have in my beer. The sugars we're after are in the flesh of the pod, not the bean, and grinding to a powder is just going to extract bitter tannins. The beans are too hard to run through a grain mill, so I just smash the pods with a potato masher until the pieces are all under ~1" long.

Boiling will extract bitter tannins from the fibrous part of the pods just like it does with barley husks. Since the sugars are already present and no conversion is happening, temperatures and times are much less critical than when mashing grains, but I'd still keep the temps under 170F to prevent tannin extraction. The time it takes to extract the sugar will depend on how long you roasted the pods. Unroasted pods will take ~2 hours, while lightly roasted take ~1 hour, and a dark roast will only take ~30 min.

Making an extract is a good way to get repeatable and predictable results with mesquite, but if you're a lazy all grain brewer like myself you can also just add a couple pounds of pods to the mash. I also reccomend using bentonite clay as a fining agent in either the extract or the finished beer just in case there are any aflatoxins.
 
Wow. Never heard of this, but it sounds cool. Thanks for posting Juan. I wonder if this would be a good option for GF brewers as well, for another source of nonbarley fermentables.
 
Wow. Never heard of this, but it sounds cool. Thanks for posting Juan. I wonder if this would be a good option for GF brewers as well, for another source of nonbarley fermentables.

The flavors are pretty strong, so I wouldn't use it for more than ~25% of the grain bill, but it certainly could be used in a GF beer. I recently roasted and crushed some mesquite, and it smells just like a box of honey bunches of oats cereal.
 
wow. great information.
I remember reading something about Pinole in the past, but I never thought about brewing with mesquite pods.

Thanks for a great thread.
 
Nice! Good looking out Revvy, I just noticed this thread.

Are these pods something that is readily available at a specialty supermarket, Hispanic perhaps? I'd be interested in trying something like this. I know that regular molasses is 90% fermentable while blackstrap is only 50%, I am assuming the term molasses being used by the OP has nothing to do with that type of molasses that we all know? Do you know how fermentable the resulting sugars are? Does the roasting bring out some nice color in the resulting extracted sugars?

Sorry for the load of questions, but thanks in advance :D
 
During my time in New Mexico this year, the property I was leasing had several mesquite trees and the pods grew in the middle of the summer. The foxes (there were four on the property) would feed on the lower hanging ones; I wondered what nutritional value they held (the pods, not the foxes).

Had I seen this before I moved back to Denver, I would have harvested some!

it is amazing what you learn here.. this is one to bookmark and try at some point!
 
WOW! I'm so stoked this got some attention!

Okay, so mesquite trees grow all over the South and the pods are readily harvestable on the tree and on the ground if they're not too old. I have a paper from someone who did a Home Econ master's thesis on the use of mesquite which gives a nutritional break down of the pods and flour, etc. Here's the URL for the paper:
http://etd.lib.ttu.edu/theses/available/etd-03252009-31295003638896/unrestricted/31295003638896.pdf

In order to get whole beans, one would have to go and pick them. Beans aren't sold in stores because they grow everywhere and are not a particularly popular item. They aren't generally used in "Mexican" cuisine, but they were a primary staple in the diets of native peoples in the southern states, Mexico, Central Am, and South Am. And by natives of Mexico, I mean natives, not Mestizo or Spanish. (Hopi, Tohono O'odham, Yavapai, etc.)

On the term "mollasses", it's not true mollasses. Mesquite mollasses is the term used to describe a syrup produced by roasting, breaking, and simmering the pods to release the sugars. I've only made it once with a bad batch of pods, and it smelled like animal feed. However, I know for a fact that the pods of different species, and even different individual trees, can vary greatly in flavor. In general, the tastiest ones I've found are the Western Honey Mesquite (Prosopis glandula). Chilean and Argentinian species (P. alba, chilensis) tend to vary more in their tannin content and can be quite woody or chalky. Here at the University of Arizona, there are a huge variety to try from, and the Honey Mesquites are generally sweeter and lower in tannin.

I mentioned this to one of my professors and he said he knew someone who brewed a true all mesquite beer that wasn't too bad. He's trying to track down the recipe for me, and I'll keep you posted.
 
Lcasanova-
I know a lot of places that sell mesquite flour, but I've never heard of anywhere that sells whole pods. Maybe next season some of us desert brewers could harvest a bunch extra for those who don't have access to it. The mesquite pods are ~30 sugar by weight, and it's a highly fermentable sugar. Roasting adds color, flavor, and reduces the fermentability slightly.

evanos-
You make a good point about the diffferent varieties, as I don't like the chalky flavor of the increasingly common chilean mesquite at all. I've found the velvet and honey mesquite varieities to have the best flavor personally.

To make sure your pods have good flavor, you can taste a pod from each tree you harvest from, and avoid any trees that have an off flavor. It's also a good idea to avoid trees near busy streets or planted next to telephone or power poles.

Is your UofA professor the same one that got acute aflatoxin poisoning from eating the mesquite pudding a few years back? He's the reason I suggest using the bentonite clay. I know humans have exceptionally high tolerance to it, but it is a cummulative toxin, so I try to avoid it when possible.
 
Hi all,

I'm new here. Though I've made wine a couple of times, I've never attempted beer. I admit, I'm a bit intimidated by the whole process.

But I thought I might be able to help out with info regarding mesquite pods, so I went ahead and registered.

This past summer, I harvested about 10 gallons worth of pods -- mostly velvet and honeys. I kept them in covered buckets to thoroughly dry.

5049278244_83c08e75a9_b.jpg


In the Fall, I had them milled. Desert Harvesters has a hammermill that they tow around the state, for the purpose of milling mesquite and carob pods. As other have noted, the seeds within the pods are very hard. Thus, the special mill is required.

I ended up with 10lbs of flour, that I will use for baking. I also have about 5lbs of the resulting chaff.

5076582459_289e650db1_b.jpg


I was told that I could use the chaff to make a molassass, and that some make beer with it. But I couldn't find any details regarding exactly how, which is what brought me here.

As far as buying them, a while back, I stumbled across a site that sold wild foods, and they had them. Now, for the life of me, I can't find it.

More pics of my picking and processing adventures are in my Flickr acct:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/grrlscout224/sets/72157625152855258

The Desert Harvesters site is a great resource on using mesquite:
http://www.desertharvesters.org/harvesting-processing/
 
The desert harvesters are a great bunch of people, and I love their annual mesquite pancake cook-off here in Tucson. What you have there isn't nearly enough to make an entire 5 gal batch of beer, but I wouldn't reccomend a 100% mesquite beer anyway.

There are a lot of methods for making mesquite molasses, and through some trial and error I've got a process I think works pretty well. First I'd reccomend a light roast to bring out the flavors, although this step is entirely optional. Roasting will tame the tannins and woodiness, and bring out the sweetness and cinnammon and clove flavors. As previously mentioned, I like about 15-20 min at 350F.

Next step is to steep the husks at about 150-165F. How long you need to steep will depend largely on how roasted the pods are. Unroasted will take 90-120 minutes, while the lightly roasted pods will only take ~75 min or so.

After the pods have steeped, the pods can be strained out, and the liquid reduced until it reaches a satisfactory SG. The resulting syrup can be added to your favorite beer recipe. I think it's a great addition to most beer styles, but works especially well with a robust porter or similar.
 
Juan, I've been looking for some brewers in Tucson. Are you a member of any brewing groups here?
 
Juan, I've been looking for some brewers in Tucson. Are you a member of any brewing groups here?

I'm a Tucson Homebrew Club member. Meetings are the first Tues of the month at Boondocks, near First Ave and Fort Lowell. Come down and check it out if you haven't already, the next meeting is Dec 7th. A bunch of homebrewers will also be at the Belgian beer dinner at BJ's on Dec 2nd.
 
Nice! Good looking out Revvy, I just noticed this thread.

Are these pods something that is readily available at a specialty supermarket, Hispanic perhaps? I'd be interested in trying something like this. I know that regular molasses is 90% fermentable while blackstrap is only 50%, I am assuming the term molasses being used by the OP has nothing to do with that type of molasses that we all know? Do you know how fermentable the resulting sugars are? Does the roasting bring out some nice color in the resulting extracted sugars?

Sorry for the load of questions, but thanks in advance :D

I just ran across this thread and I did a little searching and found a site that sells mesquite pods. I am interested in hearing what anyone has done with this ingredient.

http://www.az-cactus.com/Mesquite-Beans-For-Sale.htm
 
I just ran across this thread and I did a little searching and found a site that sells mesquite pods. I am interested in hearing what anyone has done with this ingredient.

http://www.az-cactus.com/Mesquite-Beans-For-Sale.htm

I've brewed 2 batches with mesquite so far. One was a mesquite IPA and the other was essentially a very heavily hopped robust porter. They both turned out great, and I plan on harvesting way more this year than I did last year. One of them had some excessive tannins from using a lot of mesquite, but a cold crash and an extra 2 weeks of aging cured that.
 
Wow! My G-G-G-grandpa was an Apache Chief,& I don't remember the old timers telling this story. From the taste description given on flicker,this sounds darn good!
I'll have to get some,just how to get it milled up here in Ohio.? I'm thinking maybe mixing the right amount into an amber ale for Halloween & turkey day. I wonder what the right amount of that syrup would be for a 6 gallon brew?
 
Just thought I'd give you an update.

I tried my hand at making the mesquite syrup. I took 4oz of mesquite chaff, put it in a stock pot, covered it with water, and let it simmer for several hours.

Then I strained it with a colander, and let it simmer some more. Then I used a mesh strainer, and simmered it some more.

4oz of chaff made about 1 cup of molasses syrup. But boy is it good! Thick. Nice and sweet, slightly cinnamony.

5349452493_06f931c129_z.jpg


I even used some to make popsicles:

5427828427_f4f361ceb4_z.jpg


I still have plenty of chaff left to play with. Next time, I think I'll do as Juan suggested, and toast it first.
 
Wow what did I start? This is awesome.

So here is my update.

I made the batch last year, but something went wrong. It was horrible, and then I got so caught up with work I forgot to get back on here, partly also because of the complete let down of the beer.

After reading all of this I am excited to give it another try.

My main interest in this started because I am an archaeologist in Las Vegas and I am interested in possible uses of southwestern native plants in beer making. Possible bittering herb could be juniper berries maybe?? Anyhow Thanks for all the info
 
I showed my wife this post and now our weekend mission is to gather mesquite pods. I've been looking for a way to make a style with desert ingredients. Thanks for the post.


You may not have much luck with the mesquite pods just yet, as it's not quite the right time of year. I think if the pacific NW can have a Cascadian ale, it's only fair we have our own "Sonoran" style as well. A friend of mine wrote an article for Zymurgy magazine about brewing with desert plants that included recipes for a mesquite pale ale and a prickly pear fruit cider. The cider is delicious and has the most amazing hypnotic color. Some other local ingredients good for brewing are agave syrup and our unique local honey varieties, especially if you're into meads.
 
It's funny, I spend nearly every day in the desert, see hundreds of Mesquite trees and have no idea when the "season" would be. Sonoran style may be my new mission. Thanks for the info.
 
The season for mesquite is generally in July/August, if I remember correctly. At least, that's when I remember them fruiting at the UofA.
 
It's funny, I spend nearly every day in the desert, see hundreds of Mesquite trees and have no idea when the "season" would be. Sonoran style may be my new mission. Thanks for the info.

Mesquites flower twice each year once in the spring and again during the monsoons. The pods are dry and ready the first time starting around June, and again usually around late September. The later season usually seems to be more prolific. Desert Harvesters has some good info about harvesting mesquite, and their annual mesquite flour pancake cookoff in Dunbar Springs is really fun.
 
You can bet I'll be paying more attention now. I'm thinking some Mesquite and maybe a pound of local honey. Thanks again for all the info. I'm feeling very motivated to try this.
 
It's gonna be a good year for mesquite pods this year. The hard freeze seems to have shocked the trees into putting on loads and loads of catkins. Gonna keep my eyes open for good spots to pick.
 
I was planning on using my in-laws tree this year but I guess it was too close to the patio and they ripped it out :-( I am going to have to plant a few myself. They always do well here in Las Vegas.

So speaking of planting them myself, any thoughts on the best variety of mesquite? I hear velvet mesquite are generally considered the sweetest, any other thoughts on the best variety of mesquite tree to plant?

I figure why not grow my own it will make it a little more fun growing my own.
 
Yeah, he sent me an article in Zymurgy from 2002. I'm not sure how to post a .pdf file and I googled the article and couldn't find it online. It's titled "Sower 2002 - Homebrewing Indigenous Beverages of the Southwest - Zymurgy". If you could tell me how to post a .pdf or find a link to it, that would be awesome.

Thanks!
 
So I was talking to a master brewer at a micro brew here in Las Vegas and he was saying that he has made a few beers with mesquite, not at his brewery but at home.

I am trying to type this as close to what he said last night as possible. I'm going from memory.

He said he roasts the whole Pods for 15 min at 350 f (if he wants some color), or for a light brew he put them in 180 f water for 15 min to sterilize pods (the pods have lots of bacteria on them)
Then takes the pods and breaks them up a bit
Puts them in water at 170 degrees for about 90 minutes
--he added a note that if you boil the pods you sometimes get a grassy flavor and it puts a lot of protein into the wort. So don't let it get to a boil.
after that you take the pods out and test the S.G. (let it cool a bit) after that treat it like any other wort you can hop it an do your magic.

If you are on here Jim I'm sorry if I misquoted you or forgot something.

So that was his experience, I just wanted to share that.
 
So speaking of planting them myself, any thoughts on the best variety of mesquite? I hear velvet mesquite are generally considered the sweetest, any other thoughts on the best variety of mesquite tree to plant?

Velvet, Honey, and Screwbean are native to the Southwest, and in my opinion, have a much better flavor than the South American varieties.

They can be hard to find at nurseries though, since a lot of people prefer the non-natives for landscaping. The non-natives grow faster and taller, usually with one central trunk.

Whereas the natives are slow-growers, and are more like large shrubs. They are slow-growers because they put down one deep taproot. Which also makes them a lot more sturdy in a windstorm.

OK that was probably a lot more than you wanted to know. :eek:
 
Puts them in water at 170 degrees for about 90 minutes
--he added a note that if you boil the pods you sometimes get a grassy flavor and it puts a lot of protein into the wort. So don't let it get to a boil.

I'll second what he said about boiling the pods. My only experience working with the pods and making the molasses involved boiling the pods and it smelled like oats and molasses mixed with alfalfa hay. Not too pleasant.
 
+1 to the North American Varieties having better flavor (velvet, honey, screwbean). Of those I think the honey mesquite is the fastest grower and best shade tree. The velvet mesquites are probably the smallest and slowest growers. The popular Chilean and other S. American varieties certainly grow fast, but they seem to have a lot more tannins giving them a bitter chalky taste.

All mesquite pods have a fair amount of tannins, which are easily extracted at hotter temps, so another +1 for not boiling the pods. In fact, I'd suggest keeping the steeping liquid under 170F.

The zymurgy article doesn't have an all mesquite recipe, it's an APA with some mesquite added for flavor. Both recipes in the article are good award winning brews though, especially the cider. I'm still very interested in any 100% mesquite recipes, mostly because I'm interested in techniques to further reduce the tannins. If anyone comes across one, please post it or send it my way.
 
So I think there is going to have to be a lot of experimentation because what I have seen this isn't a really common extensively documnented drink we are talking about. Im really exited to make a few batches this year.

I am not super familiar with fining agents but could gelatin, isinglass, or sparkolloid work to remove some of the tannins while also clarifying and removing protiens?

I found this article it is more for wine, but I think the same principals would apply here right?
http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/fining.htm

Anyone else have any experience removing tannins with fining agents?
 
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