Medieval Ale- Discussion and Experiences

[eriktlupus]

no but now that i've seen it i might

 

[epimortum]

Not as of yet but it is definitely on my to-do list. I am always interested in the history of things especially things I enjoy? And I often find myself wanting to be recreate with as much accuracy and precision as possible the ancient ways, I think it helps us gain an understanding of ourselves through our ancestors.

Though of course there are simply things we will never know and thus certain environmental conditions will never be available or unknowingly made available.

Again thanks much.

 

[DeathBrewer]

In England in the middle ages, particularly before the Plague (which first reached England in 1348), the most common drink of the day was ale. Ale, during this time, was a drink made from malted grains, water, and fermented with yeast. Malted grain would be crushed; boiling (or at least very hot) water would be added and the mixture allowed to work; finally the liquid was drained off, cooled and fermented. The ale might have been spiced, but it would not have had hops as an ingredient.

Beer, on the other hand, was made from malted grains, water, hops, and fermented with yeast. Hops added a measure of bitterness to the beer, and also helped preserve it. We will see below that the successful addition of hops required a change in the process that had a profound effect on the resulting product: after the liquid was drained off, it was boiled again with the hops.

They didn't know what yeast was back then, so including that in the list of ingredients is a bit odd. Not only that, but if they didn't boil the wort, it would surely be packed with lactobacillus, which would give them more of a sour ale.

This is interesting stuff. I may have to try a sour medieval ale.

 

[SmugMug]

Subscribed.
This is a subject near and dear to me. part of my "brewing archeology" fascination.

Technically wouldn't this be considered as beer anthropology??? I mean you're talking about the evolution of human culture and their lives, not physical relics. Ok....sorry 'bout the semantic argument.

 

[MeatyPortion]

This intrigues me. Great thread.

 

[skadalajara]

Technically wouldn't this be considered as beer anthropology??? I mean you're talking about the evolution of human culture and their lives, not physical relics. Ok....sorry 'bout the semantic argument.

How bout we call it a little of both.
I need to get off my arse. Since I have no way currently of keeping my fermenters in the normal ale temperature range, it seems the best time to brew the Egyptian and Hohokam brews I've been wanting to brew.

 

[Bob]

They didn't know what yeast was back then, so including that in the list of ingredients is a bit odd. Not only that, but if they didn't boil the wort, it would surely be packed with lactobacillus, which would give them more of a sour ale.

This is interesting stuff. I may have to try a sour medieval ale.

They did know what yeast was 'back then'. They just didn't know it was a single-celled microfungus; that had to wait for Pasteur's Etudes sur la Biere. Yeast went by many names: yeast, barm, brack, Godesgood, etc. But names didn't really matter - brewers knew that if you added the foam from a strong ferment (or some of the tan sludge from the bottom of the fermenter) to your fresh wort, the same reaction would take place. It's a miracle!

It is also a mistake to think that all medieval ales were immediately sour because the unboiled wort is a microbiological playground. We think this because we're frightened to death about infection from the instant we start seriously reading brewing texts. But in fact, it can take quite a lot to sour ale.

In the first place, a proper inoculation/pitch will overwhelm any stray lactobaclli or other spoiling microbes. It won't kill them, but the Yeast Reproduction Factory's activity will far, far outstrip the others'. In the second, after the ferment the ale presents an inhospitable environment for spoilage microbes, due to pH and presence of alcohol.

That said, unhopped ale does spoil much more easily than hopped beer. That's one of the reasons beer caught on so strongly - it keeps longer.

Moreover, most table ale - weak ale consumed with meals - was consumed within days of brewing, so spoilage wasn't a huge concern.* The strong ales were laid down like wine and kept for quite a long time indeed; there are monastic accounts from throughout the medieval period specifying criteria for ales of differing strength, for the abbot and VIPs, other guests, and the brothers themselves. The same dividing lines were drawn in secular households, noble and non-noble, great and small.

I've personally brewed parti-gyle unbittered medieval ales to authentic receipts. The table ales didn't last beyond seven days without funk. But the first-running, strong ales - laid down in corked bottles - lasted six months or more. YMMV!

Cheers,

Bob

* It was enough a concern to warrant instructions in books of "housewifery" on how to deal with sour ale. But then again, so did wine, beer, and strong ale.

 

[DeathBrewer]

I figured they would just dump on old cakes and repitch sludge, but they didn't know what it was or why it worked...like you said, A MIRACLE!

Isn't malted barley always crawling with lactobacillus? Even if you had a good pitching rate of yeast, I'd think it would finish the beer and then the lacto would take over and start souring. That's what makes me think that, traditionally, many of these ales were sour, although if they were enjoyed young I understand why they wouldn't be sour yet.

I'm sure there were a very wide variety of ales. I want to try something like this...maybe a wheat wine type ale with a lacto culture pitched after the yeast do their job. sort of a medieval berliner-weisse.

 

[Bob]

Sure! Or you could just do like they didn't, and wait.

Bob

P.S. Oh, and the whole yeast thing? The Reinheitsgebot, in 1516 doesn't mention yeast.

 

[Joos]

Didn't add yeast to the purity law till the 1800's.Good experiment ,but it sounds pretty nasty and unsanitary to me.I'll stick with beer

 

[Bob]

Try it first. Make a small batch and just try it.

 

[CBBaron]

I figured they would just dump on old cakes and repitch sludge, but they didn't know what it was or why it worked...like you said, A MIRACLE!

Isn't malted barley always crawling with lactobacillus? Even if you had a good pitching rate of yeast, I'd think it would finish the beer and then the lacto would take over and start souring. That's what makes me think that, traditionally, many of these ales were sour, although if they were enjoyed young I understand why they wouldn't be sour yet.

I'm sure there were a very wide variety of ales. I want to try something like this...maybe a wheat wine type ale with a lacto culture pitched after the yeast do their job. sort of a medieval berliner-weisse.

Malted barley does contain a significant amount of lacto, but I would imagine that the 150F + mash temp would make a serious dent in their viable population. Pasteurization can be done at 145F for 30 min so the mash could be considered pasteurized.

Craig

 

[DeathBrewer]

Aha! I was concentrating on the boil and the mash completely slipped my mind.

 

[KingBrianI]

I don't know, something survives. You ever leave the grains in the tun for a day or two after brewing?!

 

[DeathBrewer]

Yes, but is that from within the grains or outside bacteria and yeast?

 

[KingBrianI]

The one, AND ONLY!, time I ever did it, the lid had been placed back on the cooler right after sparging. So I don't think it had any more exposure than the wort would have after sparge, probably less.

 

[flyangler18]

Didn't add yeast to the purity law till the 1800's.Good experiment ,but it sounds pretty nasty and unsanitary to me.I'll stick with beer

Brewers prior to Pasteur's 'discovery' of yeast in the 1800s certainly knew that something was responsible for fermentation, although that had the details wrong. It was understood at the time just before the publication to be a purely chemical process rather a biological one.

Still - as you've seen, I've brewed this recipe and found it to be quite good. I suggest you try one gallon recipe as I have. You'll be surprised with the results, I know I was.

Jason

 

[COLObrewer]

I don't know, something survives. You ever leave the grains in the tun for a day or two after brewing?!

Did this last week for a couple days, man was it rank, sparged it just to see what came out and, it tasted kinda like sourdour biscuits, mmmm, mmmm, good!

 

[KingBrianI]

Did this last week for a couple days, man was it rank, sparged it just to see what came out and, it tasted kinda like sourdour biscuits, mmmm, mmmm, good!

You drank it!? Go buy a lottery ticket since you aren't dead!

 

[COLObrewer]

You drank it!? Go buy a lottery ticket since you aren't dead!

Well . . . as much as I could stand:cross:

 

[TheMan]

So there is another thread about overanalyzing beer practices based on supposed simple methods of ancient brewers and it got me thinking. Then FlyAngler pops in and shows me this thread. So I decided I would like to give this a go.

Here is my idea. I want to do a no chill brew and let it ferment outside, where there is no temperature control. I will essentially be doing a normal brew process though, except I will just be doing my best guess at temps for mash and whatnot. I think I will smoke the grains in my grill first as well, this idea was mentioned earlier and I thought it was interesting. Anyone have any other ideas that I could add to this?

 

[flyangler18]

So there is another thread about overanalyzing beer practices based on supposed simple methods of ancient brewers and it got me thinking. Then FlyAngler pops in and shows me this thread. So I decided I would like to give this a go.

Here is my idea. I want to do a no chill brew and let it ferment outside, where there is no temperature control. I will essentially be doing a normal brew process though, except I will just be doing my best guess at temps for mash and whatnot. I think I will smoke the grains in my grill first as well, this idea was mentioned earlier and I thought it was interesting. Anyone have any other ideas that I could add to this?

Have you thought about what kind of base malt or hops (if any) you might use? Are you trying for a plausibly historic recipe?

 

[TheMan]

No, I'm not particularly going for a historic recipe. Mostly I would just like to make a batch that doesn't use a lot of technology...sort of how I assume they must have done it. The beer will stay on my porch until it is bottled. My Porch is blocked off well from the wind, it's kind of cave-ish. My main intentions:

Ferment outdoors, at the will of the weather.
No Chill, outdoors, they likely didn't have wort chillers back then.
I won't measure anything temperature wise...just kind of go by my own judgement.

I have been having trouble coming up with a recipe. If anyone can help me design a batch that would be somewhat time appropriate that would be cool as well. I was thinking a noble hop would be perfect, no American hops. I can't do All-Grain at my place, so it will have to be extract. I liked your oaty/wheaty/barley thought. I think I'd like to just use steeping grains however. And due to a massive 20 gallon infection last weekend I may push this recipe back behind others since that 20 gallons was supposed to cure the pipeline lag...If i can sneak it in I will, but an experimental batch isn't as important as filling the pipeline for football season.

 

[Bob]

No, I'm not particularly going for a historic recipe. Mostly I would just like to make a batch that doesn't use a lot of technology...sort of how I assume they must have done it. The beer will stay on my porch until it is bottled. My Porch is blocked off well from the wind, it's kind of cave-ish. My main intentions:

Ferment outdoors, at the will of the weather.
No Chill, outdoors, they likely didn't have wort chillers back then.
I won't measure anything temperature wise...just kind of go by my own judgement.

I have been having trouble coming up with a recipe. If anyone can help me design a batch that would be somewhat time appropriate that would be cool as well. I was thinking a noble hop would be perfect, no American hops. I can't do All-Grain at my place, so it will have to be extract. I liked your oaty/wheaty/barley thought. I think I'd like to just use steeping grains however. And due to a massive 20 gallon infection last weekend I may push this recipe back behind others since that 20 gallons was supposed to cure the pipeline lag...If i can sneak it in I will, but an experimental batch isn't as important as filling the pipeline for football season.

I like what you're after here. It ought to prove an interesting experiment.

Please permit me to correct a couple of errors, however.

First, they very well did have wort chillers "back then", just not chillers like we know them.

Until the advent of the Baudelot cooler, the most common method of cooling, even in the home, was the coolship. The coolship was simply a large, flat, shallow vessel into which the bitter wort was run. Left overnight, the extremely large surface to volume ratio encouraged more rapid cooling than could be expected in the copper or the fermenting tun. Also, pitching usually took place in the coolship before the wort was dropped to fermenting tuns.

Second, you will not be able to take advantage of the historical ingredients - wheat and oats - without performing at least a partial mash. DeathBrewer's tutorial on stovetop mashing is excellent; I can't think of a better place to start.

Recipes are going to depend on whether or not you choose to be really historical. A good basic recipe is as follows:

2 lbs pale malt
1 lb wheat malt
1 lb oat malt

Partial-mash the above; sparge to yield a pre-boil volume of three gallons or so.

Hops: I'd avoid noble varieties. Because I have yet to find an historical recipe from the pre-thermometer era which calls for flavor/aroma hops, why waste them? Do avoid strongly-flavored American hops. Choose an earthy, funky Fuggles derivative like Willamette, Styrian Goldings or, er, Fuggles. One addition - bittering. Historical recipes don't talk about IBUs, they talk about weight. I'd use around 2 ounces in five gallons. Use whole-flower hops, not pellets, for a true historical experience.

At the end of the boil, add sufficient pale extract to get an OG of ~1.050 in five gallons. Strain to cold water in the fermenter and do your back-porch thing.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

NQ3X - Thanks for all your input on this, I have learned a lot and it is good reading. It always helps to have a good handle on the history just to shoot the sh.. with people talking about home brewing.
Anyone have some ancient Egyptian or Sumerian recipes?

 

[flyangler18]

Another batch going now.

 

[KingBrianI]

Here's my scaled-down recipe, assuming a 30 minute boil. This gets me close to the percentages indicated in my first post; I just need to get the oat malt. Northern Brewer and Brewer's Warehouse both stock it.

[size=+2]Medieval Ale (Experimental)[/size]
[size=+1]23-A Specialty Beer[/size]
Author: Jason Konopinski
Date: 2/4/09



Size: 1.0 gal
Efficiency: 80%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 193.77 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.058 (1.026 - 1.120)
|=============#==================|
Terminal Gravity: 1.015 (0.995 - 1.035)
|===============#================|
Color: 4.76 (1.0 - 50.0)
|=========#======================|
Alcohol: 5.73% (2.5% - 14.5%)
|============#===================|
Bitterness: 0.0 (0.0 - 100.0)
|=======#========================|

[size=+1]Ingredients:[/size]
6 oz Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt
1.5 lb Oat Malt
6 oz Wheat Malt
.5 ea Fermentis S-04 Safale S-04

[size=+1]Schedule:[/size]

00:03:00 Mash-In - Liquor: 0.7 gal; Strike: 164.59 °F; Target: 152 °F
00:30:00 Sacc Rest - Rest: 30 min; Final: 150.0 °F
00:33:00 Sparge - Sparge: 1.0 gal sparge @ 180 °F, 0.0 min; Total Runoff: 1.47 gal

[size=-1]Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.2[/size]

I just decided on a whim to brew this up today. Actually, it wasn't so much a whim as I went to a Renaissance Faire this morning. It was....interesting. Anyway, that made me come look for this thread, and since I've nothing better to do, I'm making up a gallon of the stuff. I'm pretty much using the recipe above, though I'm not aiming for a specific mash temp. I'm BIABing this one, so I'm just going to heat the water until it looks nice and steamy, then drop the bag in and let it sit for a while. Maybe an hour and a half or two hours. Then I'm going to remove the grains, let it cool (no boil) and pitch a little washed thames valley II I have. I added just a sprinkle of chocolate malt to get the color up just slightly and perhaps get a bit of slight roastiness to better approximate the malt from way back then. I wanted to use brown malt, but sadly I'm out. I think my water is just about heated now, I'm gonna go make this thing now.

 

[KingBrianI]

Alright, bag is in the water. I let the water heat until tiny bubbles formed on the bottom of the pot and steam was billowing out wildly. I hope the temp doesn't settle too high and denature the enzymes! I heated one gallon of water, and since I'm not going to sparge or boil, I figure with whatever the grains absorb, I'll end up with a little less than a gallon so my fermenter doesn't blow off too bad. This is kind of a neat little experiment. And the best part is, there's barely going to be anything to clean up! My plan is to either drink it straight from the fermenter after 5-7 days, or once it looks like fermentation is winding down, transfer it to some swing-top bottles or something and let it sit in there a day or two before chilling to cellar temp and drinking. I'm leaning towards option 2 at this point since it will probably taste better to me and I don't think it would be that far off from what would have happened several hundred years ago. I've read many accounts of brewing that say to stop up the bung of the cask tightly before fermentation is over. Doing something similar in bottles is nearly the same. I wonder if I should sit the fermenter in the crawl space under my house to ferment?! Nah, I want to watch it.

 

[KingBrianI]

It's in the fermenter! It's a beautiful dirty, murky, mud-puddle brown. <---the beautiful part is sarcasm! I'm glad someone figured out along the way that boiling was good. Anyway, the yeast is pitched and it's on it's own now. Can't wait to try it. Although, if it smells nasty, I may need some liquid encouragement before the first sip. Regardless, it'll have been a good experiment, something I think we need more of in this community.

 

[bierhaus15]

Regardless, it'll have been a good experiment, something I think we need more of in this community.

+1 for more experimentation!

I have tried a number of historical beers over the past couple of years; my best one was a gruit ale (80% home malted barley, 20% oats, coriander, grains of paradise, and lavender) that I fermented with "yeast" I cultured from an apple tree in my backyard. The resulting liquid had a tart sourness and a very fruity taste that was a lot like pineapple. My friend liked it enough to ask for a second batch. Maybe this fall...