Mead Must Gone Bad?

[MedsenFey]

5 tsps should be enough for now.

Cooling the temp down, actually slows the fermentation; at higher temps the yeast reproduce faster, but they create harsh flavors.

I'd follow the gravity for the next couple of days to see if it picks up. My suspicion here is that the acid you added has caused the pH to be low, but if the yeast are picking up the pace, it may be okay. If they remain sluggish, you'll need those strips (or a working pH meter).

Medsen

 

[AugustDerleth]

5 tsps should be enough for now.

Cooling the temp down, actually slows the fermentation; at higher temps the yeast reproduce faster, but they create harsh flavors.

I'd follow the gravity for the next couple of days to see if it picks up. My suspicion here is that the acid you added has caused the pH to be low, but if the yeast are picking up the pace, it may be okay. If they remain sluggish, you'll need those strips (or a working pH meter).

Medsen

See, I had thought as much! I was semi-confused about the fact that typically heat causes reactions to speed up, but wanted to do what experienced brewers suggested regardless, so I cooled it down. It's good to know the why. Appreciate it.

And yeahhhh I had already added acid blend to the must by the time I joined this forum and found multiple threads advising against it.

And sounds good, I'm just going to keep checking the gravity like you suggested and hopefully I won't have to buy any more equipment (for THIS particular batch.) Thanks a lot Medsen! Seriously. :fro:

 

[AugustDerleth]

*sigh* Okay, so the gravity has been maintaining the same for the past couple days and I pitched on the 15th but the gravity seems to be far too high to rack into secondary. I pitched yeast into a blueberry mead two days ago and it's bubbling and foaming like crazy, this never happened with the traditional must. I don't want to overpitch and ruin the flavour, but the yeast just doesn't seem to be active at all. I was just going to leave it alone, but I'm starting to think maybe I should make a starter and pitch again. Would this be a mistake? Sorry again for what could be viewed as excessive posting.

 

[Pivovar_Koucky]

What's the gravity?

 

[AugustDerleth]

What's the gravity?

It's been at 1.110 for a couple days.

 

[MedsenFey]

You can try building a starter and acclimating it to the must using the instructions from Hightest's stick above (the section on restarting stuck fermentation). You'll have your best luck using a yeast that can tolerate low pH like EC-1118, or DV10. Even so, if the pH is low enough, it may still stall.

I'd encourage you to check the pH - I suspect low pH is the root of the problem.

Medsen

 

[AugustDerleth]

You can try building a starter and acclimating it to the must using the instructions from Hightest's stick above (the section on restarting stuck fermentation). You'll have your best luck using a yeast that can tolerate low pH like EC-1118, or DV10. Even so, if the pH is low enough, it may still stall.

I'd encourage you to check the pH - I suspect low pH is the root of the problem.

Medsen

Alriiiiight looks like buying pH strips. And will there be an issue with using 5 packages of D-47 then switching to two packages of DV10? As well, about what should the pH be? And iif the pH is low what can be done to rectify that? I'm going to the LHBS tomorrah so I would like to buy everything I'll need at once. Thanks! :fro:

 

[Goblet]

You might want to take a look at pg 65-66 of "The Compleat Meadmaker" for the section on pH and then fermentation problems. Anyway, it recommends adding 1/2 tsp of calcium carbonate at a time to the must, stir, and retest, until the pH is up to ~3.8

Other possible culprits the author mentions are left-over sanitizer in the fermentation bucket and using fruit juices with potassium sorbate or other stabilizers. It's a good book to get, though there are also the stickies at the top of the mead forums.

 

[MedsenFey]

If the pH is below about 3.2, it may be impairing the yeast. You can add potassium bicarbonate (preferred) or calcium carbonate (2nd choice) to bring the pH back up to at least 3.4 to give the yeast a better environment to work.

If you find the pH is too low, raising it may allow the yeast that are already in there to get back to work without having to pitch more.

If the pH is not too low, you need to repitch with acclimated yeast - DV10 being a good choice.

 

[Pivovar_Koucky]

You might also try ginning up some yeast on a less concentrated starter, like you would with beer. That way the yeast can hit the ground running. Try something like a half gallon of apple juice with no preservatives or maybe just table sugar if you are worried about flavors. Let it ferment for a day or two, then stick it in the fridge overnight, then pour out everything but the band of yeast at the bottom. Add this to your must.

 

[MedsenFey]

Just building a starter is not as good as acclimating the yeast. You can build a large starter, but if you pitch it into a really acidic must (with a very low pH), the acid will inhibit them because they are not acclimated to the conditions of the must.

If you rehydrate the yeast properly, and follow Hightest's approach to gradually add increasing amounts of the must to the yeast, you will build up a population of yeast that can tolerate the conditions of the must. When pitched, they will have much better chances for success.

Again, all this may be unnecessary if you find the problem is just that the pH needs to be adjusted upward.

Medsen

 

[AugustDerleth]

Again, all this may be unnecessary if you find the problem is just that the pH needs to be adjusted upward.

Medsen

Thanks, looks like I'm going to bite the bullet and buy some test strips and adjust if necessary. If low pH is not the case, I'll build a starter and incrementally add must to it before pitching. Thanks again! :fro:

 

[AugustDerleth]

Okay, well Medsen I never doubted you but I can tell you with absolute certainty that you were right! The pH appears to have been between 2.8 and 3.2, I got strips not a digi so can't tell exactly. I actually added 3 tsps of calcium bi (didn't have potassium), and it seems that it took it up to the 3.2 - 3.6 range so I'm hoping I may be close to 3.4. Maybe it was the calcium dissolving but there was some pretty serious bubbling and foaming as I stirred it into the must. I took this to be a good sign. I swapped the airlock for a b/o tube and shook the bucket pretty hard, there was pretty good bubbling! Thank you thank you Meds, and I'm just going to keep an eye on it and let it sit for a whiles.

Far left is the first test strip, far right is the last one.

That's the guide.
Thanks again! I believe you just saved a 5 gallon batch of traditional mead. Might call it Medsen Mead. (As long as that would be agreeable) :fro:

 

[MedsenFey]

You can only put my name on it if you are absolutely delighted with it after appropriate aging!

The rapid bubbling after adding the carbonates is just a rapid release of CO2 that occurs as the carbonates bind acid and release the CO2. It doesn't mean that the yeast are picking up steam, but hopefully you'll see them do just that over the next 24 hours. Check the gravity tomorrow to see if it is finally dropping.

 

[AugustDerleth]

Check the gravity tomorrow to see if it is finally dropping.

Alriiiiiiight!! Wells, I took another pH reading and actually needed to add another 1/2 tsp calcium. But checked the gravity and it's finally dropping! It is at about 1.106 right now. (Down from over 1.110) Not a HUGE leap, but I'm just glad to see some action at all, and now I'm just going to leave it the heck alone! I think I'll wait at least another two weeks before I even start considering racking it since I'm basically going to consider today the first day of (true) fermentation. Tastes delicious, obviously on the sweet side but has some carbonation and a pretty nice mouth-feel. I appreciate all the help and I'm done with this thread! (For now, and hopefully forever!) Un-Officially an un-stuck fermy.

 

[MedsenFey]

You might want to aerate at least one more time, and check the gravity again in 24 hours just to make sure it continues to pick up speed, but after that, leaving it alone sounds like a good plan.

 

[AugustDerleth]

You might want to aerate at least one more time, and check the gravity again in 24 hours just to make sure it continues to pick up speed, but after that, leaving it alone sounds like a good plan.

Hey Medsen, it looks like I spoke too soon and the activity has slowed after a couple days of light progress. It was odd, because for once there was a decent amount of airlock activity (bubble per 6 seconds) but the gravity isn't showing very much change. To me it sounds like time to acclimate a starter and repitch. My concern is that I've already put 5 packages of yeast in this 5 gallon batch. If I were to build a starter with two packets of D-47 would this constitute over-pitching and cause off flavours?
And could a possible alternative be to add some clean fruit to the must in order to provide more nutrients for whatever yeast are still present? Thanks!

 

[MedsenFey]

What is the gravity by the way (and make sure to de-gas the sample as the CO2 will cause inaccurate readings)?

Second question is what temperature are you maintaining?

I wouldn't worry about over pitching. That's not really an issue in mead making. However, I don't think I'd pitch more D47. If you are going to pitch something, I'd choose a yeast that is capable of tolerating an inhospitable environment. For whatever reason, this must is difficult, and if you've adjusted the pH, and corrected the factors that you can, it may be time to try another yeast. I'd consider EC-1118, or UvaFerm 43. These yeast are extremely hardy, and when acclimated, should be able to get this batch finished.

I think D47 is a fine yeast, but at this point, if it isn't getting it done, I'd change it.

Medsen

 

[AugustDerleth]

What is the gravity by the way (and make sure to de-gas the sample as the CO2 will cause inaccurate readings)?

Second question is what temperature are you maintaining?


Medsen

The gravity is holding at about 1.104. Hmm. I took a reading before stirring because I didn't want to stir if I was past the 1/3 point in fermentation, then I stirred. And did not take another reading. I'm going to stir and take a new reading but I have a feeling it will stay the same. Thanks!
The air around the must is usually at about 60-65F, and the must temperature itself was moving around from mid/high sixties to low seventies. Kind of high, but I'm having a hard time regulating the temp between air and must.

And I was thinking I should move away from D-47 but the LHBS for whatever reason has very little variety. HOWEVER, the brew shop got in yesterday some EC-1118 so I'm going to pick that and a small amount of honey up!

 

[MedsenFey]

And I was thinking I should move away from D-47 but the LHBS for whatever reason has very little variety.

Do they have any yeast other than D47? Red Star's Premier Cuvee is the same strain as EC-1118.

If D47 is all you have, then building an acclimated starter is the next step. If you have GoFerm, use it to rehydrate the yeast, and gradually step up the volume (doubling the volume each time) by adding a little of your must, and then letting it start to bubble. Try to get it up to at least 1-2 liters, and then toss them in. Keep aerating the starter along the way, and you can keep the starter at room temp to get it going.

In the meantime, aerate the snot out of the must to help any active yeast there divide faster. Your temperature should be fine for the yeast to work.

Medsen

 

[AugustDerleth]

Do they have any yeast other than D47? Red Star's Premier Cuvee is the same strain as EC-1118.

If D47 is all you have....

In the meantime, aerate the snot out of the must to help any active yeast there divide faster. Your temperature should be fine for the yeast to work.

Medsen

Turns out they just got EC-1118 in so I'm gonna grab that and a bit of honey to make a clean starter.

and I suppose you're a good person to ask, would it be wise to use an air pump with diffuser stones in the must to stir/oxygenate the must? This sounded kinda sketchy to me, but I have all the equipment so I was just wondering! Thanks Meds! Off to the LHBS I go.

 

[MedsenFey]

You can use an airstone if you have it. A little splashing with a whisk will accomplish the same aeration. You can get a higher concentration of oxygen in the must using O2 and a stone, but I don't know if that actually provides any advantage since the yeast only need about 10 ppm O2 to have complete fermentations.

You don't really need any honey for a starter. You just need to rehydrate the yeast and then start adding portions of your must.

 

[AugustDerleth]

You can use an airstone if you have it. A little splashing with a whisk will accomplish the same aeration. You can get a higher concentration of oxygen in the must using O2 and a stone, but I don't know if that actually provides any advantage since the yeast only need about 10 ppm O2 to have complete fermentations.

You don't really need any honey for a starter. You just need to rehydrate the yeast and then start adding portions of your must.

Okay I'll just stick to stirring, hopefully cut down on possible contamination.

And alright I was just going off hightest's faq for stuck ferms. Thanks Meds. :fro:

 

[MedsenFey]

Well, I won't argue with following hightest's directions.

 

[AugustDerleth]

Heh. Things have finally picked up. Gravity is moving slowly, but surely. Currently at about 1.095, Thanks!


EDIT: 10/12/10 gravity = 1.090 good lord this is moving slowly, compared to the other meads that I put on deck. >_<