MD/DC grain

[mtbiker278]

At least for the shipping it'll be $1.50 per bag for 30+ bags. Although some of the prices are kind of ridiculous, particularly for the Briess grains. Are there any other distributors of grains and such, or is that it?

I'm pricing out my order with the $1.50 shipping, but I'll likely swap out any briess grains.

What about this company? http://www.brewerssupplygroup.com/

 

[Likwid]

At least for the shipping it'll be $1.50 per bag for 30+ bags. Although some of the prices are kind of ridiculous, particularly for the Briess grains. Are there any other distributors of grains and such, or is that it?

I'm pricing out my order with the $1.50 shipping, but I'll likely swap out any briess grains.

Its a 1.50 off per bag on orders 30 plus not a 1.50 for shipping per bag. They are charging whatever they get charged for shipping.

 

[dcHokie]

Any possibility that the drought last year is a reason?

No, that is the infuriating thing about this situation. They are still offering the same original bulk rates, just not to us.

 

[Jayhem]

Its a 1.50 off per bag on orders 30 plus not a 1.50 for shipping per bag. They are charging whatever they get charged for shipping.

^^^ THIS! So they are being gracious and giving homebrewer group buys ~3% off. GEE THANKS COUNTRY MALT, HOW GENEROUS!!

The only savings now by doing a group buy is on shipping which is much cheaper per bag on a pallet than individually.

 

[bdkelly]

This is messed up. Whatever their reason, it sucks that they didn't follow through for this latest order.

Is this for all of CMG or do you think only for the Champlain region? If it's only Champlain, is there a possibility of going through Hickory?

If it comes down to it, I'm in for starting a coop. I just don't know any lawyers or accountants around here.

 

[Jayhem]

At least one good thing I can say is that I go to Hickory, NC once or twice every summer for work....will country malt sell to a customer at the homebrewer catalog prices for pickup at a distribution center? That would be pretty sweet.

 

[mtbiker278]

Its a 1.50 off per bag on orders 30 plus not a 1.50 for shipping per bag. They are charging whatever they get charged for shipping.

Ahh read that wrong.... yeah $1.50 off per bag is pretty lame discount.

 

[Likwid]

I still think there prices are competitive even with the changes (as long as your not hours from the pickup point). I can still get a bag for 50 - 55 dollars shipped compared to my next option of 65 plus. Shipping is the killer for me in any place I look.

If there was a better option I would be for it as this is a direct money squeeze against home brewers. However, void of any other option its still the best option IMO.

 

[Jayhem]

Does anyone know if country malt will sell to homebrewers for pickup AT their distribution centers to avoid paying for shipping on small quantities (like Hickory, NC)??? I can't see why not.

 

[sweetcell]

We could conceivably form a non-incorporated Co-Op. There is a unique localized need, the ability to purchase in bulk and the intent to service members rather than profit.

well, the question is: WHY did this change happen in the first place? if the LHBS put pressure on the distributor, saying "if you don't stop selling to the clubs we'll stop buying from you" (and the shops are bigger buyers than the clubs), then forming a coop won't change much - the LHBS will just get the distributor to only sell to us at the new "homebrewers" price. it would be pretty easy to tell that our coop isn't a shop or a brewery (i.e. the only two types of business they seem willing to sell wholesale to).

btw, this is pure speculation on my part - we have no proof that any shop is behind this recent change.

Does anyone know if country malt will sell to homebrewers for pickup AT their distribution centers to avoid paying for shipping on small quantities (like Hickory, NC)??? I can't see why not.

it's not the shipping that appears to be the problem, it's the selling (or more specifically the pricing). they don't want to see direct to us... for whatever reason. so my unfounded guess is that they don't want you picking up either.

 

[Jayhem]

it's not the shipping that appears to be the problem, it's the selling (or more specifically the pricing). they don't want to see direct to us... for whatever reason. so my unfounded guess is that they don't want you picking up either.

If they have a published "homebrewer" catalog pricing then I can see no reason why you couldn't pick it up at those prices from their distribution center...unless they don't accept in person customers, only sales via shipping (which seems ridiculous to me).

 

[winterc]

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I have to drive 1.5 hours to get to the homebrew shop. They aren't exactly friendly, either. It might be worth incorporating and getting a tax ID, I have a 3/4 ton truck and could make deliveries as a side business. It's time I talk to the county zoning commission. I could care less for price fixing, which is what this news amounts to. I've been saying for a while that no one on the east coast matches Austin Homebrew, Northern Brewer or Midwest on shipping or delivery time. I have 15 acres and storage to spare. I'd have to make a markup on ordering/delivering, but not 30%.

 

[socal2009]

Does anyone have any idea what the new shipping might be? I am ASSUMING $7 per bag for comparison purposes, but given the recent sudden changes in prices, I'm not sure that is a valid assumption anymore.

 

[sweetcell]

If they have a published "homebrewer" catalog pricing then I can see no reason why you couldn't pick it up at those prices from their distribution center...unless they don't accept in person customers, only sales via shipping (which seems ridiculous to me).

sorry, my bad, i misunderstood what you meant. i thought you wanted to get the old wholesale pricing.

picking up at their location seems quite plausible. if you find out, please let us know.

 

[robfar]

The shipping they will use for homebrewers is FEDEX Ground, which I'm sure is higher than the freight rate Stefin was getting.

Even though the shops will benefit, I wouldn't blame them without proof. NCM may have just realized how much money they were leaving on the table by selling at wholesale to groups of HBer's vs. what we would have to pay at 50poundsack.com or local shops.

 

[sweetcell]

Even though the shops will benefit, I wouldn't blame them without proof. NCM may have just realized how much money they were leaving on the table by selling at wholesale to groups of HBer's vs. what we would have to pay at 50poundsack.com or local shops.

another equally plausible possibility: we were paying $40 though them, but the alternative was $60 at the LHBS - so NCM saw an opportunity to capture part of that difference and jacked up their prices to $50.

now the question is, will the increase in profit per bag be offset by the loss of volume now that people won't be buying as much/as often...

 

[winterc]

another equally plausible possibility: we were paying $40 though them, but the alternative was $60 at the LHBS - so NCM saw an opportunity to capture part of that difference and jacked up their prices to $50.

At that price difference it isn't advantageous for me to drive 6 hours, round trip. I'll buy from the not-so-local HBS or have grain shipped and pay astronomical shipping costs.

 

[Olive Drab]

Unbelievable.
Stefin thanks for all that you did with the group buys.

 

[socal2009]

Good call Robfar, maybe next time I should read the top of the doc before getting all excited and scrolling down to see the prices...

So, for anyone who is interested I played around with a few shipping options just to get a feel for what the new shipping prices would be like (I am also a total excel nerd and all about calculating price per lb, so I couldn't help myself).

Plugging in shipping rates for a 55lbs package on fedex.com from Hickory, NC (the closest distribution site according to googlemaps) to Takoma Park is $27.

For comparison purposes I hopped on northern brewer and a 55lbs sack of marris otter would cost $23.84 in shipping via UPS ground and on midwestsupplies 25.19 via fedex ground. So, bottom line, it looks to me like if you are looking at bulk orders from CMG, you can add AT LEAST $20 to your order in shipping charges, which significantly changes the price per lbs from $7 a sack.

Austin Homebrew has MO for 69.99 a sack, but that is a 40 Lbs sack, and I also don't know if the flat rate shipping applies to bulk grains

 

[Olive Drab]

looks like this happened earlier but established accounts were grandfathered in https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/north-country-malt-group-stop-selling-homebrewers-191682/

I wonder if Austin Homebrew made a stink causing this?

 

[Likwid]

If shipping does increase to 20 dollars a bag then this would make it a definite bust.

there cheapest grain is 40 dollars a bag plus 20 dollars for shipping brings it to 60 dollars. Fifty pound sack sells the same type of grain for 68 with shipping.

8 dollars will not cover the cost of gas plus the need to drive to a pickup point. Not mention the work claphamsa has to do to organize all this.

 

[IslandLizard]

another equally plausible possibility: we were paying $40 though them, but the alternative was $60 at the LHBS - so NCM saw an opportunity to capture part of that difference and jacked up their prices to $50.

now the question is, will the increase in profit per bag be offset by the loss of volume now that people won't be buying as much/as often...

Indeed it looks NCM wants to capture some of the retail profit, without offering retail service. Although we're not sure if truck delivery is totally out of the question, by shifting shipping methods to Fedex (ugh!) the deal gets even less attractive. AFAIK, Fedex does not ship/deliver palleted goods, unless something changed recently.

NCM was selling us at the "2000# wholesale" rate for a private (non-business) account holder.
We don't know, what rate they're selling to LHBS for, and can be much lower than our rate, since they are retail outfits that make profit through markups. Those are called trade discounts, and usually based on volume.
Nobody in those supply chains is losing money with this change, except us, the ultimate consumer.

Does anyone know how LHBSs buy their products? They may get supplies through a distributor (network), and not even deal directly with NCM.

The co-op idea still has merit, but we need to know some more details, like shipping rates for pallet-sized orders, which could be the ultimate deal breaker if they cannot be kept within reason. Don't forget, NCM would not be paying retail shipping for Fedex either. They have negotiable leverage to receive industrial shipping rates.

 

[dcHokie]

NCM was selling us at the "2000# wholesale" rate for a private (non-business) account holder.
We don't know, what rate they're selling to LHBS for, and can be much lower than our rate, since they are retail outfits that make profit through markups. Those are called trade discounts, and usually based on volume.
Nobody in those supply chains is losing money with this change, except us, the ultimate consumer.

Does anyone know how LHBSs buy their products? They may get supplies through a distributor (network), and not even deal directly with NCM.

We were paying the wholesale prices, there was no distinction in pricing until today when they instituted homebrewer rates.

There are volume discounts when ordering multiple pallets, but we had the wholesale price list and they were the exact same prices that breweries and homebrew shops paid/pay for bagged malt in bulk. And they do deal directly with NCM.

 

[claphamsa]

****ing pissed! Im willing to host a coop... but, sounds like a lot of work. cant imagine paying retail for grain.

in the end, even the higher prices are worth it for me.

I will support anything anyone can do but in the end...these ****ers suck.

some people asked why this happened, its not a shock. they got bought out a year ago, and tightened. they have long treated customers like ****. its national, not just local homebrew stores.

 

[IslandLizard]

We were paying the wholesale prices, there was no distinction in pricing until today when they instituted homebrewer rates.

There are volume discounts when ordering multiple pallets, but we had the wholesale price list and they were the exact same prices that breweries and homebrew shops paid/pay for bagged malt in bulk. And they do deal directly with NCM.

Well, often there is wholesale and then there's wholesale. In many industries there are additional "trade discounts" on listed prices. Again, usually based on volume, or clever negotiations. There are also perks, like free shipping when ordering above $xx,xxx, etc. Not that we would ever qualify for any of them.

I see the discounts for larger orders/multiple pallets, yes. We're talking pennies a pound there.

Looks like we're going to be paying retail pricing one way or another, unless we distinguish ourselves from "Home Brewers."

 

[IslandLizard]

...in the end, even the higher prices are worth it for me....

That's the spirit! Too bad we can't pass the extra cost on to someone else, or tap smaller beers.

 

[claphamsa]

That's the spirit! Too bad we can't pass the extra cost on to someone else, or tap smaller beers.

I wanna ask the ******* EEOC lawyer if i have a case.... but im sure i dont (dont ask)

think ill start a new thread, if we can COOP great, if not... still worth it (for me)

 

[claphamsa]

also, I have a ton of carapils and other ****, but no basemalts! ****

 

[stonebrewer]

Stefin hang in there bud! I have some shipping contacts that we might be able to use. What if, instead of 42 or 84 bags, we go large less often? I am thinking 200 bags plus? I will ask my shipper how much to deliver and we can dangle a large shipment in front of them to see if they bite. I am willing to buy a years worth of grain or close to it in order to get our discount back! There has got to be a way to get those jerk**** to allow us back in the game. If not, we need to work other angles like nano's or the like. I am sure we can find a way. Keep the faith!

 

[Likwid]

Getting a tin does not cost anything. If you make zero profit you fill out a schedule c and add it to your 1040. It comes out to 0 so nothing changes.