Mashed too high - FG 1.021 - Any yeast suggestions to dry it out?

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CanAm

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I made a Brown ale OG 1.059 which ended at 1.021. When making this I underlet (filled my mash tun from the bottom when it was full of my grain) at 165 and ran my RIMS tube at 154. Used US-05 in my fermentation chamber set to 66F.

I also made a Porter with the same process that had an OG of 1.070 and FG of 1.022. But that sort of works

So with two consecutive batches made with the same process and both ending over 1.020 I don't think it's a stalled fermentation but a matter of mashing too high.

This is different from my normal process which is to underlet at 161 and run my RIMS tube at 152. These temps consistently result in FG ranging from 1.008-1.012

Q1: Is there any yeast I can add to the brown ale to dry it out? If not this will be the first beer I'll dump.

Q2: It is currently kegged and carbed (I know, I should have checked the FG first!) Is there anything else except depressurizing the keg for a couple weeks that I need to do before adding the yeast?

Thanks!
 
CanAm said:
I made a Brown ale OG 1.059 which ended at 1.021. When making this I underlet (filled my mash tun from the bottom when it was full of my grain) at 165 and ran my RIMS tube at 154. Used US-05 in my fermentation chamber set to 66F.

I also made a Porter with the same process that had an OG of 1.070 and FG of 1.022. But that sort of works

So with two consecutive batches made with the same process and both ending over 1.020 I don't think it's a stalled fermentation but a matter of mashing too high.

This is different from my normal process which is to underlet at 161 and run my RIMS tube at 152. These temps consistently result in FG ranging from 1.008-1.012

Q1: Is there any yeast I can add to the brown ale to dry it out? If not this will be the first beer I'll dump.

Q2: It is currently kegged and carbed (I know, I should have checked the FG first!) Is there anything else except depressurizing the keg for a couple weeks that I need to do before adding the yeast?

Thanks!
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The mash temp controls the amount of fermentable sugars in your wort. A stalled fermentation can be the direct result of a high mash temp (which looks like the case in your situation).

No yeast will help you. If its unfermentable, it's unfermentable. Brett or lacto might help you if you want to sour it, but there's not much else you can do. Adding hops and drinking it would probably be my choice, 1.02 is very drinkable in many styles, but if you would rather dump it, that's your call/money.
 
I guess it is a stalled fermentation as it's no longer fermenting!

Sounds like hop tea to try and balance it out a bit. I'll take a pass on the brett.

Unless anyone knows of an enzyme that may break things down and then try fermenting again.
 
CanAm said:
I guess it is a stalled fermentation as it's no longer fermenting!



Sounds like hop tea to try and balance it out a bit. I'll take a pass on the brett.



Unless anyone knows of an enzyme that may break things down and then try fermenting again.
Click to expand...


You could try reheating to 145 and adding amylase enzyme, but I have no idea how it will react with the alcohol.
 
CanAm said:
I guess it is a stalled fermentation as it's no longer fermenting!

Sounds like hop tea to try and balance it out a bit. I'll take a pass on the brett.

Unless anyone knows of an enzyme that may break things down and then try fermenting again.
Click to expand...

Not technically correct. A stalled fermentation means that fermentation has stopped but there are still fermentable sugars present. Rousing or pitching additional yeast will restart a stalled fermentation.

I have read about amylase enzyme but seen read that it is a tricky solution. You may go way beyond target FG and get a beer that is just as bad as a sweet beer but on the extremely dry side of the equation.
 
kh54s10 said:
Not technically correct. A stalled fermentation means that fermentation has stopped but there are still fermentable sugars present. Rousing or pitching additional yeast will restart a stalled fermentation.



I have read about amylase enzyme but seen read that it is a tricky solution. You may go way beyond target FG and get a beer that is just as bad as a sweet beer but on the extremely dry side of the equation.
Click to expand...


Which brewing dictionary are you referencing for the technical definition of stalled fermentation?

After several Google's to double check myself...A stalled/stuck fermentation is any fermentation that stops at a higher than anticipated final gravity. No matter the reason.

Amylase enzyme can only dry the beer out as much as it would have at a lower mash temperature. Its the same enzyme the barley uses during conversion. If your statement is true, then a beer mashed at 145 overnight will result in an undrinkable swill with a FG around 1.000. Since overnight mashing is fairly common, this obviously isn't the case.

It won't tank your FG because it can only convert long chain polysaccharides into short chain polysaccharides and monosaccarides but those aren't the only things contributing to specific gravity in beer. Amylase can only do so much.
 
My neighbor has been asking for a beer line run over to his house. I might start with this...
 
If you mashed too high then you mashed too high, but you could try white labs wlp099. It's meant for high gravity brews, ando over heard of brewers using it to dry out. I don't have personal experience, but heard of this at a brewers class at Cal Poly Pomona
 
CanAm said:
How much beano would you recommend? Have you tried this before?
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Amylase is a better choice than Beano. I have heard that Beano gives more unpredictable results than amylase. You can add the amylase at normal fermentation temps. It just works a lot slower there than at normal mash temps (days instead of minutes.) As @TheMadKing says, amylase self limits because it cannot chop the limit dextrines into fermentable chunks, and it's the limit dextrines that will determine your FG and residual sweetness.

Brew on :mug:
 
Stalled fermentation is not some cryptic term. It is pretty literal. If a fermentation stalls, it is because you did a poor job preparing the yeast for the job (under pitching, high temp, no oxygenation, etc.).

If you mash high and fermentation does not proceed to produce an apparent attenuation you wanted AS A DIRECT RESULT, that is not a stall. That is correct fermentation of the wort you produced and the fermentation you initiated.
 
Mer-man said:
Stalled fermentation is not some cryptic term. It is pretty literal. If a fermentation stalls, it is because you did a poor job preparing the yeast for the job (under pitching, high temp, no oxygenation, etc.).

If you mash high and fermentation does not proceed to produce an apparent attenuation you wanted AS A DIRECT RESULT, that is not a stall. That is correct fermentation of the wort you produced and the fermentation you initiated.
Click to expand...

I thought this was the case but I wasn't sure of the terminology. In this case because I mashed too high the yeast did all they could and did not stall. Thanks for clarifying the difference between the two.
 
Belle Saison and 3711 always finish very dry. I suspect that a big pitch of one of these could drop your gravity a couple points.
 
Drink it - move on with your next batch! Don't throw any more effort into it. Perhaps bottle it and let it condition in there for a few months, but I wouldn't waste any more time on it.
 
TheMadKing said:
Which brewing dictionary are you referencing for the technical definition of stalled fermentation?

After several Google's to double check myself...A stalled/stuck fermentation is any fermentation that stops at a higher than anticipated final gravity. No matter the reason.

Amylase enzyme can only dry the beer out as much as it would have at a lower mash temperature. Its the same enzyme the barley uses during conversion. If your statement is true, then a beer mashed at 145 overnight will result in an undrinkable swill with a FG around 1.000. Since overnight mashing is fairly common, this obviously isn't the case.

It won't tank your FG because it can only convert long chain polysaccharides into short chain polysaccharides and monosaccarides but those aren't the only things contributing to specific gravity in beer. Amylase can only do so much.
Click to expand...
"Overnight mashing is fairly commmon"? Where is that true? I've only heard of this when brewing in Fairbanks, AL during the summer solstice
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't some corn sugar dry it out? If you don't mind the extra abv...
 
I'd just hit it with enough of table sugar to return the ABV where you were shooting for and then let that ferment out. The additional alcohol from that should reduce the body sightly back to where it supposed to be and let it ride.
 
NickersonC said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't some corn sugar dry it out? If you don't mind the extra abv...
Click to expand...

Corn sugar would raise the SG, fermentation would restart, it would increase alcohol content and return to the same level of unfermentable sugars. So the FG would be slightly lower, but I doubt that the perceived dryness would change. This is the same thing as adding vodka to your beer.
 
SeanFawcett said:
Above what temperature is considered "too high" in this case?
Click to expand...

It's a gradient from about 145 to about 160 (the higher the temp, the less fermentable), but beta amylase actually denatures around 165 I believe. Anything higher than that and you'll have almost a completely unfermentable wort.

based on the FG of 1.021 alone, if I had to guess... I would guess a mash temp of 158
 
I'm solidly in the camp of never tossing but keg hopping to change...I have salvaged a couple very "off" batches into very drinkable beer... both mine have turned out tasting like a Hefeweizen .I Used 3oz of hops in one and 1 1/2 in another. Both ended up about the same..probably due to the fact that 3 oz of hops is way to much for a 3 1/2" round tea ball type basket and ended up packed hard limiting transfer of flavors.
 
If you want to put a fair amount of work into salvaging it, I think the best way to make it more palatable is to brew an equal sized beer that you intentionally dry out too much. Hop it per your normal recipe and you should have an over-attenuated beer that tastes thin and bitter to blend with your under attenuated beer that is too cloying.

On the one hand you might end up "wasting" a second batch. On the other hand, it will help you understand the "extremes" of fermentability that you can produce with this recipe/process combo (which should help you find the middle on the third attempt).
 
While mash temp does dictate the amount of fermentable sugars it doesn't dictate the amount of sugars the yeast can eat. Different yeast attenuate more than others. Belgian yeast can ferment up to 85% and Brett can go even higher. British yeast often leave the beer maltier and attenuate much less.

I'll dealing with this exact problem right now. Brewed a milk Stout with 1.5 lbs lactose. Yes, I know this isn't fermentable but should only add 4 or 5 points to the final gravity in a 10 gallon batch

SG - 1.069
FG - 1.027
EFG - 1.021

I have a HERMS system and I know I was exactly at 154. I actually got 4 points more than expected ... yes!

Pitched Omega Yeast British VII after a 3l starter. I (Should) have had plenty of yeast... It's expected attenuation is 67% - 71%. But, who knows. I'm not a microbiologist and don't have correct yeast counts.

My ferm temp got up to 75° in a 67° basement. Yikes! They might have decided to quit due to temp...

I'm at 14 days and haven't seen a gravity drop in a week. So, instead of trying all sorts of enzymes, or adding sugar to dry it out, I'm going to try a higher attentuating yeast.

Omega West Coast Ale is 73% - 80%. More than the British VII.

I'm going to do a 1l starter and pitch at high kreusen. I'm hoping this will be enough to let the the yeast finish the job. Plus, most of the fermentation is done so I shouldn't get any yeast character from the new yeast.

I'll post an update in a few days!
 
Last edited:
Add a 100% fermentable sugar and water. The water along with alcohol produced will bring down the gravity. If you get the ratios right you could hit your original ABV and gravity targets and, bonus you will have more beer.
 
Go to a big box store, buy a few gallons of cheap apple juice maybe add some sugar, then add the yeast and ferment until dry. You can let it age or use it right away, depends on your taste. Do some blending trials to see if you can make an OK tasting drink with the cider and the ale. Not sure how good it will be, but you'll have an apple ale.
 
UPDATE on my post below..

Pitched 250ml of a 2L saison starter. Waited 5 days. My new gravity is 1.019!

So, here is some info

Omega British VII
SG - 1.069
FG - 1.027

250ml Saisonstien's Monster (82% Attenuation)
SG - 1.027
FS - 1.019

Personally, I should have pitched American Ale and I probably would gotten my 1.022 desired Final Gravity. But 1.019 is still pretty solid.

Because the saison yeast was pitched with so little sugars left the yeast never went through a large replication phase, which is where most of the esters are produced. So, this beer still tastes distinctly English Porter

Hope this update helps. Fementation is more than just about mash temp and sugars. Yeast type plays a large part in how much sugar is fermented.

:mug:

1971hemicuda said:
While mash temp does dictate the amount of fermentable sugars it doesn't dictate the amount of sugars the yeast can eat. Different yeast attenuate more than others. Belgian yeast can ferment up to 85% and Brett can go even higher. British yeast often leave the beer maltier and attenuate much less.

I'll dealing with this exact problem right now. Brewed a milk Stout with 1.5 lbs lactose. Yes, I know this isn't fermentable but should only add 4 or 5 points to the final gravity in a 10 gallon batch

SG - 1.069
FG - 1.027
EFG - 1.021

I have a HERMS system and I know I was exactly at 154. I actually got 4 points more than expected ... yes!

Pitched Omega Yeast British VII after a 3l starter. I (Should) have had plenty of yeast... It's expected attenuation is 67% - 71%. But, who knows. I'm not a microbiologist and don't have correct yeast counts.

My ferm temp got up to 75° in a 67° basement. Yikes! They might have decided to quit due to temp...

I'm at 14 days and haven't seen a gravity drop in a week. So, instead of trying all sorts of enzymes, or adding sugar to dry it out, I'm going to try a higher attentuating yeast.

Omega West Coast Ale is 73% - 80%. More than the British VII.

I'm going to do a 1l starter and pitch at high kreusen. I'm hoping this will be enough to let the the yeast finish the job. Plus, most of the fermentation is done so I shouldn't get any yeast character from the new yeast.

I'll post an update in a few days!
Click to expand...
 

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