Mash Hop FAILURE

[SwampassJ]

A few weeks ago I made a Vienna Armarillo SMASH and decided to mash hop it in place of flavor and aroma hops.

With the German Ale yeast this came out as clean tasting as any ale I have ever had (still in secondary for conditioning/clearing) but it is one dimensional bitterness that hides all of the malt flavor and makes it just bleh in terms of enjoyment.

Would dry hopping or making a 5-10 minute hop tea save this? I have some cascade to throw onto it, or even Saaz since it is so neutral tasting at the moment.

10lb Vienna
3oz Armarillo Mash hopped
1 oz @ 60 minutes (7.9%)
Wyeast 1007 German Ale yeast.

I just want to add some kind of aroma or flavor to it and chalk this up to a good learning experience to either use more mash hops and less bittering or don't bother kind of thing.

 

[smizak]

I've heard nasty things about dry hopping with Saaz.

Amarillo + Cascade = Win, dry hop it with the Cascade.

 

[devilishprune]

If its a smash, why not dry hop with amarillo? Also, did you do FWH or mash hopping? I was wondering about mash hopping, and how it even gets bitterness into your brew?

 

[randomsample]

I also vote Amarillo or Cascade. My most recent IPA tasted very similar to your description pre-dry hopping, but turned out great (despite my fears). Definitely dry hop.

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

I always thought FWH and mash hopping was meant to replace the bittering additions, not the flavor/aroma additions.

 

[NorCalAngler]

The question posed by the OP is if dry hopping will save his brew because "it is one dimensional bitterness that hides all of the malt flavor."

I'm not sure how dry hopping would do anything to help since the OP seems to want some malt presence to come through. If it's too bitter and one dimensional I guess dry hopping will add another dimension, but if it's already bitter hop water it may make it even worse.

 

[randomsample]

I'm not sure how dry hopping would do anything to help since the OP seems to want some malt presence to come through. If it's too bitter and one dimensional I guess dry hopping will add another dimension, but if it's already bitter hop water it may make it even worse.

One would think so, but that wasn't my experience. Bitterness is good in a highly hopped beer, but "bitterness" as commonly described usually includes a lot of hop flavor. My non brewing friends describe something like Bells Two Hearted as extremely bitter, when it's really just got a ton of aroma hops. I think dry hopping will balance the beer back out flavor wise.

 

[david_42]

I think you'll need both the hop tea and dry hopping. In my experience, dry hopping cannot compensate for a lack of hop flavor.

 

[SwampassJ]

It's going to have to be cascade then. I'm not willing to pay 2.50 an ounce and a 40 minute drive or to order more in bulk when I still have almost 2lbs of assorted hops in my freezer.

I'll take any extra hop aroma or flavor to balance at this point just to save it and make it drinkable.

 

[VanHolton]

I've heard nasty things about dry hopping with Saaz.

This is absolutely true. Don't do it. Unless you want to waste some hops.... or wait 3 months for your beer to be drinkable again.

 

[piteko]

SwampassJ, if I understood well, the question is how to compensate the bittering adding flavor and aroma. But, in my experience, bittering in bottle conditioning lowers a while on the long run (6 to 12 months). So I would let the beer age without risking what smizak and VanHolton said about saaz dry hopping (even if I once used saaz and other two hops to make a combined dry hopping and tasted really good).

Cheers from Italy
piteko

 

[HickoryMike]

Was there a reason you didn't add any late hop additions? I don't know much about mash hopping, but I would expect a beer with no flavor additions to be, well, lacking in flavor.

Dry hop with Amarillo....that's my vote.